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Progressives and Islam

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What SJWs fail to understand is that power varies far far more from individual to individual than it does by race or gender or religion. Individuals hold power, not races or genders.

When the majority of individuals who hold power share similar or even identical traits, then I think it's a safe bet to say that it is that segment of society who holds power and accrues privilege. After all, in Egypt, it would be foolish to say that Coptic Christians hold power, when only 36 of nearly 600 parliamentarians are Christian. Those 36 people do not somehow raise the rest of the Coptic Christians into an equal place within their society; the societal class structure where Muslims are the ones who have power and privilege remains. It works the same even when the defining characteristics of the power class isn't religion, but gender and/or skin color.

The way to move forward is to empower those individuals who, for whatever reason, have been dealt a bad hand in life, not to dwell on guilt and so-called "privilege" and to create scapegoats.

I agree that leveling the playing field so that there really is equal opportunity for everyone is the goal. But claiming that the group who currently holds power, and the associated privilege, doesn't really exist is not helpful. One cannot solve a problem one refuses to acknowledge exists.

Unfortunately, the masses of society always like to latch onto a single thought or problem or enemy rather than considering the full complexity of a situation. Hence blaming all ills on a scapegoat, whether it be outsiders and immigrants as we see with Trump, or as in the case of the social justice movement, on white males. The movements are two sides of the same coin: find someone to blame and stop thinking.

There's a middle ground where one sees the problem, but uses that to inform and drive change rather than 'blaming', 'giving up' or 'ceasing to think'. The full complexity of the problem requires acknowledging that the current power structure in our society still has white males at the top, though I believe we've made considerable progress in changing that.

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It's always been a strange puzzle to those of us who tend to think clearly, how desperately supportive liberals and progressives are of Islam. It almost seems that nothing is more important to a liberal than the spread of Islam - which is a political philosophy, as well as a religion, which despises every single thing liberalism and progressivism is supposed to be about.

How can anyone who is zealous in support of gay and gender rights, of the non-judgement of sexual, social and physical differences, throw themselves unhesitatingly behind a social/political system which is literally translated into "submission", which means you must surrender yourself to the will of God in all things, and live your life entirely according to a rigid social code.

That social code does not allow for equality between genders. In fact, it explicitly prohibits it. It requires homosexuals of any sort be killed. It does not permit argument or disagreement, and any attempt at rebelling against its laws brings death.

Perhaps the answer is in the following. It supports what I've noticed myself, how progressives make a fetish of never judging other races/cultures/religions - although of course, they have no issue judging Christianity or conservatives...

They were raised to believe that indiscriminateness is a moral imperative. That the only way to be moral is to not discriminate between right and wrong, good and evil, better and worse, truth and lies because your act of discrimination discriminating between these things might just be a reflection of your personal discrimination, your bigotries.

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2016/06/18/why-liberals-support-muslims-who-hate-everything-they-stand-for-n2180270

If you don't like Islam, don't join.

All organized religion is stupid, imo.

So I don't join one.

I am free not to.

Others are free to join what they wish.

It's called defending freedom of thought, speech and association... freedom of religion.

It's really pretty clear and simple.

What is it that you don't grasp about that?

.

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I'm not talking about radicals. Radicals are people who are outside the mainstream. Islam certainly has those. But even mainstream Islam's beliefs are, by our standards, pretty damned extreme in terms of its treatment of women and others.

Like, progressives will be filled with anger at some social conservative who doesn't believe in gay marriage, but then they'll smile and nod tolerantly at some Muslim who says gays should all be executed. It's pretty strange.

The content of a religion is totally irrelevant to respecting freedom of religion.

You are free to believe in virgin birth, talking to animals, genies in lamps, 'chosen people' ... whatever you wish.

What is it about that that you can't grasp?

.

Edited by jacee

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Like, progressives will be filled with anger at some social conservative who doesn't believe in gay marriage, but then they'll smile and nod tolerantly at some Muslim who says gays should all be executed. It's pretty strange.

Well so long as they only execute gay conservatives.

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What SJWs fail to understand is that power varies far far more from individual to individual than it does by race or gender or religion. Individuals hold power, not races or genders.

Why do you suppose I focus so much on making the topmost echelons of society subject to the sort of monitoring they would impose on everyone beneath them?

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Progressives are all about social equality, making power-relations more equal to fight "injustice" as they see it. Social justice warriors. This can come from any systemic power imbalance, but since whites and males are the most powerful groups in modern history they're usually the target.

What a fundamental misunderstanding. White men are not the target​. The target is lifting up those who face injustices and oppression. It has nothing to do with white men, except in the mind of scared little white boys who can't get their heads around the fact that they're not the centre of the universe. It's not about them at all. It's about equality for those who don't have it. Period.

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We know progressives dislike white men, the question posed is about the unusual and seemingly hypocritical love and defence of Islam that progressives constantly display.

