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Big Guy

Treat Addiction as a Disease

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Do you have a cite for this?

I said it was my personal experience watching addicts try to get sober and a fairly good understanding of why be get addicted and what it takes to sober up. I believe that if someone choose to collect the data that is what they would find. I also believe my experience trumps the feel-good nonsense that you peddle for no reason other than you naively think enabling an addict helps.

BTW: Your source is more nuanced that you on the point. They seem to claim that you don't want to tell the addict that they are a moral failure because that is counter productive. I agree with that point.

Edited by TimG

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I said it was my personal experience watching addicts try to get sober and a fairly good understanding of why be get addicted and what it takes to sober up. I believe that if someone choose to collect the data that is what they would find. I also believe my experience trumps the feel-good nonsense that you peddle for no reason other than you naively think enabling an addict helps.

BTW: Your source is more nuanced that you on the point. They seem to claim that you don't want to tell the addict that they are a moral failure because that is counter productive. I agree with that point.

Right. It's your personal experience. Let's put that above research. I get it now.

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kilobycenter.com

An expensive facility that seeks to differentiate itself from others in order to justify its fees. It is not bad since it is good that people try different approaches but its opinion is hardly proven fact. I doubt that their success rate is better than others than offer similar follow up programs.

Here is one on Vancouver Island that agrees with my view: http://www.edgewood.ca/why-choose-edgewood

Edited by TimG

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...BTW: Your source is more nuanced that you on the point. They seem to claim that you don't want to tell the addict that they are a moral failure because that is counter productive. I agree with that point.

It is no surprise that the Palm Desert Recovery - Kiloby Center at Rancho Mirage, California wants to destigmatize the labeling of addicts, as this directly contributes to their rehab for-profit business model.

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Right. It's your personal experience. Let's put that above research. I get it now.

You don't have any research supporting your view. You have the opinion of a couple academics. Well there are lots of academics who disagree.

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You don't have any research supporting your view. You have the opinion of a couple academics. Well there are lots of academics who disagree.

We're discussing treatment instead of criminalization of drug addiction.

We are not deciding what the best treatment is. We are not experts.

Labels don't matter either.

But we seem to agree 😲

on treatment v jail.

.

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Illegal drug use is increasing in our society and creating increasing major domestic and financial tragedies.

We can deal with the escalating problem in the manner we have been or we can look at alternatives.

If we continue to do what we are doing we will get the same results as we are getting.

I do not find that acceptable. I think there are other solutions. I have suggested one.

If you feel it will not make things better then what do you suggest?

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Ya I'm not hung up on the 'disease' concept.

Call it a bad habit, over consumption, whatever.

Addiction is drug/alcohol use that interferes with functioning - work, community, family.

.

There are plenty of more pressing things interfering with these and I'm pretty sure addiction is far more an effect than a cause in this regard.

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You omitted the stuff that does not support your thesis:

Recovery from addiction requires a lifelong change in attitudes and lifestyle. There are no drugs that fix this problem. AA does not work for people who do not choose to make the lifestyle changes. Saying that AA is ineffective because many people don't want to accept the treatment is like saying cholesterol meds don't work because people don't want to take them.

A big part of making the lifestyle change requires that one's admit that one's current way of doing things is a failure. This admission starts by accepting the hard and unsympathetic label of 'addict'. If someone does not want to accept this label then they are in denial and will relapse. Trying to avoid the label may make sense in the initial stages of treatment but ultimately an addict must accept the label to get long term recovery.

Oh bullshit. My wife and I quit cocaine and tobacco cold turkey at the same time and never looked back because it was time to grow up and have kids.

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Oh bullshit. My wife and I quit cocaine and tobacco cold turkey at the same time and never looked back because it was time to grow up and have kids.

So what's the problem, why all this need for harm reduction, free drugs, free housing etc., these people can just quit cold turkey and carry on. Simple, problem fixed.

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Just because some can doesn't mean all can. TimG is being way too generalizing.

We had a goal and it gave us the incentive we needed. I'm not saying I don't know people who failed and badly but all around most did as we did and grew up no more worse for wear.

It's just not as bleak or black and white as you're making things out to be.

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Just because some can doesn't mean all can. TimG is being way too generalizing.

You and your wife are obviously not addicts so the description does not apply. I never defined addict to be 'anyone who uses a drug'. An addict is someone who can't stop using a drug despite repeated attempts to do so.

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I never defined addict to be 'anyone who uses a drug'.

A lot of your homies and governments do seem to do that but thanks for setting me straight. My bad.

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You and your wife are obviously not addicts so the description does not apply. I never defined addict to be 'anyone who uses a drug'. An addict is someone who can't stop using a drug despite repeated attempts to do so.

And it interferes with functioning.

Legalize, regulate, and treat addiction.

This criminalizing is expensive nonsense.

.

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I find it astonishing that America has no sanctioned safe injection site anywhere in the country. Hopefully this will change soon with a proposal for one in Ithaca, NY. The mayor wants to open one and he wants it modeled after Vancouver's site.

Svante Myrick is the Mayor of Ithaca and he has a plan to combat addiction and overdoses within the community.

While working on “The Ithaca Plan”, Mayor Myrick and other Ithaca officials looked to Vancouver as the model of a city that has implemented a safe injection site as a means to combat the spread of disease and death associated with intravenous drug use.

Mayor Svante Myrick joined Simi Sara to talk about why he is proposing to open a safe injection site in Ithaca, the controversy surrounding his proposal, and why he believes other cities in the United States should follow Vancouver’s lead and open safe injection sites as a method of harm reduction.

