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Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

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Reality time:

https://fee.org/articles/the-f-35-project-has-been-a-disastrous-waste-of-money/

https://saveourskiesvt.org/category/news/technological-disaster/

https://news.yahoo.com/f-35-problem-wont-easy-195300503.html

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-the-1-45-trillion-f-35-still-cant-get-off-the-ground/

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) has in fact been in development for 18 years and is 8 years behind schedule.  Its acquisition costs  have exceeded $428 billion,  which is double the initial estimate of $233 billion.

Right now the lifetime operation and maintenance costs of the F35 is $1.2 trillion.

Its design problems are not going away:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7158309/F-35s-problems-continue-documents-reveal.html

Israel has allegedly redesigned the helmet which is supposed to replace naked eye vision and extended its flight range for their version.

For Israel requiring a multi-purpose stealth fighter might make sense, for Canada no.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Rue said:

For Israel requiring a multi-purpose stealth fighter might make sense, for Canada no.

 

Has nothing to do with Canada for program costs or development...Canada is the lowest Tier 3 partner...mostly for politics and jobs.

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5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Has nothing to do with Canada for program costs or development...Canada is the lowest Tier 3 partner...mostly for politics and jobs.

 

And surprisingly.......still in the program ;)

 

As I've been saying for years, the RCAF will get the F-35A, regardless of what "bloggers" and "virtue signalling Liberal party leaders" suggest...... 

 

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On 2/25/2016 at 9:51 PM, Derek 2.0 said:

With the proposed Hornet replacements, including the F-35? Next to nothing, but its mooted, because he holds a political position and receives advice from those within his department that do........the question is on the ability to act on said advice...to date, the results speak for themselves, in that Canada hasn't left the F-35 program, nor has the MND stated the F-35 won't be the replacement for our Hornets.

For longevity purposes..........

 

Note that Eurofighter and Rafale left the program, for the very reasons I said they would for years....lack of proper integration into NORAD....the very same reason Canada will purchase the F-35.

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Welcome back Derek, I hope you plan to stay a while.

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A new part of the US Navy's F-35 system revealed...

Boeing's MQ-25 refueling drone...a first, I believe.

The Navy's goal for the aircraft is to be able to deliver 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) of fuel total to 4 to 6 airplanes at a range of 500 nmi (580 mi; 930 km).

 

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On 9/20/2019 at 12:50 AM, Derek 2.0 said:

 

And surprisingly.......still in the program ;)

 

As I've been saying for years, the RCAF will get the F-35A, regardless of what "bloggers" and "virtue signalling Liberal party leaders" suggest...... 

 

I am not a blogger or a Liberal Thank you. I am a realist and not a groupie of anything American must be good. Canada has never needed a stealth fighter and to say it needs one is a collosal crock of sheeyat. The last think we need is a stealth fighter. We want a jet that DOES show up on the radar. We want an interceptor not a stealth fighter. We want our jets intercepting air craft invading our air space as quickly as possible in response time. That requires no stealth what so ever. As well the F35 was designed to be a fighter high altitude like an F15 or 16, but also do away with the need of the Warthog, i.e., a low to ground fighter that takes out tanks. It is also designed supposedly for low flight missions. For phack's sake most of Canada is timber that needs to be patrolled and one does not need low altitude fighter jets when the rest of it is cities. We have no open deserts where the F35 is envisioned to come in low, evade radar and take out tanks and personnel out in the open in deserts with no cover.

The equivalent to desert we have is ice cover and in that respect there would be no large ground forces on ice a Griphen could not handle and more to the point a Griphen can  land on very short run way on ice, an F35 can not. A Griphen  up North isolated and in need of repair requires 5 people an F35 at least 30. The maintenance time on an F35 is far more time consuming and expensive. The Griphen can use all old weapons from our F18 fleet the F35 can not.

We could buy far more fighters if we chose the Swedish one and have money left over for badly needed naval vessels. The F35 expense will prevent any spending on the Navy or Army choking up all funds.

The F35 Canada gets is NOT the F35 the US, Britain or Israel will use. Other than the metal shell it will not be the same. Israel's upgrades are secret. The RAF, USAF and IAF do their own particular alterations of upgrades to the F35 that make it an entirely different fighter than the one we get in Canada. F35 as a name means sweet phack all. Its the upgrades not the shell of the craft which the F35 refers to which makes it a craft. 

Not all Jeeps are the same for phack's sake. The groupies on this page hear the name F35 and like sheep salivate on cue to the brand name giving no thought to what is under the engine hood. Oh well then its a BMW it must be good. Thanks I pass. I think the Subaru not BMW, Audi or Mercedes is the best motor vehicle.

The only reason we are buying the jet is because its manufacturer has a lobby group that controls our government with promises of more spin off benefits which in the short run get politicians in such ridings where the spin offs occur elected but costs more money in the long run which could have been used for the Navy.