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The problem between freedom of religion (or freedom from religion) and Islam is that Islam does not believe in freedom of religion...or freedom from religion. Pretty simple.

As the Quran tell us...Allah's own words via Muhammad...

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

https://quran.com/8/39

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When the majority of individuals who hold power share similar or even identical traits, then I think it's a safe bet to say that it is that segment of society who holds power and accrues privilege.

That would be rich people. A poor white guy is no more likely to make himself rich than a poor brown guy in today's Canada, and has no more power, and probably less since nobody is going to give him preferential treatment or stand up for him.

It works the same even when the defining characteristics of the power class isn't religion, but gender and/or skin color.

Yet the defining characteristics of power in the Muslim world is Islam, and progressives here still rush to defend them, rather than castigating them and demanding they grant more freedom to their people. The Palestinian territories are jammed with western do-gooder progressives who say not one word about the corruption and human rights violations of the Palestinian leadership, but instead defend them.

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If you don't like Islam, don't join.

Simple enough, except that unlike Jews, Muslims don't tend to keep their religion to themselves. Instead they agitate to make the laws and rules and values of a society fit into Islam's requirements.

It seems that as soon as the Muslim population passes a certain point they start demanding accommodation, special acknowledgement of Islamic laws and values, and if they don't get it, they take out the AK-47s and machetes and start killing.

Edited by Argus

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The content of a religion is totally irrelevant to respecting freedom of religion.

Really? So we should respect those who worship the sun and sacrifice virgins?

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It seems that as soon as the Muslim population passes a certain point they start demanding accommodation, special acknowledgement of Islamic laws and values, and if they don't get it, they take out the AK-47s and machetes and start killing.
So you see Muslim's in Canada today as waiting patiently for the Day?

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Really? So we should respect those who worship the sun and sacrifice virgins?

Well worshiping the Sun would at least make some sense since at least it actually exists and is actually responsible for making life on Earth possible.

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So you see Muslim's in Canada today as waiting patiently for the Day?

The Muslim population is doubling every ten years. In about ten to fifteen years time we will be where the UK is now. In maybe twenty years we'll be where France is now.

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This is a demonstration of the most ridiculously absurd hysteria I've ever seen. Muslims are the folk devil of the day and cowards are buying it hook line and sinker.

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Citizenship re-instated (rightly so I might add) and therefore other muslims in Canada are... what?

The point was that even with a comparatively small population of Muslims we still had some of them getting together to plan things like that. Double and triple and quadruple the number of Muslims and you're going to get the same shit they get in France if you don't ensure those Muslims adopt Canadian values.

Edited by Argus

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To hell with Canadian values. The question is: Are they committing crimes? Most muslims are not. As you said earlier

we're talking about a GROUP, and of the behaviour which is THE NORM among that group,

The norm is law abiding muslims going about thier business.

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To hell with Canadian values. The question is: Are they committing crimes? Most muslims are not. As you said earlier

The norm is law abiding muslims going about thier business.

The norm is also hating Jews and thinking women who aren't Muslims are whores - and treating them as such.

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Most muslims in Canada do not hate jews. Nor do they treat non-muslim women as whores. You're pulling a whole lot of crap out of the middle-east and slapping it on people who do not deserve it in the name of your Group bullshit.

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The content of a religion is totally irrelevant to respecting freedom of religion.

You are free to believe in virgin birth, talking to animals, genies in lamps, 'chosen people' ... whatever you wish.

What is it about that that you can't grasp?

That's not true. They wouldn't allow honour-killings if it were part of a religion. And smaller religions can be named "cults" rather than religions if they don't receive a certain kind of reputable recognition to be considered a true "religion".

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What a fundamental misunderstanding. White men are not the target​. The target is lifting up those who face injustices and oppression. It has nothing to do with white men, except in the mind of scared little white boys who can't get their heads around the fact that they're not the centre of the universe. It's not about them at all. It's about equality for those who don't have it. Period.

You didn't even read what I wrote, or you misunderstood. You repeated what I said, but added that white men are not "the target". I never said they were the target, I said they're usually the target because power imbalances and oppression have often been caused by them. I'm not saying progressives don't fight other forms of inequality caused by other groups/individuals.

Here's what I said and I stand by it:

Progressives are all about social equality, making power-relations more equal to fight "injustice" as they see it. Social justice warriors. This can come from any systemic power imbalance, but since whites and males are the most powerful groups in modern history they're usually the target.
Edited by Moonlight Graham

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Simple enough, except that unlike Jews, Muslims don't tend to keep their religion to themselves. Instead they agitate to make the laws and rules and values of a society fit into Islam's requirements.

Like Christians. I've never had a Muslim at my door though....

It seems that as soon as the Muslim population passes a certain point they start demanding accommodation, special acknowledgement of Islamic laws and values, and if they don't get it, they take out the AK-47s and machetes and start killing.

More than a million Muslims in Canada.... When do the machetes come out??

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