Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Recommended Posts

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/31/toronto-star-laments-lack-of-racial-crime-data-it-helped-purge-decades-ago/

This is ironic.

The same Toronto Star that seemingly played a central role in purging racial crime statistics collected by the government and prohibiting its future collection is now calling for its aggregation. Years ago, the Toronto Star seemed to champion the faux outrage over "dangerous" statistics regarding race and crime. Now, with its desire to push an agenda of racial agitation and division (drawing inspiration from its ideological allies south of the border), it now wants the very data it helped destroy.

To the credit of the author of the original Toronto Star piece, she chastises her journalistic antecedents for contributing to this purge. She says that more information is always better than less, no matter how uncomfortable it may make some people feel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the late eighties/early nineties - a Toronto Police Sergeant was pilloried by the Toronto Star for saying that there was "a disproportionate amount of black crime" in Toronto. The Star was relentless in its denial and the fact there were no statistics to back it up. It's been almost impossible to speak in such terms since - and come to public grips with the causes of rampant black-on-black violence. All you have to do is look at the faces of all the murdered victims in Toronto - the majority are black - and the killers are almost exclusively black. The violence and mayhem is but a tiny part of the black community - but represents a large proportion of crime in Toronto. I've said before - the Toronto Star has been an enabler of the continuing violence in the black community. They have blood on their hands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

There's literally more than 100 years of research on the relationship between race and crime. You think there's something new that we're missing here? Edited by cybercoma
Link to post
Share on other sites

There's literally more than 100 years of research on the relationship between race and crime.

And there was more than 100 years of research on physics before the 20th century. Nevertheless, much remained to be discovered.

Social sciences are still in their infancy and more data is always helpful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

The Toronto Star was the same lot that supported the end of the long form census?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do I think that we don't yet know everything there is to know on the topic? Most certainly. There is always more to know.

Absolutely. I'm in favour of Stats Canada keeping more thorough statistics and running surveys more frequently. But then in the last 10 years, we've seen many longitudinal surveys ended (as well as the end of the long-form census). The priority of the Conservative government is not better and more accurate data for reasoned policy analysis and creation. It's literally the exact opposite. Less clear data, more obfuscation, and a reliance on ideology over researched, fact-based policy.
Link to post
Share on other sites

The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

Exactly. We've got virtually zero statistics across the country due to hysteria from the left. Now, trying to import the neo-Marxist #BlackLivesMatter narrative into Canada, the left wants data to misrepresent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. We've got virtually zero statistics across the country due to hysteria from the left. Now, trying to import the neo-Marxist #BlackLivesMatter narrative into Canada, the left wants data to misrepresent.

I don't understand how crime statistics are going to help such a thing. All they will probably show is that blacks commit a lot of violent crime in Canada. That is what the statistics show in the US and UK, after all. I would expect complete crime statistics to show that aside from family violence, most violence in Canada is done by visible minorities, blacks, natives, asians, arabs, etc. How does this help make a case that police are treating black people badly?

Edited by Civis Romanus sum
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

No it's not. If you actively strive to create an environment where no one can even mention race-stats - and those stats could be used to create programs that specifically target problem areas......then you are enabling the continuation of crime. The Star has done that in spades.......and that's why I say they have blood on their hands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No it's not. If you actively strive to create an environment where no one can even mention race-stats - and those stats could be used to create programs that specifically target problem areas......then you are enabling the continuation of crime. The Star has done that in spades.......and that's why I say they have blood on their hands.

You said yourself you know where the problems are and who is causing and being victimized by them. Betting that the cops and social service agencies on the ground do to. What specific information are you lacking? Then there's the assumption that having that information would actually make a difference, which is a pretty big leap given the gap between knowing and doing.

FTR, I'm not against more stats, I'm against intellectually bankrupt partisan arguments.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You said yourself you know where the problems are and who is causing and being victimized by them. Betting that the cops and social service agencies on the ground do to. What specific information are you lacking? Then there's the assumption that having that information would actually make a difference, which is a pretty big leap given the gap between knowing and doing.

FTR, I'm not against more stats, I'm against intellectually bankrupt partisan arguments.

What could be less partisan that having data to make informed decisions? Let the facts speak. It's an injustice to generalize with the term "black people" who span dozens of countries with a swath of different cultural and political differences. I really have no idea what the granular data would show us - because there is none - at least local to Toronto. Somalia, South Africa, Jamaica, Trinidad, Dominican.....you can't just roll them up as "black people". Who's committing the crimes, where are they coming from? And for heaven's sake, openly acknowledge that there are challenges with each source - and lets have an integrated program that deals with a better incoming filter (immigration) and effective local support systems.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What could be less partisan that having data to make informed decisions?

I agree. But that's not where this is all coming from, is it? The OP is using this as a "gotcha" moment (I guess one must rigidly adhere to ideas at all times and never change one's mind).