In fact its only bloggers and virtue arm chair pilot experts who play with computer games who support the F35. No pilot in their right mind wants to fly a plane that prevents the pilot from having a full view up and to the side and to the back of the plane and relies on the pilot to fly blind and use a helmet for sight. That reliance on the helmet for vision is oooh so swell for virtue arm chair gamers but a real pilot will always rely on his eyes and intuition not a virtual reality projection in the heat of the moment.

My comments come from listening to pilots who can not express their true opinions because their superiors are controlled by a military industrial network full of corruption and kick backs.

There is zero reason a Griphen could not be used in Canada. Zero.

 

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:06 AM, Derek 2.0 said:

For longevity purposes..........

 

Note that Eurofighter and Rafale left the program, for the very reasons I said they would for years....lack of proper integration into NORAD....the very same reason Canada will purchase the F-35.

Lack of integration into NORAD. Right. It means they do not have a lobby network in Canada that can get to the MP's and influence them. Give it a rest with the bull. NO ONE believes for a second either craft you mentioned could not be used with NORAD. What a crock.  The only reason they could not be intergrated is because the Americans who want the F35 sold dominate NORAD, period, end of story. There is no such thing as a non integradeable aircraft. Please Derek explain how either fighter could not have been modified for NORAD duties. 

These jets were rejected because of less spin off benefits in Canadian election ridings than the F35 which has the greatest spin off effect for jobs and THAT is the only reason the F35 will be picked. The other reason these two craft were rejected was their price was far too high. 

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2 minutes ago, Rue said:

 

There is zero reason a Griphen could not be used in Canada. Zero.

 

There is zero reason for Canada to have combat aircraft at all, there's zero reason for Canada to bother with having a military at all.

The military now cannot defend even a tiny fraction of the territory nor airspace, so getting rid of the CF altogether would make no difference.

Canada could spend the money on other things, like policing speech and handouts for left wing extremist causes.

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Earth to Dougie calling. If Canada does not demonstrate sovereignty over its air spaces or on its waters REGULARLY under international law, it can be deemed to have ceded its territorial sovereignty. With Russia, the US and many other nations trying to gain access to our Arctic waters the imperative to demonstrate our sovereignty is crucial. It was bad enough we allowed Japan, China, Russia, Span and Portugal to permanently destroy the Grand Banks. Drug and people smuggling is at an all time high. Thanks but relying on Uncle Sam to protect our sovereign rights is stupid.

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Just now, Rue said:

 Thanks but relying on Uncle Sam to protect our sovereign rights is stupid.

What, are you going to try to pretend that that is not the case now?  

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6 minutes ago, Rue said:

 With Russia, the US and many other nations trying to gain access to our Arctic waters the imperative to demonstrate our sovereignty is crucial.

The Russians and Americans are already sailing Canadian waters with impunity, the Russians by submarine, but the Americans sail through the Northwest Passage by claim that beyond the 12 mile limit it is international waters, what is Canada gonna do, shoot a torpedo at them from the Victoria class submarines? 

No, Canada does nothing, because obviously Canada is not enforce anything against Big Daddy Trump President of Canada, whom Canada comes cap in hand to all the time.

Canada is not going to fight anybody without the Americans, there is no point in Canada wasting money on a token force to fly the flag for Washington.

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As an American, I don't even want Canada on the team, Free Rider Canada is a burden not a boon.

Gutless effeminate country which couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag even if it wasn't terrified by the sight of blood and loud bangs of automatic rifles.

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1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

As an American, I don't even want Canada on the team, Free Rider Canada is a burden not a boon.

Gutless effeminate country which couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag even if it wasn't terrified by the sight of blood and loud bangs of automatic rifles.

Americans : Cuba is a terrible dictatorship that was nearly responsible for a nuclear war

Canadians : Cuba is a warm place with no Americans! 

lol ?

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8 minutes ago, Teena said:

Americans : Cuba is a terrible dictatorship that was nearly responsible for a nuclear war

Canadians : Cuba is a warm place with no Americans! 

lol ?

Well, actually, in October of 1962 Diefenbaker ordered the Canadian military to stand down, because he said there was no point in fighting a nuclear war.

The military literally mutinied against the Canadian Government, ignored them, and deployed under orders from Washington.

This sent a shock wave through the Canadian political class, both the Tories and the Liberals.

This is why Pierre Trudeau started the project to dismantle the Canadian military, Ottawa does not trust it

And rightly so, because the military does look to Washington as its real master.

Admiral Norman being taken as a political prisoner is par for the course, any sign that the senior brass might be disobedient incites panic in Ottawa.

Edited by Dougie93
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This is why cronyism is rampant in the CF,   you can't get promoted without demonstrating that you are an absolute crony who will never defy them in the slightest.

They don't promote based on operational excellence, same as with the RCMP, they only promote sycophants.

And no, this is not what civilian oversight of the military is supposed to be, anymore than this is what civilian oversight of the police is supposed to be

Oversight doesn't mean the politicians should be running operations for the military nor police, it's supposedly at arms length in a free country.

Otherwise you end up where Canada is now, a Banana Republic where the military and police are wholly politicized arms.

Edited by Dougie93

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