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Is the United Nations still useful for anything that benefits us all?

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Sorry to say, but I lost my faith in this corrupt organization that serves the political will of a few super powers and does little to keep the peace, stop Russian and American invasions, and has no way to punish any member of the Veto-holding members. They consume a lot of money and are seldom objective as delegates (ambassadors) trade their votes for favors and money. http://www.defenddemocracy.org/united-nations-corruption-and-the-need-for-reform/

Like the IMF, WTO, and World Bank, the UN has become just another organization that serves the elite who have their own agendas. Yeah they operate UNICEF and a few good agencies, but overall it is a political machine that favors western and specifically American foreign policies. http://www.economist.com/node/4267109

Edited by Special Delivery
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I believe that this this "Son of League of Nations" has prevented many useless wars.

If the only purpose that it serves would be a venue where nations (and/or their representatives) are able to meet to discuss their differences, then it has performed a vital function. Currently, there is no global venue available for secure discussions.

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.... but overall it is a political machine that favors western and specifically American foreign policies.

The United States pays for 22% - 25% of the UN's budget, depending on the program. Want more balance? Pay more than the Americans.

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I read a thread about this topic on an inferior political forum, so I thought I would post it here to garner opinions on this issue.  The UN seems to becoming obsolete and corrupt.  Perhaps it is time to disbanded it, in favor of something new and more effective. It's starting to remind me of the League of Nations.

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The United Nations failed right out of the gate and to understand why you have to go back to the Second World War and the naive assumptions of its progenitor Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

FDR was a Communist sympathizer who was enthralled by Joseph Stalin, or as FDR called him "my dear Mister Stalin".

FDR's vision was that America and the Soviet Union were going to rule the world together in the aftermath of the war, a new world order under the banner of a "United Nations".

The failure was baked into the cake, because obviously Stalin and the Soviets were not who FDR believed them to be, and as soon as the war was over, things fell apart rather quickly.

Because it was FDR's legacy project it had momentum, but once he was dead it simply became a Self Licking Ice Cream Cone boondoggle which it has been ever since.

There's no real impetus to get rid of it so long as the Americans are willing to pay for it, but it's folly to think you are going to replace it with something which is going to work better.

In the end, Hegemons with thermonuclear deterrents are not going to submit themselves to a collective government, what you see is what you're going to get, no matter how you slice it.

Frankly it would be existentially dangerous to try to empower such an institution with any sort of force behind it, as that would simply incite said Hegmons to invoke their deterrents and that's how accidents happen wherein your children die in a nuclear firestorm.

These One World Government schemes are naive utopianism, they just get people killed, and at the level of Hegemons, that could be billions of people in the end.

The two stage fission-fusion thermonuclear bomb rendered this fantasy a deadly delusion.

The Americans already tried the UN route in 1962 and almost blew themselves up, after that, no more UN, they went to a Red Phone straight from the White House to the Kremlin because confrontation at the UN just muddied the very deep and dangerous waters of the Cold War.

At 15 minutes notice to launch on warning hair trigger alert; nobody puts baby in a corner.   That's why it doesn't work and it's never going to work.

One world kumbaya nuclear disarmament?  Yeah, that's not happening neither, because of these utopian fantasies of global governance, ever more countries are breaking out with their own deterrents in the face of it so they too cannot be put in a corner, and now we are up to nine and counting. . .

Edited by Dougie93
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I worked for the ICAO -the UN building in Montréal-.

The whole building is a waste of space and money.

Nothing happens there. But we can "boast" about how much Canada and Montréal are connected to the world -by wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayers money every year-.

I have confidentiality agreement and may not get into the juicy details in this thread. But there should be investigations on a broader scale as to how money is spent by the federal government.

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15 hours ago, J4L said:

I read a thread about this topic on an inferior political forum, so I thought I would post it here to garner opinions on this issue.  The UN seems to becoming obsolete and corrupt.  Perhaps it is time to disbanded it, in favor of something new and more effective. It's starting to remind me of the League of Nations.

