Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
jacee

Delusional Nostalgia Is Killing White Men

Recommended Posts

This has been a frequent discussion here on mlw, the disillusionment and disentitlement angst of the white male, in an era of increasing rights of women and people of colour, decreasing job opportunities for the working class due to globalization, baby boomers hogging jobs, and whatever else is blamed.

It is killing white working class males ... or rather, they are killing themselves ... with substance abuse.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/how-delusional-nostalgia-killing-white-working-class?akid=13700.264377.Tb-rw-&rd=1&src=newsletter1046232&t=2

But the biggest story is researchers discovery that between 1999 and 2014, the mortality rate for white Americans age 45 to 54 without a college degree soared by 22 percent. ... counter to trends for every other related group. Mortality rates for African Americans and Hispanics continue to fall, as do those of white working-class Americans peers in wealthy nations around the world. Even among American whites, the phenomenon is limited to blue-collar communities. White Americans with at least some college education saw their death rates flatline, while the mortality of those with at least a bachelors degree actually declined.

The usual culpritsheart disease and cancer, among othersare not to blame here. Researchers find this rise in deaths is instead largely attributable to substance abuse and other forms of self-harm. As the Guardian notes, Princeton researchers found that deaths from drug overdoses and alcohol poisoning rose fourfold, suicides by 81 percent, and deaths from liver disease and cirrhosis by 50 percent. For this least-educated group, deaths from all causes rose more than a fifth.

The article discusses why this might be the case:

Lyndon Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." The desperate fear of losing ground to the "other, and politicians successful exploitation of that fear has created a white working-class that increasingly works against itself and eats its own. It votes to send its children to war and against its own pocketbook. It shouts that it wants to Take back our country, and leaves no question as to who it thinks has stolen it. (The irony here is positively rich!)

Edit...

(Republican?) politicians exploiting fears ... convincing working class men to blame women and minority groups ... while they 'pick their pockets' - ie, bosses tell them they can't afford to give them raises because of the women and immigrants or some such nonsense.

Sounds accurate to me.

.

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Republican politicians exploiting fears ... convincing working class men to blame women and minority groups ... while they 'pick their pockets' - ie, bosses tell them they can't afford to give them raises because of the women and immigrants or some such nonsense.

The white male has been vilified for decades by "progressives" for decades and now these same progressives who created the problem are now blaming others for a problem they created! Progressives are generally completely delusional when it comes to acknowledging the negative consequences of their pet policies but this particular spin takes the progressive self delusion into a whole new level of crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a frequent discussion here on mlw, the disillusionment and disentitlement angst of the white male, in an era of increasing rights of women and people of colour, decreasing job opportunities for the working class due to globalization, baby boomers hogging jobs, and whatever else is blamed.

It is killing white working class males ... or rather, they are killing themselves ... with substance abuse.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/how-delusional-nostalgia-killing-white-working-class?akid=13700.264377.Tb-rw-&rd=1&src=newsletter1046232&t=2

But the biggest story is researchers discovery that between 1999 and 2014, the mortality rate for white Americans age 45 to 54 without a college degree soared by 22 percent. ... counter to trends for every other related group. Mortality rates for African Americans and Hispanics continue to fall, as do those of white working-class Americans peers in wealthy nations around the world. Even among American whites, the phenomenon is limited to blue-collar communities. White Americans with at least some college education saw their death rates flatline, while the mortality of those with at least a bachelors degree actually declined.

The usual culpritsheart disease and cancer, among othersare not to blame here. Researchers find this rise in deaths is instead largely attributable to substance abuse and other forms of self-harm. As the Guardian notes, Princeton researchers found that deaths from drug overdoses and alcohol poisoning rose fourfold, suicides by 81 percent, and deaths from liver disease and cirrhosis by 50 percent. For this least-educated group, deaths from all causes rose more than a fifth.

The article discusses why this might be the case:

Lyndon Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." The desperate fear of losing ground to the "other, and politicians successful exploitation of that fear has created a white working-class that increasingly works against itself and eats its own. It votes to send its children to war and against its own pocketbook. It shouts that it wants to Take back our country, and leaves no question as to who it thinks has stolen it. (The irony here is positively rich!)

Republican politicians exploiting fears ... convincing working class men to blame women and minority groups ... while they 'pick their pockets' - ie, bosses tell them they can't afford to give them raises because of the women and immigrants or some such nonsense.

