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Cecil the Lion and the Phenomena of Public Shaming.

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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/28/killer-of-cecil-the-lion-was-american-zimbabwe-officials-claim

Conservationists in Zimbabwe have accused an American man of being the alleged killer of Cecil, one of Africa’s most famous lions and the star attraction at the Hwange national park.

On Tuesday, the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said the man thought to have paid $50,000 (£32,000) for the chance to kill Cecil was not a Spaniard as originally believed, but US citizen Walter Palmer, from a small town near Minneapolis. The man left the lion skinned and headless on the outskirts of the park, the ZCTF’s Johnny Rodrigues said in a statement.

The hunt took place around 6 July. “They went hunting at night with a spotlight and they spotted Cecil,” Rodrigues said. “They tied a dead animal to their vehicle to lure Cecil out of the park and they scented an area about half a kilometre from the park.”

Sure we can argue how awful it is for a douche to go to Africa and pay $50,000 so he can hunt a protected Lion. I'm not bothered that now we know everything about this guy and his business had to be closed yesterday. And that Jimmy Kimmel was almost brought to tears talking about it.

http://time.com/3976423/jimmy-kimmel-cecil-lion-hunt/

Can we agree that this guy's like is probably ruined now though?

Then we have a couple that locked a puppy in bathroom and went on vacation.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/london-couple-plead-guilty-to-locking-puppy-in-bathroom-while-on-vacation-1.2487508

Their lives are also probably ruined because web activists have taken it upon themselves to try and shame these people online and plaster their names all over the net so they'll be linked to their crimes for the rest of their lives.

Then there's Justine Sacco who made a somewhat racist Tweet and before her plane landed her life was ruined.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?_r=0

Is there something that can be done to stop people trying to make themselves feel better by bringing down people who do things that the "internet" doesn't approve of? Or is this just the price of having the internet?

It's a brave new world that a lot of people are very uneasy about.

Edited by Boges

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I'm personally starting to get tired of FB friends sharing this story

WWWTT

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Is there something that can be done to stop people trying to make themselves feel better by bringing down people who do things that the "internet" doesn't approve of? Or is this just the price of having the internet?

Lynch mobs take the law into their own hands which means they will frequently target people who did not do what they are accused or mete out punishments that are grossly disproportionate to the alleged offence (a particularly ironic point since most participants in theses lynch mob cry bitterly about 'minimum mandatory sentences').

It is also ironic that the people who lead these lynch mobs are engaging in classic bully behavior and it would not surprise me to find that these people are likely nasty bullies in the private lives - a behavior which we are trying to reduce rather than encourage which is what people do by jumping on a lynch mob bandwagon.

Edited by TimG

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Lynch mobs take the law into their own hands

Lynch mobs murder people. Denouncing views as disgusting and regressive or otherwise criticizing people for being a mouth-breathing idiots is not the work of a "lynch mob." It's called free speech.

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Two words: pudding pops. Two more: Steubenville football.

These incidents often happen when other efforts to obtain justice have failed, or when no mechanism exists at all. They are often a manifestation of anger and outrage at people who have gotten away with something. Yeah, it's less than ideal.

What would you do about it? Censorship?

The circumstances of this kill are so dodgy that Mr Palmer's assertion that he thought he was doing everything legally is ridiculous. I see that he has also managed to kill a white rhinoceros. There are only a few of those left on earth, so it's lucky that he managed to kill one before they're all gone.

I don't know for sure whether my dentist has ever done something like this. If I found out, I'd find a different dentist. As a consumer, this isn't a hobby I'd want my dollars to support.

-k

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What is the downside of collective moralizing and shaming ? Hasn't this been with us since humans formed groups ? I would also hesitate to call this a mob unless violence was involved, but maybe 'mob mentality' is a valid, if extreme, assessment.

Also, this cuts both ways politically. Outrage over individual crimes, over extreme manifestations of 'politically correct' thinking, fringe viewpoints of environmental groups or PETA all make it into the mix.

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I don't care what my dentist does in her/his spare time. They can shoot lions, tigers, bears, moose, wild boar, ostriches, or wombats if they wish. It's not like hundreds of thousands of other species are not slaughtered each year in the same way.

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I don't care what my dentist does in her/his spare time. They can shoot lions, tigers, bears, moose, wild boar, ostriches, or wombats if they wish. It's not like hundreds of thousands of other species are not slaughtered each year in the same way.

You're sidestepping the morality part. Is there NOTHING your dentist would do in his/her spare time that would cause you to pause before giving her/him your business ?

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You're sidestepping the morality part. Is there NOTHING your dentist would do in his/her spare time that would cause you to pause before giving her/him your business ?

Morality is your hang up...not so much mine. How about murder ? That might get me to change dentists.

I dated a dentist once....her idea of a good time was to visit very sad foreclosure auctions of farm property and buy antiques on the cheap.

Would it be OK for my dentist to bash in the skulls of baby seals with a hakapik ?

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Morality is your hang up...not so much mine. How about murder ? That might get me to change dentists.

It's comforting that you do appear to have a line, even if it's ultimately just self-preservation in the face of having a murder tell you to open wide...

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Lynch mobs murder people. Denouncing views as disgusting and regressive or otherwise criticizing people for being a mouth-breathing idiots is not the work of a "lynch mob." It's called free speech.

Lynch mobs are extra-legal vigilantes that mete out punishments on people who have offended them. They are a problem because they have appointed themselves judge jury and jailor. It is not free speech when punishments are inflicted on people based on the say-so of internet lynch mobs. Edited by TimG

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It's comforting that you do appear to have a line, even if it's ultimately just self-preservation in the face of having a murder tell you to open wide...

