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Is pro-choice a rational position?


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This is where hypocrisy reigns again with the pro-life Christians. Many Christians use IVF as a means to overcome infertility.

:rolleyes:

That's just like saying hypocrisy reigns with Christians because there are Christians who commit murder, adultery, fraud, etc...,

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Well then you should find out about it so you are prepared to discuss this Christian dilemma.

Btw, you've got a lot of catching up to do - in a lot of topics that we've covered. A lot you didn't get.

Don't worry about me. Worry about yourself.....

Edited by betsy
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Btw, you've got a lot of catching up to do - in a lot of topics that we've covered. A lot you didn't get.

Don't worry about me. Worry about yourself.....

If you want to discuss pro-choice you need to include IVF in the discussion and not deflect.

You are obviously worried about something or you wouldn't deflect this issue.

Edited by WestCoastRunner
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I'm basing mine from science and logic. Refer to OP.

Where do you base yours?

You are confusing logic with emotional response.

It is not logical to force somebody to have a child when it is not wanted or can be taken care of.

It is logical to make the choice that is right for you.

I had a vesicteme because I did not want any more children. That was the logical choice.

The 16 year old girl that got pregnant in the back of a pickup truck behind the mall made the choice to use science to have a legal medical procedure to get rid of it.

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If you want to discuss pro-choice you need to include IVF in the discussion and not deflect.

You are obviously worried about something or you wouldn't deflect this issue.

I really wish you would address this. You can educate your mind and do research on this and respond at a later date. But until you can defend pro-choice according to your meaning of human embryo you need to stfu.

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I agree with #1 and #2.

But what's the sperm gotta do with this?

Life begins with fertilization. Do you understand what that is? Yes or no.

I would agree with you if you were correct. But you are not. Google 'parthogenesis' , which deals with the creation of fully formed life without benefit of fertilization. Many species already do achieve this, and it will soon be readily attainable by humans. There is no question that it is possible because the science is mature. . And then there is cloning....

The entireity of your argument, all of it, is based on the notion that a fetus is the same thing as a baby. In Canada, that notion is rejected in law and in the firm opinions of a majority of Canadians opinions. Get over it.

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You are confusing logic with emotional response.

It is not logical to force somebody to have a child when it is not wanted or can be taken care of.

It is logical to make the choice that is right for you.

I had a vesicteme because I did not want any more children. That was the logical choice.

The 16 year old girl that got pregnant in the back of a pickup truck behind the mall made the choice to use science to have a legal medical procedure to get rid of it.

Sorry Ash, but you're barking at the wrong direction. I talk about logic and the fetus.

Read the OP.

Edited by betsy
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Blue cheese is a disgusting, abomination that tastes like vomit. If I have some cheddar and mold grows on it, I either cut it off or throw out the rest of the brick. Yet, some people eat moldy cheese on purpose. Sure I don't have to eat moldy cheese but that's not good enough; I want to pass a law banning all access to blue cheese! In the meantime none of my employees can eat blue cheese during working hours or buy it with money earned via my company. I would also like the legal option to discriminate against anyone who tolerates the abomination or even associates with someone who does. Any push back on this is an assault on my freedom of thought and choice.

Edited by Guest
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Sorry Ash, but you're barking at the wrong direction. I talk about logic and the fetus.

Read the OP.

I have read the OP.

Your sources are a tad biased towards the Pro life argument. (You know...the side that lost)

Blue cheese is a disgusting, abomination that tastes like vomit. If I have some cheddar and mold grows on it, I either cut it off or throw out the rest of the brick. Yet, some people eat moldy cheese on purpose. Sure I don't have to eat moldy cheese but that's not good enough; I want to pass a law banning all access to blue cheese! In the meantime none of my employees can eat blue cheese during working hours or buy it with money earned via my company. I would also like the legal option to discriminate against anyone who tolerates the abomination or even associates with someone who does. Any push back on this is an assault on my freedom of thought and choice.

But that mold is a form of biologic life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you kill it.

You are eating cheese that was processed using animal bi-products that are for the feeding of young animals not for your enjoyment!!!!!!

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I would agree with you if you were correct. But you are not. Google 'parthogenesis' , which deals with the creation of fully formed life without benefit of fertilization. Many species already do achieve this, and it will soon be readily attainable by humans. There is no question that it is possible because the science is mature. . And then there is cloning....

The entireity of your argument, all of it, is based on the notion that a fetus is the same thing as a baby. In Canada, that notion is rejected in law and in the firm opinions of a majority of Canadians opinions. Get over it.

