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Women and Jews on a plane

Accommodate Orthodox Jews or not?   

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If the airline wants to accommodate these guys behind the scenes in a manner that's invisible to the rest of the passengers, I'm all for it. I can't see any reason not to.

If it gets to the point where I am being asked to move, I'll do it, because I don't want to sit by somebody who's offended by my presence and to be honest I doubt it would be a big treat to sit by one of these guys anyway. However, I think maybe somebody -- either the religious mook or the airline-- should compensate me for this inconvenient and insulting turn of events. Upgrade me to first class, give me some cash, or give me a box of those airline-sized liquor bottles.

But if arrangements can't be made, then these guys need to be removed from the plane and dealt with like anybody else who disrupts a flight.

-k

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There are more women than men who don't want to sit by women. Their money is pretty good too, I think.

If that's true, then sure. The reasons someone requests a special seating assignment don't even matter. If you can do it before hand, go for it.

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I think you can ask and the reason should not matter. What if the person seated next to you wears heavy perfume or has bad body odour or an out-of-control toddler or is drunk or ...? I do not think it is the role of the stewardess to be asked to judge the validity of a request. If a move can be accommodated then it should be.

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If the airline wants to accommodate these guys behind the scenes in a manner that's invisible to the rest of the passengers, I'm all for it. I can't see any reason not to.

If it gets to the point where I am being asked to move, I'll do it, because I don't want to sit by somebody who's offended by my presence and to be honest I doubt it would be a big treat to sit by one of these guys anyway. However, I think maybe somebody -- either the religious mook or the airline-- should compensate me for this inconvenient and insulting turn of events. Upgrade me to first class, give me some cash, or give me a box of those airline-sized liquor bottles.

But if arrangements can't be made, then these guys need to be removed from the plane and dealt with like anybody else who disrupts a flight.

-k

Blocking off a seat that you wouldn't be able to select because you are a woman would be invisible and the airline wouldn't have to compensate you. You OK with that?

Why should the airline have to go the expense and trouble of providing rewards to other passengers in order to accomodate religeous biggotry?

Edited by Wilber

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Moralizing isn't a great business to be in.

Which is why it's also okay to have a gay employee work out of site if he's offending customers.

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It's a ridiculous demand that requires the fostering of beliefs that are not compatible with equality guarantees.

On the one hand, yes, you are certainly correct. But then, that's kind of what we do as a society, isn't it?

We revere the freedom of Muslim immigrants to be as misogynistic as they want, and to continue to preach their misogynistic and intolerant attitudes far and wide. We even think it's harsh and racist to suggest that maybe we shouldn't be deliberately bringing in people with misogynistic and intolerant attitudes. Even feminist groups are adamant that we should never stop mass importation of violently misogynistic men (so long as they come from some sort of quaint ethnic group). So why have a problem with violently misogynistic Jews?

Edited by Argus

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Blocking off a seat that you wouldn't be able to select because you are a woman would be invisible and the airline wouldn't have to compensate you. You OK with that?

Why should the airline have to go the expense and trouble of providing rewards to other passengers in order to accomodate religeous biggotry?

It shouldn't have to, but i it wants to then go ahead. As for blocking off seats, no airline is going to fly with empty seats because of this particular form of bigotry. If they can stick these men together with each other or other men without bothering women, fine. In fact, how about just have some special seats in the hold and put them there? I'm sure most of the rest of the passengers would be happier without their presence.

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It shouldn't have to, but i it wants to then go ahead. As for blocking off seats, no airline is going to fly with empty seats because of this particular form of bigotry. If they can stick these men together with each other or other men without bothering women, fine. In fact, how about just have some special seats in the hold and put them there? I'm sure most of the rest of the passengers would be happier without their presence.

My point is, you are disqualifying women from occupying certain seats. Whether a woman sits next to them should be the womans choice, not theirs.

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My point is, you are disqualifying women from occupying certain seats. Whether a woman sits next to them should be the womans choice, not theirs.

This is done all the time the other way around. Hotels have women only floors for instance.

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This is done all the time the other way around. Hotels have women only floors for instance.

Ya, got a problem with that to. Wonder how well men only floors would go over with the PC crowd. Danish courts have ruled women only floors discriminatory qnd illegal.

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Perhaps a solution would be that those who will sit in the seats assigned to them will sit inside the airplane, those who do not, will ride outside?

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Perhaps a solution would be that those who will sit in the seats assigned to them will sit inside the airplane, those who do not, will ride outside?