Sounds accurate to me.

.

Lyndon Johnson was a democrat.

There is no attempt at debate, you are just stating your misandrist and bigoted view points.

Edited by drummindiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lyndon Johnson was a democrat.

There is no attempt at debate, you are just stating your misandrist and bigoted comments.

As well, such a quote is *attributed* to LBJ. Who knows if he said it for real?

But, it's cute that he's often thought of as a Republican.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Men are killing themselves at like 3 times the rate of women. This is across races, countries, cultures and levels of income.

The white male has been vilified for decades by "progressives"

Yes. I was born into vilification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lyndon Johnson was a democrat.

There is no attempt at debate, you are just stating your misandrist and bigoted view points.

You are right. I debated using the word Republican, and I likely shouldn't have. I've revised it a bit.

I quoted.

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The white male has been vilified for decades by "progressives" for decades and now these same progressives who created the problem are now blaming others for a problem they created! Progressives are generally completely delusional when it comes to acknowledging the negative consequences of their pet policies but this particular spin takes the progressive self delusion into a whole new level of crazy.

Equal rights was just a concept whose time had come.

The point, in case you missed it, is that rich and powerful white men teach poor working stiff white men to vilify and blame people of colour, women, immigrants, etc. for the fact that rich and powerful white men lay them off to manufacture cheaper overseas, won't give them raises, etc. etc.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As well, such a quote is *attributed* to LBJ. Who knows if he said it for real?

But, it's cute that he's often thought of as a Republican.

Doesn't matter who said it. It's an interesting thought, worthy of consideration.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Equal rights was just a concept whose time had come.

It has nothing to do with equal rights. It is the absurd fiction that white men living today are should feel guilty for the errors of the past. It is a child support system design to screw over men and reward women in the name of 'best interests of the child'.

The point, in case you missed it, is that rich and powerful white men teach poor working stiff white men to vilify and blame people of colour, women, immigrants, etc. for the fact that rich and powerful white men lay them off to manufacture cheaper overseas, won't give them raises, etc. etc.

No. That is the fiction you want to spread. People are not puppets that simply do what they are told. Any resentment towards minorities comes from peoples experience in their daily lives and if these resentments exist it more likely comes from the endless stream of anti-male/anti-white propaganda that people like you spread.

It should not be hard to understand: if you tell a group of people that they are to blame for everything you should expect this group of people to react badly. If you really believe in equal rights then you should start by treating everyone as equals - not by dividing society between oppressors and victims and showering special privileges on the designated victims.

Edited by TimG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is the absurd fiction that white men living today are should feel guilty for the errors of the past.

I agree that you are responsible for your own feelings. People should know facts, but how they "feel" is their own business. If people aren't telling you how to feel, and you resent being told information then your guilt is probably genuine and you shouldn't deny it.

Any resentment towards minorities comes from peoples experience in their daily lives and if these resentments exist it more likely comes from the endless stream of anti-male/anti-white propaganda that people like you spread.

So racism comes from:

1) Actual experience interacting with those whom you are targeting

2) anti-male/anti-white propaganda.

So racist folklore and learned racism simply doesn't exist then ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

White people need to suck it up, even if they're impoverished and uneducated they still have some nebulous white privilege.

I am distinguishing between white working men ... and their white bosses who mislead them by creating fear and hatred of the 'others', so they can talk their workers into low pay, no benefits, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If people aren't telling you how to feel, and you resent being told information then your guilt is probably genuine and you shouldn't deny it.

The concept of "white privilege" is not about the past. It is the claim that anyone white could not have gotten where they have if it was not for the alleged advantage they have because of white skin.

It is possible to communicate facts without assigning blame. i.e. the fact that people from certain minorities do poorly on a number of metrics is a fact without blame. It only becomes blame when individuals are told they are some how responsible for these aggregate metrics.

So racist folklore and learned racism simply doesn't exist then ?

It does but racist ideas don't lead to suicide. That only comes from a feeling of helplessness and people telling you that you are to blame for your problems will only exacerbate the problems. People telling you others are to blame would help re-establish your self worth - not take it away as the op would like to believe. Edited by TimG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The concept of "white privilege" is not about the past.

I don't know why you bring up this point but it doesn't address what I said. Again - you own your feelings, not somebody else. If you don't like the information then you can debate it.

