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Big Guy

Liberal Tax Plan

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Typical socialist BS . To hell with the people that worked hard to make this country great, compared to the last ass ones that are sitting around enjoying life on the rest of us. I am not a millionaire or close to it, but I see enough of the lazy. Like today asa spot O was at and there was 5 young fit men all on welfare siting in the sun drinking pints.

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I say good riddance to all these poor millionaires and billionaires. They talk as if everything they have ever acquired they did so alone.

Everything I've acquired was on my own. But that's neither here nor there insofar as your jealousy goes. The new 'wealth' tax is on income. "Millionaires and Billionaires" don't get much money from 'income'. Their money comes through investments. The people who will be forced to pay more are not the corporate CEOs you seem to despise, but doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, consultants, and others who are, for the most part, self-made. Oh, they might have inherited money? Well, but that's not income and not affected either. Same goes for the "millionaires and billionaires' who have accountants and tax lawyers up the yin-yang to make sure that on paper they have very little income.

What a joke! I have been in management positions for over 25 years and have witnessed the cold and calculating work of these responsible citizens.

A global market place has afforded them opportunities to out source overseas for pennies and they have done this quite well to the detriment of the very country that afforded them this opportunity.

I understand the complaint. But the answer is to refine the tax code and ensure that whatever business they do here is taxed here, regardless of where their 'corporate headquarters' are, or where they reside. The answer is also to make this a good place to do business. For example, Magna won't build any more auto plants in Ontario. Why not? Because the ever increasing cost of energy makes it more profitable to locate them elsewhere. Does the Ontario Liberal party care? Not in the slightest. In fact, they've already announced their intention to make energy even more expensive in Ontario. What does that do to their manufacturing base? Nothing good, I assure you.

Edited by Argus

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Everything I've acquired was on my own. But that's neither here nor there insofar as your jealousy goes. The new 'wealth' tax is on income. "Millionaires and Billionaires" don't get much money from 'income'. Their money comes through investments. The people who will be forced to pay more are not the corporate CEOs you seem to despise, but doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, consultants, and others who are, for the most part, self-made. Oh, they might have inherited money? Well, but that's not income and not affected either. Same goes for the "millionaires and billionaires' who have accountants and tax lawyers up the yin-yang to make sure that on paper they have very little income.

The only reason accountants and lawyers can take so much advantage is because the playing field has been tilted towards their clients by lawmakers in power...presumably their clients spend their tax savings on lobbying the people in power to keep things this way and help them acquire even more wealth. That's what people are really jealous of or should be, and I doubt many will have too much problem with processing accountants, lawyers and lobbyists alongside the lawmakers when their jealousy finally turns to rage and they start rolling out the guillotines.

The problem isn't wealth it's power, maybe there's some way we can put a tax on that.

Edited by eyeball

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The funny thing about this is that people are decrying the Liberal tax plan as unfair, but then the TFSA contribution limit increase is just perfectly reasonable...

As Harper would have it, people who can contribute $10,000/year to their TFSA's are middle-class families...Except middle-class incomes are ~$53,000/year...and these families cannot afford to put 20% of their pre-tax income to their TFSA's...so....

So who benefits from this exactly? The wealthy. It's a tax-cut for the wealthy and woe to anyone who tries to give the average guy a break.

The word-mongering and optics going on here is pretty delusional.

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The TFSA contribution increase is aimed at rich old people. They vote. It's nothing but politics. I'm actually very intrigued by Trudeau's tax plan, but I'm not ready to say I'd support him at the moment.

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The TFSA contribution increase is aimed at rich old people. They vote. It's nothing but politics.

The elderly are the majority account holders across Canada, but most far from "rich".......the draw for the elderly (and those nearing retirement) is that interest earned in a TFSA, nor withdrawals, effect eligibility for income tested benefits like OAS and GIS.

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The TFSA contribution increase is aimed at rich old people. They vote. It's nothing but politics. I'm actually very intrigued by Trudeau's tax plan, but I'm not ready to say I'd support him at the moment.

I wouldn't normally. I still hold that Trudeau Senior is the worst Prime Minister we've ever had (by a long shot), but Harper's done absolutely nothing to impress me over the last 4 years. What I used to think was just solid pragmatism is turning out to be total sheisterism. There's no arguing at this point that his policies aren't aiming to benefit the well-off first and everyone else second, and he drives this agenda home with sleazy political ads that appeal to the unintelligent.

The elderly are the majority account holders across Canada, but most far from "rich".......the draw for the elderly (and those nearing retirement) is that interest earned in a TFSA, nor withdrawals, effect eligibility for income tested benefits like OAS and GIS.

