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Do you really think in this day and age the studios don't have very up to date and exact statistics on the demographics of their audiences?

Hispanics and African-Americans make up more than half of frequent movie goers. They most certainly are leaving money on the table.

Especially when over 90% of the decision makers in Hollywood are white men.

Edited by WestCoastRunner
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Hispanics and African-Americans make up more than half of frequent movie goers. They most certainly are leaving money on the table.

Especially when over 90% of the decision makers in Hollywood are white men.

If 90% of the decision makers are white men, yet more than 50% movie goers are black or hispanic, wouldn't you agree that these white men know what their doing? If anything, assuming your stats are true, then white men are not reaching the white audience enough.

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If 90% of the decision makers are white men, yet more than 50% movie goers are black or hispanic, wouldn't you agree that these white men know what their doing? If anything, assuming your stats are true, then white men are not reaching the white audience enough.

No they don't. And they aren't reaching as far as they can with women either. Seriously, this is a no brainer.

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No they don't. And they aren't reaching as far as they can with women either. Seriously, this is a no brainer.

And how would they reach more women? More romantic comedies? More man hater movies? Maybe they can turn Luke Skywalker into a woman and Han Solo into a black guy...Oh yeah, already done!

Look, Hollywood knows their target audience for whatever film they're producing. And they generally do it quite well.

Personally, I don't see many movies at theatres because...well, there is very little new as far as concepts go. Women aren't supposed to be interested in shoot 'em ups like The Expendables and men aren't targeted for movies like Notting Hill. Whites aren't targeted for Selma and adults aren't the target audience for most Disney or Pixar movies. Sometimes movies like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Batman etc cross over quite well, but generally these people know who will go watch and who won't.

None of this equals racism or bigotry.

You said yourself, they aren't reaching women. With a movie like "Fast and furious" or something, they're not trying to. Not every movie can be all things to all people. It is, what it is.

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What I said was that its not as attractive to middle class teens and twentysomethings as white.

It's about focus groups. They're shown a bunch of pictures. They chose what they like MOST. Which is usually people who are MOST like them.

In reality, probably most Whites don't find Blacks AS attractive. If you examine the facial characteristics which are most prized in our largely white culture, they mostly don't line up very well with the characteristic negroid facial features.

W. T. F.

Mind being more specific? I'd like to know exactly what features about black people you find unattractive.

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And how would they reach more women? More romantic comedies? More man hater movies? Maybe they can turn Luke Skywalker into a woman and Han Solo into a black guy...Oh yeah, already done!

Look, Hollywood knows their target audience for whatever film they're producing. And they generally do it quite well.

Personally, I don't see many movies at theatres because...well, there is very little new as far as concepts go. Women aren't supposed to be interested in shoot 'em ups like The Expendables and men aren't targeted for movies like Notting Hill. Whites aren't targeted for Selma and adults aren't the target audience for most Disney or Pixar movies. Sometimes movies like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Batman etc cross over quite well, but generally these people know who will go watch and who won't.

None of this equals racism or bigotry.

You said yourself, they aren't reaching women. With a movie like "Fast and furious" or something, they're not trying to. Not every movie can be all things to all people. It is, what it is.

You are playing into the stereotypes of movie watchers. Women only like romance and don't like action movies? Men don't like romance? You insult all movie goers.

Btw. I watched Selma, 12 years a slave etc. But, how could that be. I'm a white female.

Edited by WestCoastRunner
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You are playing into the stereotypes of movie watchers. Women only like romance and don't like action movies? Men don't like romance? You insult all movie goers.

Btw. I watched Selma, 12 years a slave etc. But, how could that be. I'm a white female.

Aren't you also playing into stereotypes when you imply that white men can't make movies that would appeal to other demographics?

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Aren't you also playing into stereotypes when you imply that white men can't make movies that would appeal to other demographics?

No I'm not. You only need to look at the movies being produced by white men. Edited by WestCoastRunner
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You are playing into the stereotypes of movie watchers.

Sterotypes are often based on statistical data. People making movies don't care that not everyone in their target market likes a particular genre. All they care about is attracting enough of the target market to make the movie a success.