It does...

Ok. I'll take that amendment. I didn't think your post meant to list all the causes of racism.

I would rather stay out of the debate of whether people are to "blame" or people feeling "guilty". Feel what you're going to feel. Debate the facts. Everything in between is a discussion of values, so understanding and empathy should be at play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has nothing to do with equal rights. It is the absurd fiction that white men living today are should feel guilty for the errors of the past.

Guilt is a useless concept.

Do something constructive instead.

Thanks for acknowledging "errors of the past".

And of course it has to do with errors in equality.

Errors have to be corrected.

But blame for the conditions of working white men belongs to greedy cheapskate fear and hatemongering bosses, not women and minorities.

.

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather stay out of the debate of whether people are to "blame" or people feeling "guilty". Feel what you're going to feel. Debate the facts. Everything in between is a discussion of values, so understanding and empathy should be at play.

I think you missed the point of the op. The fact in question is that white males are committing suicide at much higher rates. The op tried to blame a group of people for that fact. My argument is explaining why that attempt to assign blame makes no sense.

IOW - you cannot get away from the discussion of blame because that is what this thread is all about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cripes, you are totally missing the point of the article and the discussion.

I did not miss anything. You want to blame "rich white men" for the spike in suicide rates. I am pointing out how absurd your premise is. BTW - the child support system is NOT off topic because men do commit suicide because of how they are treated by the courts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you missed the point of the op. The fact in question is that white males are committing suicide at much higher rates. The op tried to blame a group of people for that fact. My argument is explaining why that attempt to assign blame makes no sense.

IOW - you cannot get away from the discussion of blame because that is what this thread is all about.

Not just suicide (read the article yet?)

Not all white males.

Just working class men.

If I had written the article, it's title might have been:

'Hatemongering and hopelessness is killing white working class men'.

And just to be VERY clear ... I am not vilifying white working class men.

I am saying they are being victimized by white fearmongering bosses who deflect blame for low pay/layoffs/poor working conditions onto 'women and minorities' ... while they offshore operations and laugh at the working stiffs ... all the way to the bank with their bloated salaries and profits.

But oh no! They can't afford to give a man a raise ... because of the ... women and minorities ... low wages in China ... Etc.

That's the scam. Deflecting blame from the bosses, raising fears and hatred among the working men.

.

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just suicide (read the article yet?)

Not all white males.

Just working class men.

Substance abuse is suicide on the installment plan. And there are working class people of every race so the question is: what is unique about the situation of white working class men? Limited job opportunities are not enough to explain. Limited job opportunities AND a culture that blames white men for the woes of the world would explain it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about low wages, limited opportunities, insecure employment ... while bosses with increasingly grotesque salaries and profits tell them to blame women and minorities, so they won't organize to strike for better wages?!

IE, keeping them struggling, helpless, hopeless, and full of rage ... at the wrong targets.

That's a recipe for substance abuse and bad health outcomes.

Republican leaders barrage the lower middle class with attacks on the bad people (immigrants, Muslims) who do not look or talk like them and threaten their lives and jobs. They play on the lower middle class' impulse to believe themselves better than some other group which becomes the basis for their own self-esteem. The Republicans insist that the presence of Latino immigrants and Muslims are the reasons for the lower class' dissatisfaction with their life. Such arguments divert the middle class from insisting on higher wages and better programs that will adversely affect the rich supporters of the Party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The op tried to blame a group of people for that fact. My argument is explaining why that attempt to assign blame makes no sense.

IOW - you cannot get away from the discussion of blame because that is what this thread is all about.

I don't see it that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right. I debated using the word Republican, and I likely shouldn't have. I've revised it a bit.

I quoted.

Ya think ? The intended purpose and bias could not be more obvious. The United States is far more complicated than your agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya think ? The intended purpose and bias could not be more obvious. The United States is far more complicated than your agenda.

Don't you have Turkey to eat or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about low wages, limited opportunities, insecure employment ...

yada yada yada. Yes life is tough for people without a college education today. But trying to blame that on a gross stereotype of a political opinion you don't agree with is absurd. If anything resentment motivates people to action - not suicide. To encourage suicide you need to encourage feelings of guilt and hopelessness which the "progressive" agenda does with it 'white men are the root of all evil' propaganda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...