The interest earned in TFSA's right now is next to nothing. Old folk's aren't using their TFSA's for income either. They all had RSP's and RIF's set up long before the TFSA program started. Only the well-off elderly have 10k/year to put into TFSA's, and all they're using it for is to invest in stocks and mutal/segregated funds tax-free.

Edited by Moonbox

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I'm not impressed with him either. The problem is that I'm less impressed with anyone else. Expensive daycare programs aren't what I want to see. Those are provincial areas of concern.

I would argue though, that income splitting doesn't only benefit the rich (even though it doesn't benefit me). It's kind of a mixed bag at this point. His policies are designed to help the people that vote for him or have a good chance of voting for him...that's how simple it is.

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The word-mongering and optics going on here is pretty delusional.

So I'm wealthy? Gee, I better call the chauffeur and have the limo brought around so I can hop on over to the club to celebrate...

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The TFSA contribution increase is aimed at rich old people. They vote. It's nothing but politics. I'm actually very intrigued by Trudeau's tax plan, but I'm not ready to say I'd support him at the moment.

It’s not just high-income Canadians who appear to have maxed out their TFSA, which offers a life-time exemption from taxes on any investment gains. Right across the income spectrum, significant percentages of Canadians appear poised to benefit from the increase in contribution limits.

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/tfsa/exclusive-canadians-maxing-out-their-tfsas-from-all-walks-of-life?__lsa=e2f3-0d4b

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It’s not just high-income Canadians who appear to have maxed out their TFSA, which offers a life-time exemption from taxes on any investment gains. Right across the income spectrum, significant percentages of Canadians appear poised to benefit from the increase in contribution limits.

I should have just said old people lol.

Seriously though, I spend every extra penny paying off debt. Before I met my fiancee, I was on track to be debt free in a year. Now, after having to go to Winnipeg to see her for over a year (thank goodness that's over) I'm about 2 years from that goal (with her help). I don't have money to put in a TFSA.

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So I'm wealthy? Gee, I better call the chauffeur and have the limo brought around so I can hop on over to the club to celebrate...

You've done enough humble-bragging about your tax bracket etc over the years that you'll have to excuse us if we might have believed you.

It’s not just high-income Canadians who appear to have maxed out their TFSA, which offers a life-time exemption from taxes on any investment gains. Right across the income spectrum, significant percentages of Canadians appear poised to benefit from the increase in contribution limits.

Let's get real for a second Argus. Even you know that's a hack article.

"Of the over 28 million Canadians over 18 according to StatCan, 7% of Canadians eligible for TFSAs have maxed out their room."

So at a $5500 limit, only 7% of Canadians were using it. As the limit increases to $10,000, that percentage will drop dramatically.

Edited by Moonbox

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You've done enough humble-bragging about your tax bracket etc over the years that you'll have to excuse us if we might have believed you.

The only reasons I mention my tax bracket are A) to point out that people in high tax brackets pay masses of taxes already and B) to point out that your concept of "wealthy' is absurd. Maybe I'm being pedantic, but I kind of believe in the Chris Rock explanation, that NBA players are rich, but the billionaire owner who tosses them their pennies is wealthy. Oprah is rich. Bill Gates is wealthy. Get it?

And on that scale which I consider to be extremely reasonable, I'm not even close to being rich, let alone wealthy. People talk about "The 1%" controlling the politicians and all, but don't seem to realize that it's more like the .001%. Most 1%ers are not rich, and do not even know any politicians. They're professionals who have a relatively rare skillset that is in demand, and that skillset usually took a helluva lot of effort to learn and develop.

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I should have just said old people lol.

Seriously though, I spend every extra penny paying off debt. Before I met my fiancee, I was on track to be debt free in a year. Now, after having to go to Winnipeg to see her for over a year (thank goodness that's over) I'm about 2 years from that goal (with her help). I don't have money to put in a TFSA.

When I was thirty five my net worth was as closer to zero as to make no difference. Owning a car was way beyond my means. My income was pitifully low. Stuff often changes over time, with persistent effort and a little bit of luck.

Edited by Argus

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I make a lot of money. My fiancee makes a little bit of money. Even so, it takes a long time to climb out of a hole.

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The only reasons I mention my tax bracket are A) to point out that people in high tax brackets pay masses of taxes already and B) to point out that your concept of "wealthy' is absurd.

My concept is based on relative numbers and facts. Yours is based on:

"...NBA players are rich, but the billionaire owner who tosses them their pennies is wealthy. Oprah is rich. Bill Gates is wealthy.."

Which is more absurd?

