Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Crime wave now spreads in US


Recommended Posts

It's not just the police. The problems start at the top and trickle down from there.

Enclose governments within the same sort of surveillance and monitoring regime they have in mind for us.

At the very least we should be outlawing in-camera meetings between lobbyists, CEO's, politicians, bureaucrats and other senior public officials.

We might need the death penalty for attempting to get around the system though.

Edited by eyeball
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 285
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I dont think that is the question at all. No need to go to such extremes. I think it would be much saner to think of how do we repair the problems with policing.

I don't think any politician has the balls to make that a platform to run a election with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just the police. The problems start at the top and trickle down from there.

Enclose governments within the same sort of surveillance and monitoring regime they have in mind for us.

At the very least we should be outlawing in-camera meetings between lobbyists, CEO's, politicians, bureaucrats and other senior public officials.

We might need the death penalty for attempting to get around the system though.

I doubt a politician will want to make that his election platform.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think any politician has the balls to make that a platform to run a election with.

Politicians make laws. The statutes required to investigate these problems already exist. Then it falls to the D of J to enforce them. Obamas administration has been aggressive, but there is obviously a ways to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Politicians make laws. The statutes required to investigate these problems already exist. Then it falls to the D of J to enforce them. Obamas administration has been aggressive, but there is obviously a ways to go.

That or policemen were acting within their guidelines. Guidelines may need to be changed. People who make laws are the ones who need to review guidelines.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That or policemen were acting within their guidelines. Guidelines may need to be changed. People who make laws are the ones who need to review guidelines.

When there are cases of police forces acting outside the guidelines of the existing statutes, the people responsible for enforcement need to act more often, and aggressively, to reform police actions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think any politician has the balls to make that a platform to run a election with.

None that are currently in power no. This sort of change would require a brand new political party with a completely different outlook. I suspect promising to do such a thing especially these days would engender a really strong populist appeal. If nothing else this should prompt existing regimes to respond with more and more transparency measures.

Force absolute transparency, accountability and responsibility on the top echelons of power in government and it'll soon be flooding down through all the rest of officialdom like shit through a goose.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The rule of law only works because everyone has the idea that it's a good system. When more and more citizens cast it aside, it becomes effectively useless in those communities. It seems like a tipping point of some kind.

The key point you guys seem to keep missing is that the police themselves have undermined the public trust in the system.

Baltimore, like Ferguson Missouri, has a history of bad relations between the police and the people they're supposed to be policing. Freddie Gray is not the first person who was put into a Baltimore police van in one piece and emerged crippled or dead.

While people keep shouting "it's just a few bad apples!" The old adage is "don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bushel". That doesn't mean ignore the bad apple and pretend it's not there. It means throw out the bad apple before the rot spreads. That onus is on the police. They've failed. They've proven again and again that they'll protect their own, whitewash complaints against them, try to hide the rot. There's no better example of this than we saw in the Robert Dziekanski death, in which the Braidwood inquiry uncovered the depths the RCMP stooped to to whitewash the incident and lie to the public to protect its own members.

Maybe that used to work, but now in the age of instant information and cell phone video there's no way for the police to sweep everything under the rug anymore.

People have lost their trust in the police because the police have failed to address the issue of accountability.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is far more fundamental. People have lost their trust in police along with their trust in virtually all our institutions of accountability. This can only be restored from the top down. It's not just police-gone-wild it's whole governments that are out of control.

It's just like restoring fish values in an industrially logged watershed that is filled with with steep unstable and landslide prone slopes. There is no point in trying to fix the streams and rivers below where the fish live without stopping all the sediment and crap that's flowing down into them from above.

Corruption flows down from above, it doesn't well up from below.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a direct result of the media's crusade against cops, cops are now being surrounded and threatened any time they show up in certain communities across the US. Basic serve-and-protect police work can't be done, and arrests are way down, crime is way up.

"An Obama Crime Wave". What a hilarious headline.

Why is this happening? Because of those awful murders of black men, you say? Let's consider those. How many unlawful murders were there in the last year? 5? 7? Michael Brown was not one of them, but they mostly all have something in common. Refusing to be arrested, your basic resisting arrest. If they hadn't resisted, none of the following would have occurred.

You're aware that Freddie Gray was shackled hand and foot in the back of a police van when the fatal injuries were inflicted, right? Seems like that's stretching the "resisting arrest" narrative pretty far there.

