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Taylor Swift takes a swipe at Kanye


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Kanye is a douche! Lady Gaga was pretty good last night though.

David Bowie is by far my favourite artist. I was expecting more from lady Gaga. The performance was too rushed for my liking. I wish that she had of focused on less songs and more substance.

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I've never been able to get too worked up over spats between pop culture icons who owe their success more to branding and image than talent.

This is true also. I am coming from the point of how hard it is for women to break into success without men trying to take credit for it.

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This is true also. I am coming from the point of how hard it is for women to break into success without men trying to take credit for it.

I get that and my comments were really aimed more at cultural industries in general than her in particular. She's smart and tough and I respect that. And her music is catchy and not in an annoying way - I just don't expect to hear much of it in 10 years.

But for every Taylor Swift in the world there are 50,000 others who are equally or more talented musically but lack the toughness/business savvy/looks/ruthlessness/connections/agents/luck/whatever else to make it at that level. Cultural industries are incredibly stratified versus most other types of work.

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I get that and my comments were really aimed more at cultural industries in general than her in particular. She's smart and tough and I respect that. And her music is catchy and not in an annoying way - I just don't expect to hear much of it in 10 years.

But for every Taylor Swift in the world there are 50,000 others who are equally or more talented musically but lack the toughness/business savvy/looks/ruthlessness/connections/agents/luck/whatever else to make it at that level. Cultural industries are incredibly stratified versus most other types of work.

What your post is missing is the female factor.
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David Bowie is by far my favourite artist. I was expecting more from lady Gaga. The performance was too rushed for my liking. I wish that she had of focused on less songs and more substance.

I thought it was too rushed too, but I also think Lady Gaga is a great singer and did a really good job of it.

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This is true also. I am coming from the point of how hard it is for women to break into success without men trying to take credit for it.

I don't know all the facets to this spat, but I don't think Kanye said or did anything because of her gender. Originally, he was pissed because he was going for Beyonce. If anything, he has a problem with her skin colour.

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What your post is missing is the female factor.

Just because it isn't there doesn't mean it's missing. ;)

As I was trying to point out in my original post, IMHO pop stars and other pop cultural icons including sports heroes, actors, and other celebrities are vastly overrated and over-rewarded both in terms of media attention and money. If Taylor Swift is undervalued relative to her male peers (and I don't know that she is or isn't), I can understand how she might not like that but it isn't going to rank in the top 10 problems in the world.

Furthermore, if the world were to suddenly change and award her her "due" in terms of parity of fame, fortune and respect with her male peers, I don't think that would do anything for the vast majority of women in the world. IOW, I think that Taylor Swift has a lot more in common with other elite members of the cultural community (of all genders and races) than she does with "ordinary" people who share her sex.

I know that unfair discrimination exists in the world and I am not at all insensitive to it. But I also know it exists along an unlimited number of dimensions. We focus on the most visible ones (like sex, race and age) and all that does is blind us to deeper realities.

What I'm trying to say is Taylor Swift may not be as privileged as her male peers but she still is part of a very privileged class of people. If I could change the world, I wouldn't start by fixing her situation.

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Just because it isn't there doesn't mean it's missing. ;)

As I was trying to point out in my original post, IMHO pop stars and other pop cultural icons including sports heroes, actors, and other celebrities are vastly overrated and over-rewarded both in terms of media attention and money. If Taylor Swift is undervalued relative to her male peers (and I don't know that she is or isn't), I can understand how she might not like that but it isn't going to rank in the top 10 problems in the world.

Furthermore, if the world were to suddenly change and award her her "due" in terms of parity of fame, fortune and respect with her male peers, I don't think that would do anything for the vast majority of women in the world. IOW, I think that Taylor Swift has a lot more in common with other elite members of the cultural community (of all genders and races) than she does with "ordinary" people who share her sex.

I know that unfair discrimination exists in the world and I am not at all insensitive to it. But I also know it exists along an unlimited number of dimensions. We focus on the most visible ones (like sex, race and age) and all that does is blind us to deeper realities.

What I'm trying to say is Taylor Swift may not be as privileged as her male peers but she still is part of a very privileged class of people. If I could change the world, I wouldn't start by fixing her situation.

I agree with your original post. Don't let WCR turn this into a "women are victims of the music industry" thread. Taylor Swift is like nearly every other pop star, mediocre talent with the X-factor. Producers find them and turn them into mega-stars - male or female. For every Justin Bieber, Timberlake or boy band member, there is a Miley, Demi, Selena, Spice girl and whoever.

