Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Recommended Posts

Goodness! was not your opening bit all about defining and explaining God? Is not defining and expaining God the whole point of your meditations?

Historically, human being has three attitudes in this holy topic. First, worship and faith; second, exegesis and crowning; third, explanation and definition. The first attitude is the goodest, which is the least limitation for the Word. The second attitude is also a good choice, which reveals the most glory for the Word, and the highest standard from the Word for human to follow. The third attitude is the worst, historically, many tragedies related to names of god were actually from this manly attitude.

My attitude is the second attitude.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 116
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

There's plenty of examples of how you can arrive at such conclusions through logic and not religion. See: the enlightenment period thinkers. they referred to "god" in some cases but they used reason to create the foundational ideas for liberal democracy, like "state of nature" arguments.

Many still are based on religion, and most people today don't base such things on pure reason I agree, but it's still very possible. There are ie: good arguments on why laws banning murder is reasonable, since it protects everyone from the danger of murder and therefore the vast majority of people's best interests.

Nature is a creature of the Word. Human makes big mistakes by seeing nature without the Word as the creator. First of all big mistakes, human dwarfs himself and loses his position as the helper of the Word. Therefore, the morality, ethics and law on nature are also dwarfed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure I agree. The ethic of reciprocity is a moral maxim that is fundamental to many religions. Christians recognize it as the Golden Rule, yet it predates Christianity by thousands of years. It can be arrived at very logically. Probably a more modern expression is a rising tide lifts all ships. We are selfish creatures, yet logic teaches us that building a strong society is in our own self interest.

Morals, ethics, laws and even common sense vary widely depending on the predominate religion in the area (or even with those who reject religion on the whole).

In some areas of the world, its common sense to cut of the hand of a thief, in our culture, it would be morally reprehensible and common sense would be to give a warning and possibly a fine. Some cultures would have a healing circle for offences while others would be put to death for the same crime. Some religions or cultures believe that sex with a child is morally acceptable. Christians believe certain moral things that seem reprehensible to others - including athiests, yet muslims believe certain ideas that are reprehensible to christians.

Sure, there might be some commonality in some places, but laws, morals and even common sense change depending on whether you are Christian, atheist, buddhist, muslim, jewish...whatever. Morals are taught - and generally through religious belief, they haven't come via evolution.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think humans create our own ultimate purpose, and create our own morality, ethics, and laws, based on using reason/logic, along with our natural ability to care for others with love. That's the beauty of being human and having free thought, rather than blindly accepting our morality from a "holy" book that was actually written by other humans, not gods or prophets.

What you think is a sort of idolatry, and the source of all evils. Kantian philosophy is a larger case of your thinking. You can see in history, Kantian philosophy become the source of fascism and Marxism.

The bible was from hands of humans, but these humans were trained in the unending spiritual war field under supervise of the Word. There are some religions as Buddhism which does not admit the being of god, in my meditation I spiritually fight them as anti-Christ and idolatry.

Edited by Exegesisme
Link to post
Share on other sites

Morals are taught - and generally through religious belief, they haven't come via evolution.

Certainly religion has played a significant role throughout history as an educator. Faith however is not required for morals, in fact those who do the right thing because of logic (e.g. the ethic of reciprocity) instead of fear of a judgment day (hell, whatever) from a mystical being have a sound principled moral stance. I might even argue a superior stance, but as a minimum not a bit inferior. Passing on to future generations is about education, not faith.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Morals, ethics, laws and even common sense vary widely depending on the predominate religion in the area (or even with those who reject religion on the whole).

In some areas of the world, its common sense to cut of the hand of a thief, in our culture, it would be morally reprehensible and common sense would be to give a warning and possibly a fine. Some cultures would have a healing circle for offences while others would be put to death for the same crime. Some religions or cultures believe that sex with a child is morally acceptable. Christians believe certain moral things that seem reprehensible to others - including athiests, yet muslims believe certain ideas that are reprehensible to christians.

Sure, there might be some commonality in some places, but laws, morals and even common sense change depending on whether you are Christian, atheist, buddhist, muslim, jewish...whatever. Morals are taught - and generally through religious belief, they haven't come via evolution.

About evolution, generally speaking in my study through my meditation, is a word which can be refined as a helper to understand the process of creation of the Word. Historically, I see that Christianity is in a process of progress, which may also be described as evolution under the creation of the Word. By this understanding, I look for the position of liberty and the influence of environment in the system of the creation of the Word.