Well...that's only because my college roommate went on to murder his wife and two kids. It coulda been me...or gasp..a lion !

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What is the downside of collective moralizing and shaming ?

The downsides are the same as with all vigilante justice:

1) innocent people are punished based on misinformation;

2) the punishment can be grossly disproportionate the crime.

IMO, anyone who complains about minimum mandatory sentences should be concerned about internet vigilantes.

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The downsides are the same as with all vigilante justice:

1) innocent people are punished based on misinformation;

2) the punishment can be grossly disproportionate the crime.

IMO, anyone who complains about minimum mandatory sentences should be concerned about internet vigilantes.

I understand. Is there a chance, or an idea of a chance that this new phenomenon will be moderated soon/eventually do you think ? Or do you propose that existing legal restrictions on defamation/slander/libel be somehow modified to deal with it ?

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I understand. Is there a chance, or an idea of a chance that this new phenomenon will be moderated soon/eventually do you think ? Or do you propose that existing legal restrictions on defamation/slander/libel be somehow modified to deal with it ?

I think people just need to speak up when a mob starts forming and remind people of the dangers of vigilante justice. I also think that people who harass individuals at their home or place of work because of information spread via social media should face legal repercussions. Simply expressing ones disgust is free speech and should be protected - it only crosses the line when punishments are handed out. Edited by TimG

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I think people just need to speak up when a mob starts forming and remind people of the dangers of vigilante justice. I also think that people who harass individuals at their home or place of work because of information spread via social media should face legal repercussions.

I posted a link in the OP about Justine Sacco. It's a long story. It also talks about a woman who publicly shamed a man for making a sexist joke in public where he ended up losing his job. His story got to a Men's Rights organization and they turned their wrath on the woman and she ended up losing HER job.

Karma!

I met a man who, in early 2013, had been sitting at a conference for tech developers in Santa Clara, Calif., when a stupid joke popped into his head. It was about the attachments for computers and mobile devices that are commonly called dongles. He murmured the joke to his friend sitting next to him, he told me. “It was so bad, I don’t remember the exact words,” he said. “Something about a fictitious piece of hardware that has a really big dongle, a ridiculous dongle. . . . It wasn’t even conversation-level volume.”

Moments later, he half-noticed when a woman one row in front of them stood up, turned around and took a photograph. He thought she was taking a crowd shot, so he looked straight ahead, trying to avoid ruining her picture. It’s a little painful to look at the photograph now, knowing what was coming.

The woman had, in fact, overheard the joke. She considered it to be emblematic of the gender imbalance that plagues the tech industry and the toxic, male-dominated corporate culture that arises from it. She tweeted the picture to her 9,209 followers with the caption: “Not cool. Jokes about . . . ‘big’ dongles right behind me.” Ten minutes later, he and his friend were taken into a quiet room at the conference and asked to explain themselves. A day later, his boss called him into his office, and he was fired.

“I packed up all my stuff in a box,” he told me. (Like Stone and Sacco, he had never before talked on the record about what happened to him. He spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid further damaging his career.) “I went outside to call my wife. I’m not one to shed tears, but” — he paused — “when I got in the car with my wife I just. . . . I’ve got three kids. Getting fired was terrifying.”

The woman who took the photograph, Adria Richards, soon felt the wrath of the crowd herself. The man responsible for the dongle joke had posted about losing his job on Hacker News, an online forum popular with developers. This led to a backlash from the other end of the political spectrum. So-called men’s rights activists and anonymous trolls bombarded Richards with death threats on Twitter and Facebook. Someone tweeted Richards’s home address along with a photograph of a beheaded woman with duct tape over her mouth. Fearing for her life, she left her home, sleeping on friends’ couches for the remainder of the year.

No one has shit that doesn't stink and say things that they would never want made public. It's unsettling that their are people around that feel it their obligation to make it known that they are unhappy with things people may say in private, in the public arena.

Edited by Boges

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I wonder what kind of person wants to pay 50 grand to go kill something simply to cut it's head off, I assume to hang up alongside other such "treasures".

Well, since he already had a felony record for illegally doing the same to a bear back home, and had settled out of court on a sexual harassment complaint does give some insight. Sounds like this dufus had it coming.

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I wonder what kind of person wants to pay 50 grand to go kill something simply to cut it's head off, I assume to hang up alongside other such "treasures".

Well, since he already had a felony record for illegally doing the same to a bear back home, and had settled out of court on a sexual harassment complaint does give some insight. Sounds like this dufus had it coming.

Sure, it's hard to feel bad for this guy. But the wrath that was inflicted on this guy could be inflicted on anyone if we're unlucky to say something that a SJW deems unpleasant within earshot.

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Sure, it's hard to feel bad for this guy. But the wrath that was inflicted on this guy could be inflicted on anyone if we're unlucky to say something that a SJW deems unpleasant within earshot.

I guess you have to be careful where you tell offensive jokes. Doesn't sound all that taxing to me.

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I guess you have to be careful where you tell offensive jokes. Doesn't sound all that taxing to me.

Offensive to who though?

Is the Dongle joke I highlighted above really all that offensive?

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I don't care what my dentist does in her/his spare time. They can shoot lions, tigers, bears, moose, wild boar, ostriches, or wombats if they wish. It's not like hundreds of thousands of other species are not slaughtered each year in the same way.

Well then today there's a dentist who needs your business! :lol:

People have power today because of instant mass communication. That's reality. Get used to it.

.

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People have power today because of instant mass communication. That's reality. Get used to it.

.

Instant mass point-to-point. In other words, we don't have to wait for corporate news to tell us what to be outraged about. If we did, there would still be Confederate flags flying in SC.

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