This isn't some struggle for women in the industry. Taylor Swift is no Tina Turner or Dians Ross...she's no Madonna either, she is a product of a production company just like Bieber.

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Taylor Swift is no Tina Turner or Dians Ross...she's no Madonna either, she is a product of a production company just like Bieber.

Don't underestimate her. Like her music or not (I really don't listen to her music, so I don't really have an opinion...) she's an extremely smart businesswoman.

She might be a product of a production company, but she owns that production company. The whole thing, everything, since very early in her career. She's the CEO of a very successful corporation whose main product happens to be herself. She's somewhat Madonna-like in that respect.

-k

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To be fair, Taylor Swift may be a product but she is one of the select few who write a lot of her own music and lyrics. The same can't be said for vacuous acts like Meaghan Trainor who won best new artist.

You mean it isn't true that Meaghan Trainor was originally a songwriter and producer who decided to record some of the songs she wrote that other artists had passed on? Who broke this story?
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You mean it isn't true that Meaghan Trainor was originally a songwriter and producer who decided to record some of the songs she wrote that other artists had passed on? Who broke this story?

Meaghan Trainor's break out hit "All About That Bass" was literally create by her throwing random phrases together, in her own words. It's absolutely meaningless drivel that's he difference. It's like an infant finger painting and an art curator trying to sell it as a masterpiece.
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Don't underestimate her. Like her music or not (I really don't listen to her music, so I don't really have an opinion...) she's an extremely smart businesswoman.

She might be a product of a production company, but she owns that production company. The whole thing, everything, since very early in her career. She's the CEO of a very successful corporation whose main product happens to be herself. She's somewhat Madonna-like in that respect.

-k

I'm speaking to the idea that she's somehow persecuted by the establishment for being female. Not that she hasn't made good decisions.

When she started her speech with the whole "as the first woman to win this award twice" and then raised the suggestion that she had some major struggle to overcome...well, it seemed somewhat delusional! Let's face it, she has a team of people doing everything possible to get her to the top, she's super hot and appeals to many people - she sells, she is the chosen one.

Shania Twain was nothing until Mutt Lange got ahold of her and was nothing when he left, but in between she was the chosen one in the 90's. The industry needs to elevate these people to keep the money rolling in, it's a factory and Swift along with Bieber and the rest are the product of today, not the music.

It's all artificial.

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I've never been able to get too worked up over spats between pop culture icons who owe their success more to branding and image than talent.

What is the likelihood that their publicists get together in advance and arrange all this?

I think very very high.

It is similar to professional wrestling, sorry I meant rasslin. Everybody has an assigned role.

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So, we all know what Kanye has said about Taylor, and he mentions her by name in a song, something about making her a star, which is ironic because he's actually using her name and his douchbaggery from the VMA award show to sell his records, which makes him the parasite - and clearly a douche.

Now, not to outdone, has't Taylor Swift been synonymous for writing songs trashing other celebrity ex boyfriends? Then she gets on stage and does what? She pulls a Kanye, doesn't mention his name, but it seemed pretty obvious. She looked like a bits and now enters the douche category.

I know women around the world are saying "you go girl", but really, I think she proved that her and Kanye are cut from the same cloth.

P.S - The 9 collaborators that had to stand there and hear Taylor Swift thank them, then say it was all about her accomplishments.

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I'm speaking to the idea that she's somehow persecuted by the establishment for being female.

Persecuted is not language anyone has used. She has a barrier as a female artist to be sure. After Carole King won in 1972, a woman didn't win the award again until Bonnie Raitt 18 years later. Since 1990, however, Whitney Houston, Norah Jones, Lauryn Hill, and the Dixie Chicks had all won the award. It's pretty tough to say there's been any kind of gendered bias since the early 90s.
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In 27 years, back to and including 1990, women have won the award 11 times and Allison Krauss shared it with Robert Plant for 12. One of those years was a "various artists" album, making the winner not an individual at all. Dropping that year, this leaves women winning the award 12/26 times since 1990. That doesn't speak to any sort of gender disparity if you ask me. Before that it was 2 times in 29 years. That's a problem for sure.

Edited by cybercoma
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Meaghan Trainor's break out hit "All About That Bass" was literally create by her throwing random phrases together, in her own words. It's absolutely meaningless drivel that's he difference. It's like an infant finger painting and an art curator trying to sell it as a masterpiece.

Art is subjective and earworms are powerful.
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