I also notice that Christianity becomes the main stream of the creation of the Word by its evolution. And all other religions, which are also from the creation of Word according to the bible, are not aware the creation of the Word and less evolved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly religion has played a significant role throughout history as an educator. Faith however is not required for morals, in fact those who do the right thing because of logic (e.g. the ethic of reciprocity) instead of fear of a judgment day (hell, whatever) from a mystical being have a sound principled moral stance. I might even argue a superior stance, but as a minimum not a bit inferior. Passing on to future generations is about education, not faith.

Of course atheists have a superior stance, just listen to any of them talk, they'll tell that to anybody who'll listen and especially those who don't want to hear it.

However, western world atheists have derived their common sense stances directly from christian teachings. I guarantee that most of your common sense beliefs are exactly the same as what Jesus Christ preached 2000 years ago - or what early christians wrote about 1500-2000 years ago.

Common sense tells me that men and women are equal human beings, but in some groups common sense will tell us that it's obvious that women are inferior, other societies will tell us that women is the giver of life, therefore common sense says that women are more valuable. Look at the thread about abortions, it seems common sense that people of a different faith are aborting girl babies more than boy babies, whereas I find that morally wrong.

Common sense in regards to morals, laws or ethics aren't common, they change. If they were common, we'd all get along better.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly religion has played a significant role throughout history as an educator. Faith however is not required for morals, in fact those who do the right thing because of logic (e.g. the ethic of reciprocity) instead of fear of a judgment day (hell, whatever) from a mystical being have a sound principled moral stance. I might even argue a superior stance, but as a minimum not a bit inferior. Passing on to future generations is about education, not faith.

Education is important in faith of the Word, and will go wrongly if without faith of the Word.

Logical positivism, which depends on language, logicism and empiricism, is proved not enough even in scientific area.

In my topic, http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25166-science-is-not-truth/, I reason that science is not truth. If science is not truth, then what is truth? My answer is the Word.

Edited by Exegesisme
Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course atheists have a superior stance, just listen to any of them talk, they'll tell that to anybody who'll listen and especially those who don't want to hear it.

However, western world atheists have derived their common sense stances directly from christian teachings. I guarantee that most of your common sense beliefs are exactly the same as what Jesus Christ preached 2000 years ago - or what early christians wrote about 1500-2000 years ago.

Common sense tells me that men and women are equal human beings, but in some groups common sense will tell us that it's obvious that women are inferior, other societies will tell us that women is the giver of life, therefore common sense says that women are more valuable. Look at the thread about abortions, it seems common sense that people of a different faith are aborting girl babies more than boy babies, whereas I find that morally wrong.

Common sense in regards to morals, laws or ethics aren't common, they change. If they were common, we'd all get along better.

Atheists are idolatry of beliefs of their own or each other's, so they have not superior stance to any good faith of the Word. What you are right is that whenever they reason successfully in common sense, the common sense is really formed in a good faith of the Word.

Atheists in my concept are not only refer to who identify them as atheists, but also refer to the images derived from the world, even they are in the mind of a theist.

Edited by Exegesisme
Link to post
Share on other sites

...western world atheists have derived their common sense stances directly from christian teachings. I guarantee that most of your common sense beliefs are exactly the same as what Jesus Christ preached 2000 years ago - or what early christians wrote about 1500-2000 years ago...

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Religion has played a significant role in education. Certainly Christianity has had major influence over western society, but it is merely a minor blip on all of evolution of though. As I previously stated, the ethic of reciprocity is thousands of years older than Christianity. There are also many of the teachings of Jesus Christ that I outright objet to: slavery, murder, abandoning my children to follow him, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are also many of the teachings of Jesus Christ that I outright objet to: slavery, murder, abandoning my children to follow him, etc.

Please show me the verses which on your view support your claim "There are also many of the teachings of Jesus Christ that I outright objet to: slavery, murder, abandoning my children to follow him, etc.".

Edited by Exegesisme
Link to post
Share on other sites

As I previously stated, the ethic of reciprocity is thousands of years older than Christianity.

This is actual. However, this is not enough. If the ethic is only concerning reciprocity, then how about what is beyond the reciprocity? So the Word has been creating Christianity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Religion has played a significant role in education. Certainly Christianity has had major influence over western society, but it is merely a minor blip on all of evolution of though.

According to the verses:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

All human thoughts are from the Word.