Let the facts speak. It's an injustice to generalize with the term "black people" who span dozens of countries with a swath of different cultural and political differences. I really have no idea what the granular data would show us - because there is none - at least local to Toronto. Somalia, South Africa, Jamaica, Trinidad, Dominican.....you can't just roll them up as "black people". Who's committing the crimes, where are they coming from? And for heaven's sake, openly acknowledge that there are challenges with each source - and lets have an integrated program that deals with a better incoming filter (immigration) and effective local support systems.

I followed the carding debate here and one of the things that came out of that is the information police gathered is not scientific. One individual who had been carded multiple times managed to get his reports through an FOI request and every cop had assigned him a different ethnicity seemingly at random. Point here: it may be that more data is better than less, but if the data is bad, where are we then? Stats are great, but I don't trust the cops to collect them in a way that is actually useful in developing programs or strategies for crime prevention.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Similar Content

    • By Hussain
      Can you ever imagine a country like Canada not having clean drinking water? In the 1970s the Canadain government promised to bring clean drinking water to all of Canada. Now in 2020 100% of cities of clean drinking water and 99% of rural areas have clean drinking water. the 1% which is missing is the Indigenous reserves. People living on the reserves don't have access to clean drinking water. They are poorly funded. Now the question of what would the Canadian government do if Toronto had no cleaning drinking water?
      BTW if you guys want to know more about me and my youtube channel check it out. I interview high profile politicians including Former PMs and MPs and Senators. 
       
    • By Zeitgeist
      For 40 years Canadians have seen the NHL expand into US markets where the locals have little interest in hockey.  We understand that in some cases this has been a good thing for hockey, expanding interest in the sport and creating new hockey markets.  We also understand that sometimes the local Canadian hockey market couldn’t afford to support the team, as was the case briefly in Winnipeg and Quebec, mainly due to the currency exchange rate.  However, hockey markets like Montreal and especially Toronto are starving for additional NHL teams.  Toronto could easily support an additional two teams, probably one west of the city and one to the north.  
      NHL Commissioner Gary Betman shut down expansion into Toronto when investors wanted to move the money losing Phoenix Coyotes to Toronto.  Betman would rather prop up money losing US teams than add teams in markets where people love hockey and would fill seats in arenas.  Yes there are US expansion success stories, such as Nashville, but it’s ridiculous that teams like the Florida Panthers should exist while Toronto has only one NHL team.  The city of Toronto is now bigger than the city of Chicago, which has two Major League Baseball teams.  If Chicago can support two baseball teams, surely Toronto can support two hockey teams.  
    • By Zeitgeist
      The Ford government has taken over subway construction from the City of Toronto and is pumping billions into Toronto subway expansion, including adding underground stations to the Eglinton Crosstown west to Pearson Airport, extending the Yonge Line into Richmond Hill, adding three stops to the Danforth Line east to McCowan, and most importantly, doubling the length of the proposed Downtown Relief Line (DRL), which was originally to parallel the Yonge Line from Pape Station in the east to Osgoode downtown.  Now the DRL will become the Ontario Line and run from the Science Centre at Eglinton to Ontario Place on Lake Ontario.  
      What do you think of this plan?  I’m all for massive subway expansion but I have questions.  It’s a huge expense to extend the DRL from Queen St. to Ontario Place, which is currently a moribund site that will be rebuilt.  What stations will be added west of Osgoode before the line reaches Ontario Place?   We need to ensure that our subways serve communities and will have viable ridership.  There will still be a Finch LRT, so at least Ford is open to different transit options.  I hope that the Ontario Line at least runs as far west as Bathurst or even Trinity Bellwoods Park before heading south, as the Ontario Line would then really make some of the best areas of the city more accessible.  What are your thoughts?
      https://www.google.ca/search?safe=strict&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&source=hp&ei=SU2zXIiBF86D5wLilKOABw&q=ford+transit+plan&oq=Ford+tran&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.3.0l3j0i131j0l4.3814.8174..11128...1.0..0.277.1135.5j3j1......0....1.......8..35i39j46i131j46.DwroFxbUk-w#
    • By ReeferMadness
      When it comes to budget cuts, police seem to always be sacrosanct. I've seen cuts to teachers, social workers, scientists, all kinds of admin staff and almost every other type of government employee. But not police. Nor, come to think of it, fireman.
      This editorial claims that policing costs have risen faster than the rate of inflation in Canada (at all 3 levels of government) despite a falling crime rate. It also claims that police resources are used inefficiently with $100k a year policeman doing all kinds of work that could be done by lesser trained staff.
      Perhaps when marijuana is legalized, that would be a good opportunity to examine policing needs. Maybe there is an opportunity to redirect resources towards supporting people, not prosecuting them.
    • By Biz Liz
      I have never seen one politician piss off so many people and Canada's two largest newspapers.
      Does Harper have a way to mend fences quickly enough before October 19th? What should he do or say? http://www.whynotharper.ca/#1
  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...