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America under President Trump

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1 hour ago, Shady said:

Well, they're economy is like 10 times bigger than ours, so it would be almost impossible for JT to run a comparable deficit.  Apples n oranges.  Both are very bad at spending/deficits.  However, JT promised that the budget would be balanced this year.  Not only is he wrong, but a deficit is projected for like another 10 years.

More talking Debt to GDP. A deficit of $1 trillion vs say $30 million is far less than 10 times. Canada could double its deficit and it'd still be responsible compared to the US. Then again we don't spend more than all other developed nations on the military. 

Anyway you examine it. The US debt/deficit problem is far worse than Canada's. 

Edited by Boges

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3 hours ago, Shady said:

Universal health care will cost 30 - 40 trillion dollars over 10 years.  Even Sanders admits that.  Besides, America has barely a footprint in Afghanistan anymore.  Trump has ended pretty much all the ongoing wars.  So I'm not sure what money you're using to pay for things.  As there is currently a very large deficit, let alone Bernie's new massive spending.

A tax hike would be required, no doubt.

But Americans would also not have to endure some of the most expensive health insurance in the world. 

I've heard Americans have to pay like $500/month for Health Insurance. And pay deductibles in the thousands for emergency services. As a Canadian that doesn't have to worry about that bill, that's insane.

Edited by Boges

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26 minutes ago, Boges said:

A tax hike would be required, no doubt.

But Americans would also not have to endure some of the most expensive health insurance in the world. 

I've heard Americans have to pay like $500/month for Health Insurance. And pay deductibles in the thousands for emergency services. As a Canadian that doesn't have to worry about that bill, that's insane.

Those are the points Sanders drives home as well.  Yes taxes go up. People will pay more in taxes, but then they won't need to pay for deductibles, hospital visits. And when you change or lose your job , under the current system you are screwed. Under Sanders' plan, you are covered.  Hence the average American will save thousands of dollars a year. Millions more will actually have coverage. And yes their taxes will also help pay for the healthcare system.  Everyone pays in and everyone benefits.

Currently only those who can afford it can pay for it. Anyone who can't afford it can't even see a doctor without paying the very high cost.

 

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1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Those are the points Sanders drives home as well.  Yes taxes go up. People will pay more in taxes, but then they won't need to pay for deductibles, hospital visits. And when you change or lose your job , under the current system you are screwed. Under Sanders' plan, you are covered.  Hence the average American will save thousands of dollars a year. Millions more will actually have coverage. And yes their taxes will also help pay for the healthcare system.  Everyone pays in and everyone benefits.

Currently only those who can afford it can pay for it. Anyone who can't afford it can't even see a doctor without paying the very high cost.

When talking about Universal Healthcare, the narrative is often framed as: 

Rich American that can pay for whatever they want

vs

Middle class Canadian that has to wait 2 months for an MRI, but wouldn't be able to pay for one even if he/she could

It's not Apples to Apples. 

Even if you do have insurance in the US, you still are at the whim of a for-profit Insurance company. I'd rather have the government decide how to allocate healthcare funds over a company that only wants to make money. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Boges said:

When talking about Universal Healthcare, the narrative is often framed as: 

Rich American that can pay for whatever they want

vs

Middle class Canadian that has to wait 2 months for an MRI, but wouldn't be able to pay for one even if he/she could

It's not Apples to Apples. 

Even if you do have insurance in the US, you still are at the whim of a for-profit Insurance company. I'd rather have the government decide how to allocate healthcare funds over a company that only wants to make money. 

 

I think Sanders proposed to eliminate for profit insurance companies. Cutting out the middle man that sucks money from the government and the citizens. Single payer healthcare plan. One plan that covers them all.   And yes people can still buy supplemental insurance if they want and Companies in Canada still offer health benefits above the standard universal health care in Canada. BUT even without a job, a a trip to the hospital is covered.

You are correct, they cannot be compared, very different system.

 

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

But I thought Trump was for the everyman. 

"Central Casting" in the Rustbelt. 

 

Why would you think that when it comes to taxes ?

The U.S. Congress passes tax legislation, not the president.

 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

A tax hike would be required, no doubt.

But Americans would also not have to endure some of the most expensive health insurance in the world. 

I've heard Americans have to pay like $500/month for Health Insurance. And pay deductibles in the thousands for emergency services. As a Canadian that doesn't have to worry about that bill, that's insane.

I've heard the opposite.  But it kind of depends on when you started to apply for insurance.

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1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

I think Sanders proposed to eliminate for profit insurance companies. Cutting out the middle man that sucks money from the government and the citizens. Single payer healthcare plan. One plan that covers them all.   And yes people can still buy supplemental insurance if they want and Companies in Canada still offer health benefits above the standard universal health care in Canada. BUT even without a job, a a trip to the hospital is covered.