An emergency room physician in Maryland would also like a safe injection site opened in that state and they seem to be making progress as well:

Maryland state Del. Dan Morhaim, an emerghttp://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25674-treat-addiction-as-a-disease/page-11encyroom physician, wants to create safe injection sites in his state, saying supervised injection would help break the cycle of drug use by exposing addicts to counseling and making them less prone to drawing others into the habit of drug use.

http://www.cknw.com/2016/04/06/mayor-of-ithica-ny-wants-injection-sites-modeled-after-vancouvers-insite/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/03/25/ithaca-mayor-wants-haven-heroin-addicts/82213500/

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Not so astonishing in the U.S., as it is a federal crime to “knowingly open, lease, rent, use, or maintain any place… for the purpose of manufacturing, distributing, or using any controlled substance.” Punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

So there's the answer....have safe injection sites for addicts to shoot up in prisons, since they are already there.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Not so astonishing in the U.S., as it is a federal crime to “knowingly open, lease, rent, use, or maintain any place… for the purpose of manufacturing, distributing, or using any controlled substance.” Punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

So there's the answer....have safe injection sites for addicts to shoot up in prisons, since they are already there.

There are 'unsanctioned' sites already in th U.S., so why hasn't anyone involved in these sites gone to prison? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/03/25/ithaca-mayor-wants-haven-heroin-addicts/82213500/

But no safe havens for injecting illegal drugs exist in the United States, which is experiencing an epidemic of opioid addiction and a rising tide of overdose deaths. Some lawmakers in California and Maryland want to change that and make legal what addiction specialists say is already going on at many clinics or needle-exchange programs across the country.

Edited by WestCoastRunner

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There are 'unsanctioned' sites already in th U.S., so why hasn't anyone involved in these sites gone to prison?

Lots of users do go to prison, mostly for trafficking and possession. I have always found the notion of "safe" sites for injecting lethal, illegal drugs to be an interesting idea.

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... I also believe my experience trumps the feel-good nonsense that you peddle for no reason other than you naively think enabling an addict helps.

...

There are examples of success in treating addiction as a disease.

Due to the severe drug problem in Switzerland in the early 1990s, (rising number of injection drug users, visibility of open drug scenes, AIDS epidemic, rising number of drug related deaths, poor physical health, high criminality) the Swiss made a fundamental shift in approaching the problems caused by heroin addiction. The Swiss offer treatment-on-demand. Of an estimated 22-24,000 addicts (dropping 4% per year) 16,500 are in treatment and 92% are given daily doses of primarily methadone at conventional clinics. The Swiss treat about 1300 addicts with maintenance doses of heroin via 23 special clinics operating in cities and two prisons. The Swiss approach has resulted in lower rates of crime, death, disease, a slight drop in expected new users as well as an improvement in mental and physical health, employment and housing. The program has been adopted by three countries: Germany, Belgium and Denmark. Four countries are running trials = Holland, England, Spain and Canada.

http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/resources/swiss-heroin-assisted-treatment-1994-2009-summary/

I think there is nothing naive about supporting a program that has proven to improve the problem.

I also believe that after a successful experiment, Britain will soon be starting a similar program.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1926160,00.html

Edited by Big Guy

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I find it astonishing that America has no sanctioned safe injection site anywhere in the country. Hopefully this will change soon with a proposal for one in Ithaca, NY.

It is not astonishing because it is a form of enabling drug use and can potentially discourage addicts from cleaning up. So reasonable people can think it is a very bad idea. That said, prolonging addiction is not a for gone conclusion and it really depends on how the clinic is run. I am not convinced the Vancouver clinic is helping more than it is hurting but if it cuts down on the spread of diseases like HEPC or HIV it may be worth it.

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There are examples of success in treating addiction as a disease.

It is already treated as a disease so you are making no sense. The question at hand are which treatments make the most sense and in the Swiss case they have not abandoned the traditional treatment approach and only supply heroin to patients who failed regular treatments twice (only a minority end up on heroin).

The success in reducing crime rates come from providing instant access to detox and treatment that must include the cognitive therapy (via professional or in a NA/AA group setting). Without the latter the treatment would fail because the addicts would eventually seek out the highs which the treatment program denies them.

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I am not convinced the Vancouver clinic is helping more than it is hurting but if it cuts down on the spread of diseases like HEPC or HIV it may be worth it.

How much convincing do you need or do you just like to keep espousing your personal opinions instead of review numerous studies that have determined these sites are helping. I can provide plenty of links that you can review if you want, however, I know your mind is made up so I won't bother.

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I was in East Van last summer and was quite surprised at just how big the shitty area has gotten over the last few years. I don't know (and don't care) about whether the safe injection sites are working, but the junkies (or victims of disease) seem to be everywhere.

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I was in East Van last summer and was quite surprised at just how big the shitty area has gotten over the last few years. I don't know (and don't care) about whether the safe injection sites are working, but the junkies (or victims of disease) seem to be everywhere.

So how's that 'trickle-down' economics working?

And punishing and incarcerating drug addicts to keep them off the streets ... how's that working?

Addicts can't even get into a shelter let alone on a housing list until they stop using, rehab programs are few and far between and waits for social housing are very long.

Despite the diversity across studies, there is consistent support for the

positive impact of housing on health and social outcomes for people with substance use and mental disorders.

... the available research suggests that housing should be made as

accessible as possible, with the flexibility to add additional supports in response to the

expressed needs and wishes of each individual.

substance-abuse-and-housing.pdf

Housing first.

Permanent housing, complemented by the provision of services, helps to assist clients to sustain their housing and work towards recovery and reintegration into the community.

.

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review numerous studies that have determined these sites are helping.

Studies in politically sensitive fields are often produced by activists with an agenda. This makes it next to impossible to get reliable and impartial assessments done.

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