Works for me. It is interesting how inconsistent people can be when it comes to these issues. On the one hand we have a thread that says it is right to penalize a law school because of its attitudes toward gays and on another we discuss whether airlines should accommodate religious bigotry toward women and hotels that discriminate against men,

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I do not disagree. But the whole point of these anonymous discussion is not the resolution of an issue but the discussion of an issue.

Have you ever seen an issue discussed here where the result was an unanimous agreement?

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I do not disagree. But the whole point of these anonymous discussion is not the resolution of an issue but the discussion of an issue.

Have you ever seen an issue discussed here where the result was an unanimous agreement?

I don't expect unanimous agreement, just pointing out that people can be pretty flexible and inconsistent when it comes to what they consider discrimination.

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So ... you would disallow that prejudice then ?

I can't do that. I don't encourage it for sure. Women are people too, last I checked.

How do we know that there are "more women than men who don't want to sit by women"?

I have a theory. Welcome back, btw.

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On the one hand, yes, you are certainly correct. But then, that's kind of what we do as a society, isn't it?

We revere the freedom of Muslim immigrants to be as misogynistic as they want, and to continue to preach their misogynistic and intolerant attitudes far and wide. We even think it's harsh and racist to suggest that maybe we shouldn't be deliberately bringing in people with misogynistic and intolerant attitudes. Even feminist groups are adamant that we should never stop mass importation of violently misogynistic men (so long as they come from some sort of quaint ethnic group). So why have a problem with violently misogynistic Jews?

I didn't used to have a problem with any of it. Now there aren't many areas that I don't agree with your point of view on this.

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This is done all the time the other way around. Hotels have women only floors for instance.

and there are men's only clubs...

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I have insisted on being moved from one table to another if I am seated beside a large party in a restaurant.

Were the people beside you gays? Is that why you were moving?

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Were the people beside you gays? Is that why you were moving?

I don't care if they were gay, muslim, transgender or a family with young children. If I can't have a conversation with my own party, we will certainly ask to be moved. Not sure what you are getting at? But please, spell it out.

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Oddly specific request, K. Tell me, how many tiny empties are clinking around in your purse right now ;)

It's not a problem! I can quit any time I want!

Blocking off a seat that you wouldn't be able to select because you are a woman would be invisible and the airline wouldn't have to compensate you. You OK with that?

I'm assuming that there aren't a lot of these Haredi flying around, aside from maybe on direct flights to Israel, so I can't imagine it would have much net effect on the typical female traveler.

Why should the airline have to go the expense and trouble of providing rewards to other passengers in order to accomodate religeous biggotry?

Well, obviously it would be preferable that the problem be taken care of when seats are sold so that it never get to that point.

But I think that if it's a choice between a flight being delayed for an extended period while angry religious idiots have their tantrum, or giving out a few perks to other customers in exchange for getting the issue settled expeditiously, I would think it preferable for them to give out some loot, shwag, and perks to smooth things over.

I mean, if I'm going to be inconvenienced and insulted by some bearded idiot, I usually expect that to happen at the security counter. If it happens on the plane, then I'd prefer if they just hucked him off the plane to be honest. But if they're not going to huck him off the plane and are going to ask me to move to accomodate him, maybe they should make it worth my while. Hopefully with mini liquor bottles or a free upgrade to First Class!

-k

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It's not a problem! I can quit any time I want!

I'm assuming that there aren't a lot of these Haredi flying around, aside from maybe on direct flights to Israel, so I can't imagine it would have much net effect on the typical female traveler.

Well, obviously it would be preferable that the problem be taken care of when seats are sold so that it never get to that point.

But I think that if it's a choice between a flight being delayed for an extended period while angry religious idiots have their tantrum, or giving out a few perks to other customers in exchange for getting the issue settled expeditiously, I would think it preferable for them to give out some loot, shwag, and perks to smooth things over.

I mean, if I'm going to be inconvenienced and insulted by some bearded idiot, I usually expect that to happen at the security counter. If it happens on the plane, then I'd prefer if they just hucked him off the plane to be honest. But if they're not going to huck him off the plane and are going to ask me to move to accomodate him, maybe they should make it worth my while. Hopefully with mini liquor bottles or a free upgrade to First Class!

-k

The airline probably would see it that way but the bearded idiot should be footing the bill, not the airline. And then the bearded idiot should be put on that airlines no fly list.

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