The "inferior" forum posted the article cite for the topic.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/geoffrey-clarfield-the-united-nations-is-losing-staggering-sums-to-corruption-mismanagement-and-bad-decision-making

I notice you've done this a few times now - gone to the "inferior" forum for topic ideas, steal them and post them here.  Weird.

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5 hours ago, Goddess said:

The "inferior" forum posted the article cite for the topic.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/geoffrey-clarfield-the-united-nations-is-losing-staggering-sums-to-corruption-mismanagement-and-bad-decision-making

I notice you've done this a few times now - gone to the "inferior" forum for topic ideas, steal them and post them here.  Weird.

This is a better forum since MLW is actually moderated.  Bullying of members is not really encouraged. The way Rue is treated on that forum is horrible.  I feel much more welcome on this forum.  You should boycott said forum too.  The bullying and personal attacks are off the charts.

 

Having said that, what is your opinion of the UN?

Edited by J4L
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On 6/18/2019 at 6:11 PM, J4L said:

I read a thread about this topic on an inferior political forum, so I thought I would post it here to garner opinions on this issue.  The UN seems to becoming obsolete and corrupt.  Perhaps it is time to disbanded it, in favor of something new and more effective. It's starting to remind me of the League of Nations.

I think the only reason the UN is so pointless and useless is that so many human beings simply can't stand the thought of being united.  It's just to progressive - ergo too much like communism - for the usual suspects to ever put their hearts into it.

It would almost make more sense to let it become a conservative organization and then try to change the system from within after the idea has planted firmer roots.  OTOH that might just as easily make us drive off the cliff even faster.

Either way, pass the popcorn.  

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On 8/7/2019 at 4:26 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

What’s the alternative to the UN?

Maybe the United States of America, controlled by powerful lobby groups.

At least right now, there are some descending voices speaking out against the powers and creating some positives within the UN.

You ask a good question Spanky. What is the alternative? 

People who are against the UN, always want to reduce the UN to the inefficiencies and the circus which is part of it. The UN does go beyond the Human Rights Council with Saudi Arabia sitting in as a member. There are a lot of worthy UN programs out there that are keeping people from dying. These deaths are a result of chaos that is created by lawlessness around the world and the systematic hegemony and extortion by the West. 

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Perhaps you can list a few of these note worthy programs , ones that are not littered with corruption or ones that western nations end up funding in the end because nobody  else wants to get involved....No mention of any extortion by the Middle east, or Asia, mother Russia..... 

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On 6/18/2019 at 6:11 PM, J4L said:

I read a thread about this topic on an inferior political forum, so I thought I would post it here to garner opinions on this issue.  The UN seems to becoming obsolete and corrupt.  Perhaps it is time to disbanded it, in favor of something new and more effective. It's starting to remind me of the League of Nations.

Having the League of Nations, and now the United Nations, and what have they done to create world peace and stop hunger and poverty and wars? Most of those 3rd world countries in the UN are countries that are run by dictators and communists and are involved in corruption and other crimes against their own people. What good could another outfit like those two would be able to do that those two others cannot? It would again just create the loss and waste of billions of taxpayer's tax dollars and nothing would ever get resolved. It would just create more bureaucracy and jobs for more bureaucrats for a bunch of useless twits and nothing will ever get done. The best thing for Canada and other western countries to do is to get out of the UN altogether. The UN had it's day. Go away UN, abolish yourself. Works for me.  

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On 8/7/2019 at 4:26 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

What’s the alternative to the UN?

Dikko. :D

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On 8/10/2019 at 1:34 PM, marcus said:

Maybe the United States of America, controlled by powerful lobby groups.

At least right now, there are some descending voices speaking out against the powers and creating some positives within the UN.

You ask a good question Spanky. What is the alternative? 