:rolleyes:

parthenogenesis is a type of asexual reproduction in which the offspring develops from unfertilized eggs. It is particularly common amongst arthropods and rotifers, can also be found in some species of fish, amphibians, birds, and reptiles, but not in mammals.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/parthenogenesis.aspx

Get back to me when humans start doing it that way.

Edited by betsy
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The entirety of the argument is that there is a religious basis for deciding what people can and cannot do. There isn't.

This thread uses secular arguments. As I've already explained in previous posts, there are atheist and humanist groups that are pro-life activists. To them, it's about human rights.

Edited by betsy
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This thread uses secular arguments. As I've already explained in previous posts, there are atheist and humanist groups that are pro-life activists. To them, it's about human rights.

http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/abortioninfo/misconce.shtml

This is an old argument and even bringing this up gets people's backs up as much as when you whisper "gun control" in Texas.or New York.

You get both sides of the story.

Abortion is here to stay and science will just get better at it.

We do need better forms of birth control and protection from STD's (condoms suck) but do not expect that a bible thumping "science" site will help your argument no matter how many times you tell people to read it.

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http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/abortioninfo/misconce.shtml

This is an old argument and even bringing this up gets people's backs up as much as when you whisper "gun control" in Texas.or New York.

You get both sides of the story.

Abortion is here to stay and science will just get better at it.

We do need better forms of birth control and protection from STD's (condoms suck) but do not expect that a bible thumping "science" site will help your argument no matter how many times you tell people to read it.

That's not really an argument, Ash. You can't really say with certainty that, "abortion is here to stay."

I bet that's what slavers thought so too, in their hey day. "Slavery is here to stay!"

Abortion became legal due to feminism. That should be a fair warning enough to all.

All you need are same-minded people sitting in power, and the popular ideology of the time.

If laws can change (like abortion laws).......you can't really rely on it. The law can change again.

Edited by betsy
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Abortion became legal due to feminism. That should be a fair warning enough to all.

All you need are same-minded people sitting in power, and the popular ideology of the time.

.

Womens rights to abortion were due to the landmark case 'Roe vs Wade'. The decision was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court and not by feminists and influenced Canada's approach to abortions.

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That's not really an argument, Ash. You can't really say with certainty that, "abortion is here to stay."

I bet that's what slavers thought so too, in their hey day. "Slavery is here to stay!"

Abortion became legal due to feminism. That should be a fair warning enough to all.

All you need are same-minded people sitting in power, and the popular ideology of the time.

If laws can change (like abortion laws).......you can't really rely on it. The law can change again.

That is part of the argument about abortion.

Women were having back alley abortions when it was illegal.

Slavery is one of the few things everybody on this site agrees it is wrong and is illegal but it still exists.

ww.freetheslaves.net/about-slavery/slavery-today/

so even when "same-minded people sitting in power,and popular ideology of the time" exists you can't stop when people want somethig.

Edited by Ash74
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Betsy is unconvincable. It's not even worth discussing things with someone who holds dogmatic faith-based beliefs that defy logic. I made a post pages ago about people, whether born or not, having absolutely no right to the use of another person's body medically or otherwise. It went unanswered because there is no rational defence of a position that holds someone's body hostage to the medical needs of another person. This makes anti-abortion positions an unethical violation of bodily autonomy.

Edited by cybercoma
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Betsy is unconvincable. It's not even worth discussing things with someone who holds dogmatic faith-based beliefs that defy logic. I made a post pages ago about people, whether born or not, having absolutely no right to the use of another person's body medically or otherwise. It went unanswered because there is no rational defence of a position that holds someone's body hostage to the medical needs of another person. This makes anti-abortion positions an unethical violation of bodily autonomy.

Very true.

I personally despise abortion. I wish it was no longer needed and the thought of it is disgusting to me.

But that is my "choice".

Some people just cannot stay out of other peoples affairs and that is the real issue.

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I made a post pages ago about people, whether born or not, having absolutely no right to the use of another person's body medically or otherwise. It went unanswered because there is no rational defence of a position that holds someone's body hostage to the medical needs of another person. .

You are absolutely right that she doesn't respond when she is challenged. Nevertheless, I like to respond because of the lurkers.

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Very true.

I personally despise abortion. I wish it was no longer needed and the thought of it is disgusting to me.

But that is my "choice".

Some people just cannot stay out of other peoples affairs and that is the real issue.

It's not disgusting.

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It's not disgusting.

That is my point. I personally find it repulsive but that is my choice.

If you want to get into the semantics of it, name one medical procedure that is not?

A boob job may bring about a wonderful final result but I don't want to watch the procedure.

The miracle of childbirth is the grossest shit I have ever witnessed.

etc,etc

Edited by Ash74
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