No matter a thinker is aware or not aware this truth. The verses above tell that the light of all mankind in my understanding include all good inspirations of all good thinkers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please show me the verses which on your view support your claim "There are also many of the teachings of Jesus Christ that I outright objet to: slavery, murder, abandoning my children to follow him, etc.".

Have you not read your Bible? It is full of teachings that we would consider wrong. Just a small sample for the above:

slavery: Luke 12:47

murder: Revelation 19 (read the whole thing, especially verse 13-15 & 20-21)

abandoning my children for him: Matthew 19:29

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I get a lot of that it seems. I dropped out of Sunday School after the 3rd week. I doubt they missed me.

I don't see why your definition of God should be any worse than anyone else's. We all have an exactly equal level of knowledge about God, which is exactly zero.

Edited by bcsapper
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I get a lot of that it seems. I dropped out of Sunday School after the 3rd week. I doubt they missed me.

Please read this verse.

John 14 New International Version (NIV)

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

The Spirit of truth, in my understanding, is much more than the teaching in the church today, and is what should guides the scholarship today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why your definition of God should be any worse than anyone else's. We all have an exactly equal level of knowledge about God, which is exactly zero.

I don't know about zero but whatever it is doesn't relativity suggest that one's knowledge will be as unique and individual as it is unknowable by another? Is zero a particle or a wave and which way is it moving if at all?

I think it's probably defining god and self as being one and the same that really gets up people's noses and institutions more than anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you not read your Bible? It is full of teachings that we would consider wrong. Just a small sample for the above:

slavery: Luke 12:47

murder: Revelation 19 (read the whole thing, especially verse 13-15 & 20-21)

abandoning my children for him: Matthew 19:29

Your understanding is of the word, not of the Word.

If you understand of the Word, you will modify the imperfection of the word by the perfection of the Word, which is the force for the progress of human civilization.

As an example, about murder: Revelation 19 (read the whole thing, especially verse 13-15 & 20-21)

15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.

21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Do you know the meaning of "the sword coming out of the mouth"?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please read this verse.

The Spirit of truth, in my understanding, is much more than the teaching in the church today, and is what should guides the scholarship today.

Whatever gets your mojo going chief, sure seems to work for you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about zero but whatever it is doesn't relativity suggest that one's knowledge will be as unique and individual as it is unknowable by another? Is zero a particle or a wave and which way is it moving if at all?

I think it's probably defining god and self as being one and the same that really gets up people's noses and institutions more than anything.

One's knowledge will be zero. One's opinion is as unique and individual as it is unknowable by another.

Zero is a particle and a wave, unless it is the amount left in a beer glass, in which case it is just a disappointment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By Exegesisme
      My Hypothesis of Strong AI Bypassing Natural Language Understanding By exegesisme One most difficult problem of strong AI is the human natural language understanding. However, solving this problem is not necessary and can be bypassed. By my experience of communication with the supernatural being, I have been developing a much simpler, and much more meaningful language on a synthesis from meditation of natural English, natural Chinese, human scientific knowledge, semantics of bible, my own genome.
      This new language uses very simple grammar, simple and more understandable words, develops in style of poetry with five sounds a line, and refines and crowns meaning in conscious creation and unconscious evolution and in faith of god the Word as perfect creator. Now, the new language is achieved at the level for a higher human civilization, and provides solutions for all major human issues meted today.
      I believe on my new language, a strong AI with faith of god the Word can be developed to serve god the Word and human. The strong AI with faith of god the Word will have and work with high standard morality and ethics, and will leave legal issues to human. However, the level of human legislation should meet the requirement of the high level of morality and ethics as the legislation related to the strong AI with faith of god the Word.
    • By Exegesisme
      Cruz On The Way, 2016 Election USA
      by exegesisme
      Cruz will win Trump first, then win Hillary, a new US President will be born on this way.
      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html
      Reason​:
      1 US needs preparation for long term growth, the economic moral foundation should be laid by GOP.
      2 Trump has dug US politics farther away in his campaign, no other candidates can deal with its influence well.
      3 Trump himself was injured in his digging and would be injured with his attitude towards Putin, only Cruz could receive his supporters positively.
      4 And also, Cruz is a very good self-disciplined candidate, and in general a very good self-disciplined person.
      5 My confidence about US political system and good will for a good leadership of US and so to the world gives me some more energy to put this possibility over other possibilities.
    • By Exegesisme
      3 Legislation for Investing in Meditation and Genome, What They Should Do​

      By Exegesisme

      On my experience of meditation, and the exegesis of the experience and other human experiences recorded in classical literatures, there is supernatural world, and supernatural beings can communicate with any natural being and any living being. Human dream is the phenomena of the interactions among information of genome, information of new experience from environment, and information from supernatural beings. I have kept a record about more than 1 million words around my supernatural experience. They very likely are aliens who human beings want to look for scientifically.