You are correct, they cannot be compared, very different system.

 

Sanders is totally gonna save American's money by covering non-American's too. :rolleyes:

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Just now, Shady said:

I've heard the opposite.  But it kind of depends on when you started to apply for insurance.

This should never need to be the scenario.

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1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

This should never need to be the scenario.

I tend to agree.  But if you’re irresponsible and wait until you’re sick to get insurance, that’s one of the problems.  Universal health care is fine for a lemming type populace that can’t take care of itself, which is what our society has been promoting for decades.  Let the government take care of it!  Anyways, I favour a hybrid system like in Germany.

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1 hour ago, Shady said:

I tend to agree.  But if you’re irresponsible and wait until you’re sick to get insurance, that’s one of the problems.  Universal health care is fine for a lemming type populace that can’t take care of itself, which is what our society has been promoting for decades.  Let the government take care of it!  Anyways, I favour a hybrid system like in Germany.

How does one get insurance in the USA Shady? Knowing you live in Canada, I will bet that you would much prefer Canada's health care system compared to the USA's current system.

Lemmings?  Dumb.

 

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5 hours ago, Boges said:

A tax hike would be required, no doubt.

But Americans would also not have to endure some of the most expensive health insurance in the world. 

I've heard Americans have to pay like $500/month for Health Insurance. And pay deductibles in the thousands for emergency services. As a Canadian that doesn't have to worry about that bill, that's insane.

It is becasue Canada's health insurance is monopoly.

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1 hour ago, egghead said:

It is becasue Canada's health insurance is monopoly.

So is Swiss health insurance, the Swiss state regulates their insurance companies strictly, the difference is the Swiss simply allow a profit motive at the high end, in order to fund basic coverage for all.

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2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

So is Swiss health insurance, the Swiss state regulates their insurance companies strictly, the difference is the Swiss simply allow a profit motive at the high end, in order to fund basic coverage for all.

The Swiss tax the rich?!  Since when did you start holding up commies as a better example?

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

The Swiss tax the rich?!  Since when did you start holding up commies as a better example?

I am all in favour of taxing the rich, the rich are fine with taxing the rich too, they simply take the option to pay capital gains instead of income tax.

In terms of the Swiss, they have the best healthcare system in the world, because they recognize that public healthcare is not actually "free" but rather expensive.

In order to make it sustainable, they leverage the profit motive in order to pay for the not rich, I don't say poor, because nobody in Switzerland is actually poor, because they run it so well.

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And then there's this. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/20/politics/donald-trump-jewish-americans-democrat-disloyalty/index.html

Quote

President Donald Trump on Tuesday criticized Jewish Americans who vote for Democrats, saying "it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

Trump was speaking to the press in the Oval Office about two Democratic congresswomen barred from entering Israel over their involvement in the movement to end international support for the country because of its policies toward Palestinians.

"Five years ago, the concept of even talking about this -- even three years ago -- of cutting off aid to Israel because of two people that hate Israel and hate Jewish people -- I can't believe we're even having this conversation," Trump added. "Where has the Democratic Party gone? Where have they gone where they're defending these two people over the State of Israel?"

Well there goes your Jewish support Trumpy. 

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14 hours ago, egghead said:

It is becasue Canada's health insurance is monopoly.

That's how a government run universal healthcare system works.

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10 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I am all in favour of taxing the rich, the rich are fine with taxing the rich too, they simply take the option to pay capital gains instead of income tax.

In terms of the Swiss, they have the best healthcare system in the world, because they recognize that public healthcare is not actually "free" but rather expensive.

In order to make it sustainable, they leverage the profit motive in order to pay for the not rich, I don't say poor, because nobody in Switzerland is actually poor, because they run it so well.

Actually all other developed nations have public and private options. . . accept Canada, of course.

 

Edited by Boges

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1 minute ago, Boges said:

Actually all other developed nations have public and private options. . . accept Canada, of course.

It's here in Canada too, I have a private healthcare clinic in downtown Toronto which I pay extra for, two tiered healthcare, but in Canada that is not subsidized for everyone, that's only for the wealthy in Canada, whereas the Swiss subsidize for everyone.

Now you do have to pay a premium in Switzerland, but the average Canadian actually pays $500 a month in taxes for public healthcare, the Swiss pay premiums which are more like $200 a month.

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3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Now you do have to pay a premium in Switzerland, but the average Canadian actually pays $500 a month in taxes for public healthcare, the Swiss pay premiums which are more like $200 a month.

Can you cite how the number of $500/month is achieved? 

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2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Can you cite how the number of $500/month is achieved? 

The average Canadian pays $5789.00 in taxes which go to healthcare, so divide six thousand by twelve.

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