Btw. I watched Selma, 12 years a slave etc. But, how could that be. I'm a white female.

Remedial logic lesson: saying that X is targeted at group Y does not imply that people who are not in group Y must dislike X.

Lastly, there is one thing that matters more than anything else: how likely is the target market to buy a movie ticket? This last factor means that target markets for movies will never reflect the statistical distribution of the population because the desire to see a movie is not randomly distributed.

Edited by TimG
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No I'm not. You only need to look at the movies being produced by white men.

So, I don't pay attention to producers and directors - but can you honestly tell the difference? I think most of what comes out of hollywood is schlock, with the occasional gem.

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Sterotypes are often based on statistical data. People making movies don't care that not everyone in their target market likes a particular genre. All they care about is attracting enough of the target market to make the movie a success.

Remedial logic lesson: saying that X is targeted at group Y does not imply that people who are not in group Y must dislike X.

I am addressing Hal's statement.

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So, I don't pay attention to producers and directors - but can you honestly tell the difference? I think most of what comes out of hollywood is schlock, with the occasional gem.

And the schlock comes mostly from the 90% white men who call the shots. The occasional gem comes from an indie film

Edited by WestCoastRunner
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And the schlock comes mostly from the 90% white men who call the shots.

And if a 'minority perspective' was a ticket to box office gold the 'white men' would supporting those projects. There is free market in movie production and no one is prevented from funding a movie that suits their prejudices. The lack of success is a reflection of the lack of demand rather than a barriers that prevent supply.
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And if a 'minority perspective' was a ticket to box office gold the 'white men' would supporting those projects. There is free market in movie production and no one is prevented from funding a movie that suits their prejudices. The lack of success is a reflection of the lack of demand rather than a barriers that prevent supply.

Again, you only need to look at the returns of those financially successful movies that don't have lead white male roles to understand that your statement is simply not true.

This again goes back to my 'leaving money on the table'. I don't disagree that films with white male leads are a money maker but so are others. Hence the 'money left on the table'.

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I can only speak for me but I find women of all skin tones attractive. :P

But seriously, is this still 1955?

Dare I say "try black, you never go back". Joking, joking! Just wanted to add some humour. Edited by WestCoastRunner
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Again, you only need to look at the returns of those financially successful movies that don't have lead white male roles to understand that your statement is simply not true.

If your statement is actually true and not simply wishful thinking on your part then I would expect to see more of the same. Hollywood is driven by money. If one studio turns down a money making opportunity then another one will pick it up. IOW, the world will evolve as it should and there is nothing to complain about.

Incidentally, audiences in non-English speaking, non white areas of the world are large and growing source of revenue for Hollywood studios. This is already having an impact on the type and story of movies produced (See http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20130620-is-china-hollywoods-future).

If Hollywood’s movies are conveying US values to the rest of the world then a consequence of the increased reliance on overseas audiences is that certain American narratives are being omitted. The stories of African Americans, never well served by Hollywood at the best of times, have often had to struggle to find an audience in the international marketplace.

In other words, the concerns of American Blacks are not relevant outside of the US. Edited by TimG
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Again, you only need to look at the returns of those financially successful movies that don't have lead white male roles to understand that your statement is simply not true.

This again goes back to my 'leaving money on the table'. I don't disagree that films with white male leads are a money maker but so are others. Hence the 'money left on the table'.

First off, we should distinguish between black leads and predominately black cast movies and demographics.

But, since you are changing the goalposts, we'll go with that. Do you think money was left on the table when DiCaprio was cast in "Wolf of wall street"? Or, Matt Damon in the Mars movie? Would James Bond attract more fans if he were black? Would more people see these movies with Will Smith or Jamie Fox...or Megan Fox as leads?

The answer to all these is No!

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First off, we should distinguish between black leads and predominately black cast movies and demographics.

But, since you are changing the goalposts, we'll go with that. Do you think money was left on the table when DiCaprio was cast in "Wolf of wall street"? Or, Matt Damon in the Mars movie? Would James Bond attract more fans if he were black? Would more people see these movies with Will Smith or Jamie Fox...or Megan Fox as leads?

The answer to all these is No!