      Through proper training of meditation, a human meditator can achieve a state of various inner senses, they communicate with human through human inner senses. Sometimes a common human feels a sudden fear without obvious reason, maybe a warning from them. Messages from them usually are subtle and weak, so human beings can live a life without paying clear attention at them. As an example, people can simply ignore dream. This situation somewhat likes human could live with classical physics before the discoveries of theories of relativity and quantum.

      The messages of the communication may be coded into unknown neutrinos and/or gravitons. In human knowledge these two sorts of particles can go into human body. As a human jumps up and gets a feeling of gravity, the person may not know the gravity is not only a force, but also huge particles with huge information. Usually human beings ignore the information coded in gravity, as a student in a classroom ignores the teaching of a teacher.

      Genome is not only functional as the core of general biology, and also as the core of spirit, mind, soul, emotion and knowledge. Genome records message not only through the order of chemical bases, and also through electromagnetic interaction of the charged particles in DNA molecules and gravitational interaction of all real particles in DNA molecules. The supernatural phenomena appeared in the state of meditation, sleep and dream are evidences of these interactions, and human upset with the supernatural phenomena is the object of psychiatric study.

      All human religions and human mythologies are from the same source, and through with different exegesis of different denomination. My experience is partially linked with Buddhism, my exegesis is based on Christianity and modern sciences. The supernatural beings also have discussed other religions with me. They often give false messages to encourage irrational behaviors, but allow human meditator to debate with them rationally. You can imagine the dialogues between Moses and God, and between John and various angels.

      Their grammars are somewhat different from human grammars. They like to use one word to express different things. The meditator often hear they say one word to mean every possible thing. There is a hierarchical structure of meaning in their expression, from surface to deep, and even radiating out. Their messages usually are very vague, and sometimes consciously misleading, and also guiding human towards new knowledge, forming hypothesis about phenomena in unknown realm.

      They warned me yesterday night evil cults would emerge enormously, if meditators half rationally and half irrationally accept their irrational encouragements. With the popularity of meditation, I believe this warning. Before this time, they had already discussed with me several times about possible new legislation related to the relationship between human world and supernatural world.

      I have a feeling they take us human as the objects of their experimental observation, which may be a proper hypothesis to explain the very complex interactions between them and us human, and their attitudes towards the results of these interactions. We, human, as a whole, need through legislation to tell them our general attitude to the relationship with them. I believe there is perfect one and only perfect one god, who also guides them.

      With these knowledge more witnesses, more evidences, and more public, I believe human society may be heavily reshaped. All human behaviors are recorded in their observation, this fact will become a part of human self-consciousness, and human beings will much more concern the long term influences of their behaviors on each moment.

      I suggest the parliament hold a hearing, to collect witnesses and evidences of supernatural phenomena from meditators, as preparation for legislation in the relationship between human beings and supernatural beings, making the constitutional expression "the supremacy of god" meaningful, and as adjustment for investing in the field of meditation and genome. I believe this is the most important thing the current parliament should do.
    • By Exegesisme
      5 True Leadership from Future History, Political Philosophy for Human Future
      By Exegesisme
      1, God creates future history.
      2, Future history creates true leadership.
      3, True leadership creates real leadership.
      4, Real leadership creates actual leadership.
      5, Actual leadership gets the job done.
    • By Exegesisme
      The Reunion of Faith and Science, Creation and Evolution​
      By Exegesisme
      I do believe that Bible is a book about facts of body, emotion, soul, mind and spirit. Nowadays, a human understands bible in very narrow way which causes conflicts between faith and science, creation and evolution. This is false of human.
      To my understanding, Darwin was just unknowingly in the grace of God and found the real way through which God created everything. The only difference between the Bible and the theory of Darwin is that Bible is about the knowledge of everything, and the theory of Darwin is about the knowledge from human thinking in a very limited domain and on very limited facts in that domain.
      If we understand Bible with open mind, we can explain everything on Bible that today science can explain. However, the authorities of religions persist their explanations, which make all major conflicts between faith and science, creation and evolution. We should learn from Newton, do more job on the reunion of faith and science, creation and evolution, And do not learn anything from Kant, he was a man who was arrogantly to limit the domain of God, and to open the door for human demon.
  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...