And on that scale which I consider to be extremely reasonable, I'm not even close to being rich, let alone wealthy.

No offense intended, but what you personally consider rich or wealthy is entirely irrelevant.

They're professionals who have a relatively rare skillset that is in demand, and that skillset usually took a helluva lot of effort to learn and develop.

No doubt, but your logic suggests a whole bunch of things that simply aren't true. Among them are:

1) That taxing an extra 4% of their income annually somehow makes those MBA/LLB/CPA/Md's not worth it now (as if they wouldn't have pursued them otherwise)

2) That everyone in the top 5-10 percentiles "earned" it

3) That people in the middle and lower income classes all have the same opportunity

Edited by Moonbox

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The interest earned in TFSA's right now is next to nothing. Old folk's aren't using their TFSA's for income either. They all had RSP's and RIF's set up long before the TFSA program started. Only the well-off elderly have 10k/year to put into TFSA's, and all they're using it for is to invest in stocks and mutal/segregated funds tax-free.

I suppose rates are subjective, through my bank (CIBC) I earn 2-1.75%, with maxing out annually since its inception, I currently earn more on interest alone then I would receive as a refund at the top of Trudeau's new 20% bracket.....

If someone earning 88k (the high end of the Trudeau bracket) a year can't save 10% of their income ($8800 a year) for retirement, they should seek the help of a financial adviser or develop a taste for cat food.

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I suppose rates are subjective, through my bank (CIBC) I earn 2-1.75%, with maxing out annually since its inception, I currently earn more on interest alone then I would receive as a refund at the top of Trudeau's new 20% bracket.....

So your TFSA, at best, covers you for inflation (but probably hasn't since 2010). If you're getting more out of 1-2% interest than you would from Trudeau's tax cuts, that's because you're in a higher tax bracket and congratulations to you.

If someone earning 88k (the high end of the Trudeau bracket) a year can't save 10% of their income ($8800 a year) for retirement, they should seek the help of a financial adviser or develop a taste for cat food.

Small problem: Someone making $88,000/year only has ~$66,000 in net income. A $10,000 contribution limit is therefore more than 15% of their take-home and I can tell you for a fact that virtually nobody is putting that sort of money away each year.

Edited by Moonbox

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Let's get real for a second Argus. Even you know that's a hack article.

"Of the over 28 million Canadians over 18 according to StatCan, 7% of Canadians eligible for TFSAs have maxed out their room."

So at a $5500 limit, only 7% of Canadians were using it. As the limit increases to $10,000, that percentage will drop dramatically.

Reread the article:

The CRA documents show that of the 10.7 million TFSA holders in the country, as of 2013, almost 1.9 million, or 17%, had contributed the maximum to their account. Of the over 28 million Canadians over 18 according to StatCan, 7% of Canadians eligible for TFSAs have maxed out their room

Of those 18 and older Canadians, how many are unemployed, on welfare, working at McDonalds, in prison, receive a pension from work etc......hence can't or have no need to plan for their own retirement?

Furthermore:

“TFSAs are primarily used by low and middle income Canadians, and by seniors. Of those who maxed out their TFSA, 60 per cent earn less than $60,000. By cancelling the doubling of TFSAs, Justin Trudeau is increasing taxes on these middle income Canadians. Doubling TFSA contribution limits makes saving for retirement easier. The Liberal position is yet another example of Justin Trudeau’s high tax, high debt agenda,” said a Conservative Party source.

The CRA stats show 267,000 Canadians who make less than $20,000 had contributed the maximum and 1.1 million Canadians making less than $60,000 were also contributing the maximum to their TFSA.

I do truly hope the Trudeau Liberals highlight their plan to claw back the TFSA limits from the middle income Canadians and the elderly........Inversely, I hope the Tories highlight that a Canadian earning 75k a year will receive a tax refund worth ~$500-600 from Trudeau, a sum less then what they can earn in annual interest by investing 10% of their income in a TFSA or what they can benefit from income splitting.......

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So your TFSA, at best, covers you for inflation (but probably hasn't since 2010). If you're getting more out of 1-2% interest than you would from Trudeau's tax cuts, that's because you're in a higher tax bracket and congratulations to you.

That is true, both my wife and I are in higher brackets (and won't benefit from Trudeau's plan or income splitting), but I fail to see how the higher end of the current 22 bracket (to be reduced under Trudeau) benefit more under Trudeau's "plan"

Small problem: Someone making $88,000/year only has ~$66,000 in net income. A $10,000 contribution limit is therefore more than 15% of their take-home and I can tell you for a fact that virtually nobody is putting that sort of money away each year.

