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http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/31/toronto-star-laments-lack-of-racial-crime-data-it-helped-purge-decades-ago/

This is ironic.

The same Toronto Star that seemingly played a central role in purging racial crime statistics collected by the government and prohibiting its future collection is now calling for its aggregation. Years ago, the Toronto Star seemed to champion the faux outrage over "dangerous" statistics regarding race and crime. Now, with its desire to push an agenda of racial agitation and division (drawing inspiration from its ideological allies south of the border), it now wants the very data it helped destroy.

To the credit of the author of the original Toronto Star piece, she chastises her journalistic antecedents for contributing to this purge. She says that more information is always better than less, no matter how uncomfortable it may make some people feel.

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Back in the late eighties/early nineties - a Toronto Police Sergeant was pilloried by the Toronto Star for saying that there was "a disproportionate amount of black crime" in Toronto. The Star was relentless in its denial and the fact there were no statistics to back it up. It's been almost impossible to speak in such terms since - and come to public grips with the causes of rampant black-on-black violence. All you have to do is look at the faces of all the murdered victims in Toronto - the majority are black - and the killers are almost exclusively black. The violence and mayhem is but a tiny part of the black community - but represents a large proportion of crime in Toronto. I've said before - the Toronto Star has been an enabler of the continuing violence in the black community. They have blood on their hands.

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I've said before - the Toronto Star has been an enabler of the continuing violence in the black community. They have blood on their hands.

How, specifically, does not keeping racial crime stats create crime?

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How, specifically, does not keeping racial crime stats create crime?

The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

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The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

There's literally more than 100 years of research on the relationship between race and crime. You think there's something new that we're missing here? Edited by cybercoma

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There's literally more than 100 years of research on the relationship between race and crime.

And there was more than 100 years of research on physics before the 20th century. Nevertheless, much remained to be discovered.

Social sciences are still in their infancy and more data is always helpful.

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You think there's something new that we're missing here?

Do I think that we don't yet know everything there is to know on the topic? Most certainly. There is always more to know.

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The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

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That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

The Toronto Star was the same lot that supported the end of the long form census?

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Do I think that we don't yet know everything there is to know on the topic? Most certainly. There is always more to know.

Absolutely. I'm in favour of Stats Canada keeping more thorough statistics and running surveys more frequently. But then in the last 10 years, we've seen many longitudinal surveys ended (as well as the end of the long-form census). The priority of the Conservative government is not better and more accurate data for reasoned policy analysis and creation. It's literally the exact opposite. Less clear data, more obfuscation, and a reliance on ideology over researched, fact-based policy.

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The less you know about a problem that may exist, the less you can create appropriate policies that may ameliorate the problem.

Exactly. We've got virtually zero statistics across the country due to hysteria from the left. Now, trying to import the neo-Marxist #BlackLivesMatter narrative into Canada, the left wants data to misrepresent.

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Exactly. We've got virtually zero statistics across the country due to hysteria from the left. Now, trying to import the neo-Marxist #BlackLivesMatter narrative into Canada, the left wants data to misrepresent.

I don't understand how crime statistics are going to help such a thing. All they will probably show is that blacks commit a lot of violent crime in Canada. That is what the statistics show in the US and UK, after all. I would expect complete crime statistics to show that aside from family violence, most violence in Canada is done by visible minorities, blacks, natives, asians, arabs, etc. How does this help make a case that police are treating black people badly?

Edited by Civis Romanus sum

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That's a very different thing than "enabling" crime, though.

That this sudden thirst for information is coming from the same lot that supported the end of the long form census shows there's no principle at work here, just point-scoring.

No it's not. If you actively strive to create an environment where no one can even mention race-stats - and those stats could be used to create programs that specifically target problem areas......then you are enabling the continuation of crime. The Star has done that in spades.......and that's why I say they have blood on their hands.

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No it's not. If you actively strive to create an environment where no one can even mention race-stats - and those stats could be used to create programs that specifically target problem areas......then you are enabling the continuation of crime. The Star has done that in spades.......and that's why I say they have blood on their hands.

You said yourself you know where the problems are and who is causing and being victimized by them. Betting that the cops and social service agencies on the ground do to. What specific information are you lacking? Then there's the assumption that having that information would actually make a difference, which is a pretty big leap given the gap between knowing and doing.

FTR, I'm not against more stats, I'm against intellectually bankrupt partisan arguments.

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You said yourself you know where the problems are and who is causing and being victimized by them. Betting that the cops and social service agencies on the ground do to. What specific information are you lacking? Then there's the assumption that having that information would actually make a difference, which is a pretty big leap given the gap between knowing and doing.

FTR, I'm not against more stats, I'm against intellectually bankrupt partisan arguments.

What could be less partisan that having data to make informed decisions? Let the facts speak. It's an injustice to generalize with the term "black people" who span dozens of countries with a swath of different cultural and political differences. I really have no idea what the granular data would show us - because there is none - at least local to Toronto. Somalia, South Africa, Jamaica, Trinidad, Dominican.....you can't just roll them up as "black people". Who's committing the crimes, where are they coming from? And for heaven's sake, openly acknowledge that there are challenges with each source - and lets have an integrated program that deals with a better incoming filter (immigration) and effective local support systems.

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What could be less partisan that having data to make informed decisions?

I agree. But that's not where this is all coming from, is it? The OP is using this as a "gotcha" moment (I guess one must rigidly adhere to ideas at all times and never change one's mind).

Let the facts speak. It's an injustice to generalize with the term "black people" who span dozens of countries with a swath of different cultural and political differences. I really have no idea what the granular data would show us - because there is none - at least local to Toronto. Somalia, South Africa, Jamaica, Trinidad, Dominican.....you can't just roll them up as "black people". Who's committing the crimes, where are they coming from? And for heaven's sake, openly acknowledge that there are challenges with each source - and lets have an integrated program that deals with a better incoming filter (immigration) and effective local support systems.

I followed the carding debate here and one of the things that came out of that is the information police gathered is not scientific. One individual who had been carded multiple times managed to get his reports through an FOI request and every cop had assigned him a different ethnicity seemingly at random. Point here: it may be that more data is better than less, but if the data is bad, where are we then? Stats are great, but I don't trust the cops to collect them in a way that is actually useful in developing programs or strategies for crime prevention.

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