But that's besides the point. The main point is, how many interactions occurred between cops and blacks across the U.S. in the same last year as the above deaths? 500,000? 700,000? The vast majority of the time, nothing bad happens, and that is a fact. Also a fact, the media has completely ignored this and has therefore failed to provide any context because it goes against their narrative/crusade. So basically, they're ignoring reality.

And then there is the inconvenient fact that they are ignoring white deaths, cop deaths(by comparison to the black deaths) and of course the long and sorted records and history of the blacks involved. But the end result of all this, something the media didn't see coming(though anyone with a brain and some scruples could deduce), is the resulting increase in crime. Way to go, meatheads.

So what are you actually arguing here?

Should the media have not reported Freddie Gray's death?

Should the media have been obliged to put some kind of police-positive spin on the circumstances of Gray's death?

Should it have ignored the riots all together?

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

But as I mentioned before, how many wrongful deaths occurred in the last year versus how many interactions occurred with the police in the same year?

What's the acceptable number you'd like to baseline here ? And do you accept the same media that blows every small thing out of proportion to say that 1% cop murder of blacks is an acceptable rate ?

And somebody asserts that Muslim terrorism is a bigger problem that this too ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Should the media have not reported Freddie Gray's death?

Should the media have been obliged to put some kind of police-positive spin on the circumstances of Gray's death?

Should it have ignored the riots all together?

at least 385 people shot and killed by police nationwide during the first five months of this year, more than two a day, according to a Washington Post analysis. That is more than twice the rate of fatal police shootings tallied by the federal government over the past decade, a count that officials concede is incomplete.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-police-shootings-in-2015-approaching-400-nationwide/2015/05/30/d322256a-058e-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html

I can't understand Sharkman's point about this being a "media crusade against cops" unless the WP is lying here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the acceptable number you'd like to baseline here ? And do you accept the same media that blows every small thing out of proportion to say that 1% cop murder of blacks is an acceptable rate ?And somebody asserts that Muslim terrorism is a bigger problem that this too ?

Personally knowing how practically impossible it would be to eliminate corruption am willing to accept what we have now. I call it as good as imperfect humans can achieve.

Link to post
Share on other sites

None that are currently in power no. This sort of change would require a brand new political party with a completely different outlook. I suspect promising to do such a thing especially these days would engender a really strong populist appeal. If nothing else this should prompt existing regimes to respond with more and more transparency measures.

Force absolute transparency, accountability and responsibility on the top echelons of power in government and it'll soon be flooding down through all the rest of officialdom like shit through a goose.

The tools are at our disposal to start and lead such a political party.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is far more fundamental. People have lost their trust in police along with their trust in virtually all our institutions of accountability. This can only be restored from the top down. It's not just police-gone-wild it's whole governments that are out of control.

Speak for yourself...there is still plenty of support for police officers (also "people").

And it's not always about fish....I wonder if they trust fisher persons or the "police"?

Edited by bush_cheney2004
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you point out the one, you're an islamaphobe. If you point out the other, you're a justified, victim.

Taxpayers PAY the police to 'serve and protect US.

We demand that they behave better than terrorists.

What a stupid argument, shady. You've really outdone yourself with that one! :/

Link to post
Share on other sites

When there are cases of police forces acting outside the guidelines of the existing statutes, the people responsible for enforcement need to act more often, and aggressively, to reform police actions.

In this case the "legal"( court) system is responsible for policing the "legal" (police)system. It is a obvious conflict of interest.

Link to post
Share on other sites

But you're the "might makes right" guy aren't you ? Why do you care ? If people start assassinating the police, then that's just your philosophy in motion isn't it ?

Cause you misunderstand the way I see things and have jumped to conclusions based on those assumptions you have made.

I said the reality of nature is might makes right.

Edited by Freddy
Link to post
Share on other sites

Taxpayers PAY the police to 'serve and protect US.

We demand that they behave better than terrorists.

What a stupid argument, shady. You've really outdone yourself with that one! :/

Nonsense. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. With one group, a small number of incidents doesn't amount to a threat. But with another group, an even smaller number of incidents equals a pattern of behaviour and a most serious threat. You people need to make up your minds.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Taxpayers PAY the police to 'serve and protect US.

We demand that they behave better than terrorists.

What a stupid argument, shady. You've really outdone yourself with that one! :/

Speak for yourself....we demand that the police arrest perps. If they threaten the police or others, shoot 'em.

The U.S. is not Hug-A-Thug Canada.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...