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Cecil the Lion and the Phenomena of Public Shaming.

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I see that no one has mentioned that, in effect, he most probably killed 24 Lions by doing this. Actually, 24 more. The Lion Cecil had two Prides. In these two prides he had 24 cubs. As I'm sure all of you know, when the Alpha male is removed/dies another Alpha replaces him. These new Alpha's, as a matter of taking control of the pride, kill all the cubs from the previous Alpha. Currently there is great concern for the fate of these cubs. Guess he got his monies worth.

Give it up Derek. They didn't just use a truck to drive to the location. They used a truck to lure it off the protected reserve and into an area they thought they'd be safe killing it. A huge difference and if you refuse to see that then there is zero point in discussing this with you. Using Canada as a comparison is ludicrous and really reaching. Tell me, where in Canada can you hunt at night and use high powered flood lights? Come on...waiting...waiting.

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Irrelevant....encroachment and safety for humans by/for the people who actually have to scratch out a living means more dead lions. It's easy to sit in a comfy "North American" city and preach that crap to sub-Saharan Africans desperate to survive by any means necessary.

You really should research this some more. The Sub Saharan Africans involved in this were far from impoverished. They make a fortune doing this. This also was not an animal that posed a threat to Sub Saharan Africans. He was an animal that lived on a protected reserve and his only contact with people was controlled. In fact what makes this act even more disgusting is the fact that he was accustomed to people and trusted them. Talk about going for the easy pickings.

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You really should research this some more. The Sub Saharan Africans involved in this were far from impoverished. They make a fortune doing this. This also was not an animal that posed a threat to Sub Saharan Africans. He was an animal that lived on a protected reserve and his only contact with people was controlled. In fact what makes this act even more disgusting is the fact that he was accustomed to people and trusted them. Talk about going for the easy pickings.

Meaningless in the larger scheme of things economic in Africa. The "fortunes" get spent on the local economy. "Taming" the lion to trust people is even more stupid...for people and lions.

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Hunting African lion bad....hunting sea lions / seals GOOD!

Well, I would say that in general hunting species that are low in numbers / endangered is problematic, while hunting species that are abundant and at no risk of endangerment/extinction is fine. The assumption here is that there is an inherent value in preventing species from going extinct, to preserve natural heritage, biodiversity, etc.

Edited by Bonam

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Meaningless in the larger scheme of things economic in Africa. The "fortunes" get spent on the local economy. "Taming" the lion to trust people is even more stupid...for people and lions.

Paying 50 grand to go hunt an endangered species is beyond stupid...borders on sick. Rich Merikas just don't give a damn it seems.

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Lynch mobs take the law into their own hands which means they will frequently target people who did not do what they are accused or mete out punishments that are grossly disproportionate to the alleged offence (a particularly ironic point since most participants in theses lynch mob cry bitterly about 'minimum mandatory sentences').

Lynch mobs murder people. Denouncing views as disgusting and regressive or otherwise criticizing people for being a mouth-breathing idiots is not the work of a "lynch mob." It's called free speech.

Going to have to agree with TimG here on this one (but TimG won't acknowledge it)

I've seen these groups before, these protectionist groups. Or protection "moral"

They have one thing in common, they all claim to want to save Africa, or the rain forest or basically developing nations or even non white western European nations.

The thing I find funny/odd/disingenuous is that these people never take the same approach towards similar crimes against nature when the same crimes happen in western nations.

Take Shady's recent thread about China's Guangxi province dog/cat eating festival.

But where's the outcry when there's a rib fest in London Ontario? Where's the public shaming? Where's the non stop face book shares?

Did you know that Canada and the US allows native Inuit to hunt the Bowhead whale?

This is one of the hugest crimes in humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you probably never even heard of the Bowhead whale?

This screams double f'n standard!

WWWTT

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They tried to destroy the tracker.

It doesn't specifically state who specifically lured the lion; one suspects "the men" includes both the guides and Mr Palmer:

No mention of bribes; it sounds to me like he gave his $50,000 to some shady mooks rather than to a legitimate organization that could secure the proper permits.

-k

So the American's two guides tried to destroy the tracker, one didn't have a hunting permit/tags for the lion hunt, and even if Mr Palmer attempted to lure a lion for his hunt, how is Mr Palmer guilty of wrongdoing? I mean, to place bait or the use of lures when hunting isn't an attempt to lure a specific animal and not another (with a GPS tracker)

None the less, social media is trying Mr Palmer, when its very its possible he didn't commit a crime, or didn't know that his two guides weren't operating within the law...........is it possible that Palmer didn't intend to break any laws, in what he thought to be a legal (though distasteful to some) hunt?

Don't get me wrong, if he willing broke any laws, I hope the book is thrown at him, but I do liken these Social Media crusades to a witch hunt by those with a political agenda........I mean, where is the outrage garnering so much attention in the media, for a practice that has been ongoing for centuries?

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Going to have to agree with TimG here on this one (but TimG won't acknowledge it)

I've seen these groups before, these protectionist groups. Or protection "moral"

They have one thing in common, they all claim to want to save Africa, or the rain forest or basically developing nations or even non white western European nations.

The thing I find funny/odd/disingenuous is that these people never take the same approach towards similar crimes against nature when the same crimes happen in western nations.

Take Shady's recent thread about China's Guangxi province dog/cat eating festival.

But where's the outcry when there's a rib fest in London Ontario? Where's the public shaming? Where's the non stop face book shares?