I'm not suggesting these movies be replaced. Honestly, I don't think you guys get it so I'm leaving this discussion.
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I'm not suggesting these movies be replaced. Honestly, I don't think you guys get it so I'm leaving this discussion.

You're suggesting that by not using black leads, they are leaving money on the table - right?

I have no problem with a black lead character, but the proof is there; DiCaprio, Damon, Clooney, Depp, Afleck etc etc. are bigger draws than Will Smith, Jamie Fox or Kevin Hart....even with the majority of movie goers being black and hispanic (which I don't know to be true yet). As I said earlier, Denzel could play any lead and the movie would be a success, but there's not too many Denzels out there.

BTW - Of all those white "actors", Depp and maybe Clooney are the only ones who are actually decent actors.

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You're suggesting that by not using black leads, they are leaving money on the table - right?

I have no problem with a black lead character, but the proof is there; DiCaprio, Damon, Clooney, Depp, Afleck etc etc. are bigger draws than Will Smith, Jamie Fox or Kevin Hart....even with the majority of movie goers being black and hispanic (which I don't know to be true yet). As I said earlier, Denzel could play any lead and the movie would be a success, but there's not too many Denzels out there.

BTW - Of all those white "actors", Depp and maybe Clooney are the only ones who are actually decent actors.

I'm pretty skeptical that the majority of movie-goers are black and Hispanic.

As a box office draw, I think Will Smith's track-record stands comparison with pretty much anybody. He's had a couple of duds recently... but so have Clooney and Johnny Depp. Anybody see "Hail Caesar!" ? "Mortdecai"? "The Lone Ranger"? Nope. Gigantic flops. Smith had a pretty much uninterrupted string of success from Independence Day and Men In Black straight up to (but not including) After Earth.

But the thing is, he's not "black actor Will Smith", he's just Will Smith. He's so familiar to everyone that the idea of race becomes irrelevant. And the bulk of his movies are completely mainstream commercial fare that are equally friendly to audiences of all races.

-k

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You're making presumptions which don't follow logical analyses. You KNOW full well that as soon as someone comes out with a particular type of movie there's a rush to imitate it. The same goes for a particular star. Other studios will try and bring out their own similar action star, romantic star, or whatever. There's not a lot of originality in Hollywood, I grant you, but if their analyses of what movies made money showed that having bald, chubby albino dwarfs in the lead role would put butts in the seat then they'd be searching out the world for chubby bald albinos.

There won't be a rush to imitate bald chubby albino dwarf movies until somebody makes the first bald chubby albindo dwarf movie. And that's not going to happen.

You are correct in pointing out that they imitate what makes money, but also that they aren't very creative. They prefer to stick with tried and true formulas.

For all the statistics and information available, predicting what audiences will like is an art, not a science.

They spent $200 million bringing John Carter to the screen, and they were dead wrong. Many similarly large mistakes get made every year. "The Lone Ranger"... a well known name, a super-bankable star in Johnny Depp... what could go wrong? Everything went wrong. It was a huge failure. Could statistics have spared the studio from making enormously expensive failures like John Carter or The Lone Ranger? Maybe... but ultimately, these projects went ahead based on the judgment of executives, not on hard science.

-k

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I'm pretty skeptical that the majority of movie-goers are black and Hispanic.

As a box office draw, I think Will Smith's track-record stands comparison with pretty much anybody. He's had a couple of duds recently... but so have Clooney and Johnny Depp. Anybody see "Hail Caesar!" ? "Mortdecai"? "The Lone Ranger"? Nope. Gigantic flops. Smith had a pretty much uninterrupted string of success from Independence Day and Men In Black straight up to (but not including) After Earth.

But the thing is, he's not "black actor Will Smith", he's just Will Smith. He's so familiar to everyone that the idea of race becomes irrelevant. And the bulk of his movies are completely mainstream commercial fare that are equally friendly to audiences of all races.

-k

I'm skeptical too, but WCR said it and i'm not interested in fact checking so...

Anyway, Sure Will Smith has box office appeal - as much as Depp or DiCaprio? I doubt it.

There are probably dozens of A-list actors vying for certain roles and when your investing several hundred million dollars in a project, you probably want the safest, most bankable lead in the movie.

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