People who are against the UN, always want to reduce the UN to the inefficiencies and the circus which is part of it. The UN does go beyond the Human Rights Council with Saudi Arabia sitting in as a member. There are a lot of worthy UN programs out there that are keeping people from dying. These deaths are a result of chaos that is created by lawlessness around the world and the systematic hegemony and extortion by the West. 

So, in other words, the United Nations has not done a dam thing to stop chaos and lawlessness and deaths of innocent people around the world. The only way for those countries to get anywhere is to try and fight for their human rights. If they are not willing to do so then good luck to them and stop bothering and whining to the rest of the world. I am one taxpayer that has had enough of the UN and watching my tax dollars constantly go down the drain. I demand a vote on whether Canada should remain in the UN or not. Why are all these new world order organizations that get formed and are created without the permission of we the people first? We never get a say about anything. We are just told to shut up and pay for it. Rip off. 

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19 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Perhaps you can list a few of these note worthy programs , ones that are not littered with corruption or ones that western nations end up funding in the end because nobody  else wants to get involved....No mention of any extortion by the Middle east, or Asia, mother Russia..... 

The World Health Organization is fairly useful. 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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Yes perhaps they are some what useful, but even you don't sound convinced ... but do you think as a western nation we can not decide how to act on our health problems, could we not get better source of advice or direction by talking to and sharing info amongst other western nations. What do we get out of this union that we could not or have not already known...Besides most of the western nations pay for and respond to these health crises, Ebola for example...so why pay twice for the same service....

Not that wiki is a good source of info , these sources do check out. Take a stroll down the page , here is some of them...

 

Quote

 

Block of Taiwanese participation[edit]

Political pressure from China has led to Taiwan being barred from membership of the WHO and other UN-affiliated organizations, and in both 2017 and 2018 the WHO refused to allow Taiwanese delegates to attend the WHO annual assembly.[142] On multiple occasions Taiwanese journalists have been denied access to report on the assembly.[143]

In May 2018, 172 members of the United States House of Representatives wrote to the Director General of the World Health Organization to argue for Taiwan's inclusion as an observer at the WHA.[144]

 

I thought these organizations would be less open to outside political pressures

 

 

Quote

 

Travel expenses[edit]

According to The Associated Press, the WHO routinely spends about $200 million a year on travel expenses, more than it spends to tackle mental health problems, HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria combined. In 2016, Margaret Chan, Director-General of WHO from November 2006 to June 2017,[145] stayed in a $1000 per night hotel room while visiting West Africa.[146]

 

 

More misuse of funds...

 

 

Quote

 

Robert Mugabe's role as a goodwill ambassador[edit]

On 21 October 2017, the Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus appointed former Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe as a WHO Goodwill Ambassador to help promote the fight against non-communicable diseases. The appointment address praised Mugabe for his commitment to public health in Zimbabwe.

The appointment attracted widespread condemnation and criticism in WHO member states and international organizations due to Robert Mugabe's poor record on human rights and presiding over a decline in Zimbabwe's public health.[147][148] Due to the outcry, the following day the appointment was revoked.[149]

 

 

this one is my favorite....

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/unicef-spending/2008/12/15/id/327113/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization

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One major problem some outfit run by a few rich countries would have is credibility and access. WHO works in many remote locations of the developing world. The co-operation of local societies and governments for such projects is vital.

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On 8/10/2019 at 4:34 PM, marcus said:

 

People who are against the UN, always want to reduce the UN to the inefficiencies and the circus which is part of it. The UN does go beyond the Human Rights Council with Saudi Arabia sitting in as a member. There are a lot of worthy UN programs out there that are keeping people from dying. These deaths are a result of chaos that is created by lawlessness around the world and the systematic hegemony and extortion by the West. 

Great point.  Even the security council, as useless as it is, represents a structure to address international security issues.  It is mostly dysfunctional, but those countries who would get rid of it would likely also like to annex neighbours without fear of reprisal.