Did you know that Canada and the US allows native Inuit to hunt the Bowhead whale?

This is one of the hugest crimes in humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you probably never even heard of the Bowhead whale?

This screams double f'n standard!

WWWTT

Well, I'm pretty consistent in my views, they're all heinous and bad but there is something extra disgusting about killing for fun. It's akin to the mentality of serial-killers.

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Give it up Derek. They didn't just use a truck to drive to the location. They used a truck to lure it off the protected reserve and into an area they thought they'd be safe killing it. A huge difference and if you refuse to see that then there is zero point in discussing this with you.

I trust you have proof?

Using Canada as a comparison is ludicrous and really reaching. Tell me, where in Canada can you hunt at night and use high powered flood lights? Come on...waiting...waiting.

In your own Province, one with a tag can hunt 'coons at night.....First Nations bands can hunt at night across most of Canada, likewise hunting in Fall and early Winter in Canada's North......Night Vision rifle scopes are sold in Canada for a reason :rolleyes:

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Well, I'm pretty consistent in my views, they're all heinous and bad but there is something extra disgusting about killing for fun. It's akin to the mentality of serial-killers.

Thats a nice, irrational sentiment, but you're a vegan, so yea, hey, have you ever seen an animal killed and eaten alive in the wild? I dont beleive in trophy hunting, but opinions like yours are those of extremists, and dont count for much.

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"I'm sick of this back slapping isn't humanity great bullshit. Humans are a virus with shoes"

Bill Hicks

what would you like to blame animals for?

That they are sucking at killing humans.

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I guess we should tell the Africans that regulate these paid hunts that they can no longer allow it, that will go over well. After no one sees a lion as anything but a dangerous animal and competition for food im sure they will have an even greater reason to keep them around, just like we did with the wolf. I dont like trophy hunting, but, if here in the real world paying to shoot a lion makes them valuable, perhaps this is the only way to keep them around, we can try it the other way if you like, i dont much care.

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Thats a nice, irrational sentiment, but you're a vegan, so yea, hey, have you ever seen an animal killed and eaten alive in the wild? I dont beleive in trophy hunting, but opinions like yours are those of extremists, and dont count for much.

I disagree, I think Vegans can have an opinion based on their own morals, from a presumptive, highground......I disagree with it, but there you go. The ones I find hypocritical are those that eat factory-farmed pigs, beef, chicken and mutton, yet find hunting to be cruel, teetering on animal abuse.

Edited by Derek 2.0

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Thats a nice, irrational sentiment, but you're a vegan, so yea, hey, have you ever seen an animal killed and eaten alive in the wild? I dont beleive in trophy hunting, but opinions like yours are those of extremists, and dont count for much.

This thread is not a discussion about me or about veganism (which I'm not, incidentally, contrary to my signature) so if you agree with the crux of what I say about trophy-hunting, kindly keep your spewing to yourself.

You're violating forum rules with that post.

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So the American's two guides tried to destroy the tracker, one didn't have a hunting permit/tags for the lion hunt, and even if Mr Palmer attempted to lure a lion for his hunt, how is Mr Palmer guilty of wrongdoing? I mean, to place bait or the use of lures when hunting isn't an attempt to lure a specific animal and not another (with a GPS tracker)

None the less, social media is trying Mr Palmer, when its very its possible he didn't commit a crime, or didn't know that his two guides weren't operating within the law...........is it possible that Palmer didn't intend to break any laws, in what he thought to be a legal (though distasteful to some) hunt?

It's possible that he didn't intend to break the law. Then again, considering his history, it's also possible that he didn't give a crap about the law.

-k

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The ones I find hypocritical are those that eat factory-farmed pigs, beef, chicken and mutton, yet find hunting to be cruel, teetering on animal abuse.

Finally, something you and I agree on.

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It's possible that he didn't intend to break the law. Then again, considering his history, it's also possible that he didn't give a crap about the law.

-k

Given his priors, throw him in jail with no bail. He absolutely knew what he was doing.

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Well, I would say that in general hunting species that are low in numbers / endangered is problematic, while hunting species that are abundant and at no risk of endangerment/extinction is fine. The assumption here is that there is an inherent value in preventing species from going extinct, to preserve natural heritage, biodiversity, etc.

That's fine...but in this case it is perfectly legal to hunt lions off reserve.

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The more dickheads whose lives are ruined the better...

People might learn to behave better if they realize that their actions have consequences.

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Lion hunting safaris.....book your trip early before they run out of cute lions !

Lion Male 	$25,000
Lion Female 	$8,000 
White Lion Male $30,000 
Elephant 	$40,000
Cape Buffalo 	$15,000

http://www.phirimasafaris.com/pricing.html

http://www.bulletsafaris.com/animals/hunt-lion-with-bullet-safaris

http://www.africanskyhunting.co.za/packages/7daylionplainsgame.html

http://www.africahuntlodge.com/lion_hunt_package.asp

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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The ones I find hypocritical are those that eat factory-farmed pigs, beef, chicken and mutton, yet find hunting to be cruel, teetering on animal abuse.

oh my! Is this you championing the sport of factory-farmed animal killing? :lol:

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oh my! Is this you championing the sport of factory-farmed animal killing? :lol:

Sure, I know when I eat a Mulie or Swamp Donkey that I killed, it would have had a better life prior than factory-farmed stock, likewise a grouse in my freezer, didn't spend its short life in a cage so small it couldn't stand, so as to increase weight and prevent bruising of the meat.

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