Yet from above:

The CRA stats show 267,000 Canadians who make less than $20,000 had contributed the maximum and 1.1 million Canadians making less than $60,000 were also contributing the maximum to their TFSA.

So ~1.4 million Canadians are virtually nobody?

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Of those 18 and older Canadians, how many are unemployed, on welfare, working at McDonalds, in prison, receive a pension from work etc......hence can't or have no need to plan for their own retirement?

I don't know, do you? Are you trying to suggest that all of the folks who don't have TFSA's are total deadbeats? If so, could provide some background figures to support that?

I do truly hope the Trudeau Liberals highlight their plan to claw back the TFSA limits from the middle income Canadians and the elderly........

Middle income Canadians don't have $10,000 to contribute. The elderly are already mostly voting Conservative. Not much for Trudeau to lose there but potentially a lot to gain.

Inversely, I hope the Tories highlight that a Canadian earning 75k a year will receive a tax refund worth ~$500-600 from Trudeau,

That's $500-600 they could put towards their debt or the TFSA they're not currently utilizing.

a sum less then what they can earn in annual interest by investing 10% of their income in a TFSA or what they can benefit from income splitting.......

At today's interest rates, it would take over 10 years of maxed TFSA contributions for the interest to offset the tax refund on someone at that level of income. All of this, of course, ignores even with this decent wage most wouldn't be able afford $10/year. As for income splitting, I imagine all of the duo-income families voting Liberal will more than cover the relatively few income-splitters who might take offense.

Case in point for how much of a hack-job that Post article was:

"The CRA stats show 267,000 Canadians who make less than $20,000 had contributed the maximum and 1.1 million Canadians making less than $60,000 were also contributing the maximum to their TFSA."

From direct experience (I'm a financial planner), I can tell you that the vast majority of these people are stay-at-home spouses and/or have husbands/wives that make great money. It's not people struggling to get by as the National Joke or the Conservatives would have you believe.

Edited by Moonbox

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From direct experience (I'm a financial planner), I can tell you that the vast majority of these people are stay-at-home spouses with husbands/wives that make great money. It's not people struggling to get by as the National Joke or the Conservatives would have you believe.

What's with this endlessly repeated cliche of people "struggling to get by" anyway? The vast majority of Canadians have no firsthand experience with what the word "struggle" actually even means. The biggest struggle most Canadians have ever faced was having to stay up a bit late to study for a test, or having to work hard for a few weeks submitting resumes and going to interviews, or being passed by an overcrowded bus on the way to an appointment they're running late for. Freaking whiners.

Edited by Bonam

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What's with this endlessly repeated cliche of people "struggling to get by" anyway?

It's a relative term. It doesn't really matter either way and the rest of what you're saying here is just a red herring.

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It's a relative term. It doesn't really matter either way and the rest of what you're saying here is just a red herring.

Relative compared to what? Point me to all these masses of struggling middle class Canadians please.

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I don't know, do you? Are you trying to suggest that all of the folks who don't have TFSA's are total deadbeats? If so, could provide some background figures to support that?

Not deadbeats, but those (as stated) that aren't saving for retirement.

Middle income Canadians don't have $10,000 to contribute. The elderly are already mostly voting Conservative. Not much for Trudeau to lose there but potentially a lot to gain.

Yet over a million Canadians earning less than 60K a year are maxing out their TFSA........A lot to gain? What percent of Canadians are earning less than ~44000 a year, the bar to receive any benefits from Trudeau's changing bracket?

That's $500-600 they could put towards their debt or the TFSA they're not currently utilizing.

Couldn't the same apply to those that would benefit from income splitting and increased TFSA limits?

At today's interest rates, it would take over 10 years of maxed TFSA contributions for the interest to offset the tax refund on someone at that level of income. All of this, of course, ignores even with this decent wage most wouldn't be able afford $10/year. As for income splitting, I imagine all of the duo-income families voting Liberal will more than cover the relatively few income-splitters who might take offense.

And that will be confirmed or denied by the results of the election this Fall.....

Case in point for how much of a hack-job that Post article was:

"The CRA stats show 267,000 Canadians who make less than $20,000 had contributed the maximum and 1.1 million Canadians making less than $60,000 were also contributing the maximum to their TFSA."

From direct experience (I'm a financial planner), I can tell you that the vast majority of these people are stay-at-home spouses and/or have husbands/wives that make great money. It's not people struggling to get by as the National Joke or the Conservatives would have you believe.

Hack job? How so, are you suggesting the Post is incorrectly quoting CRA data?

Do you have any data to confirm your direct experience? I'd be interested in reading it......thanks in advance.

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