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Does anyone here feel that the United Nations has done anything in anyway that has made the world a better and safe place to live since the UN was founded? We have had plenty of small wars go on since the UN came into existence. We still have plenty of poverty and hunger and there are millions of refugees all around and all living in many third world countries, and there seems to be no end in site. Is it time for the UN to fold up and pretty much go away for good? I think so.

There has been hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of our western tax dollars that have been pretty much blown on and by the UN and all of it's bureaucracy. It seems all the countries that have delegates at the UN are not doing much of a great job in trying to create peace in the world or in trying to stop hunger, poverty or the plight of refugees. I think that it is time that the UN be abolished as they really have not done a very good job at all at trying to solve anything. Is the UN really all that necessary to keep around anymore? I do not think so.

So, what say you? Should the United Nations be abolished or not? Any comments? :)

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As much as I am disgusted by the corruption and waste within the UN, I think there really needs to be a forum for international co-operation.  BUT:  I also think that the major donor (s) need to grab it by the throat and prosecute wrongdoing within as well as representing THEIR tax payers and seeing that money is not wasted.

BTW: I think the whole thing would be very different today if Garbechov had prevailed instead of Putin.   Garby was actually one of the good guys...quite a thing to say about a former KGB head.

Edited by cannuck

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3 hours ago, cannuck said:

As much as I am disgusted by the corruption and waste within the UN, I think there really needs to be a forum for international co-operation.  BUT:  I also think that the major donor (s) need to grab it by the throat and prosecute wrongdoing within as well as representing THEIR tax payers and seeing that money is not wasted.

BTW: I think the whole thing would be very different today if Garbechov had prevailed instead of Putin.   Garby was actually one of the good guys...quite a thing to say about a former KGB head.

The amount of UN corruption and waste is incredible. The place needs to go. The Canadian taxpayer's have lost enough tax dollars trying to keep propping up this useless organization. It is for dam sure that Trudeau will never grab the UN by the throat and throttle and have anyone prosecuted. Problem is that Trudeau is one of the problems. But what can one expect from someone like Trudeau who we all know is crooked and corrupt. The UN is up his alley so to speak. :D   

Putin was also a KGB officer at one time. But Putin has done more to make Russia a much more freer nation. Putin brought back religion to Russia. A commie would never allow that. People can now demonstrate and not have to worry about getting shot by the old communist KGB. Russia is a lot better off place to live today than what it was like 30 years ago. Putin will make Russia free and great again. ;)

 

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On 8/10/2019 at 5:34 PM, marcus said:

 

People who are against the UN, always want to reduce the UN to the inefficiencies and the circus which is part of it. The UN does go beyond the Human Rights Council with Saudi Arabia sitting in as a member. There are a lot of worthy UN programs out there that are keeping people from dying. These deaths are a result of chaos that is created by lawlessness around the world and the systematic hegemony and extortion by the West. 

Nobody is saying that the entire organization is not worth some time or money but to be honest here, the portions that are poisoned far our weigh the portions that are doing any good. One also has to face reality here, most of the UN is funded by the West so why would it not have more influence, Next is the UN body itself is made up to favor the original members, it's not set up to solve issues but rather have them voted on by 2 sides of a coin western side and communist side for lacking a better name,  one side normally veto's the other...instead of have a world body where every nation has one vote that counts the same as the next.. Next it does not have a standing army, or police so it can not enforce any outcome good or bad, other than sanctions and they are not very effective...

On 8/16/2019 at 7:27 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Great point.  Even the security council, as useless as it is, represents a structure to address international security issues.  It is mostly dysfunctional, but those countries who would get rid of it would likely also like to annex neighbours without fear of reprisal.

And yet even with the UN in existence , we have seen Mother Russia annex the Crimean peninsula with very little consequence. So are we at that point today where the UN is no more than a figure head in the grand scheme of things. 

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On 8/7/2019 at 7:26 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

What’s the alternative to the UN?

Good question. Same principles with no partisan politics which probably means it's a concept that sounds great but can not happen.

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