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Terrorism in Turkey

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I cannot say "Altai is stupid" in this forum, but I can say "What you said is stupid". Calling you stupid will get me suspended for some period of time but only if someone complains to the moderators.

Outside this forum I can call anybody stupid and I will not be arrested. But I can't say I want to kill someone; that may get me arrested.

So its also forbidden in the forum because we all are aware of it that its something bad and harmful. Outside of this forum, it is still something bad and harmful. If you have right to say whatever you want, I have right to walk on the streets of my country without being disturbed by someones. You cant harm me.

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I find it interesting that any sort of insult could result in legal action in Turkey. Do you know if many people actually go to the courts if they are insulted? Are insults rarely heard between people?

I dont see people around me who insults each other because of they want to insult. Maybe just in fights. Also if you call someone "stupid" they probably wont go to the police but they will directly punch you in the face : )

Edited by Altai

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I dont see people around me who insults each other because of they want to insult. Maybe just in fights. Also if you call someone "stupid" they probably wont go to the police but they will directly punch you in the face : )

Being allowed to cause offense is the foundation of freedom of speech and many other freedoms. Almost every reform and scientific advance in western history initially caused outrage and grave offense to a lot of people when others first thought of it.

Calling someone stupid is not harmful. Sometimes it's even true. Punching someone in the face IS harmful, and illegal.

Edited by Argus

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Being allowed to cause offense is the foundation of freedom of speech and many other freedoms. Almost every reform and scientific advance in western history initially caused outrage and grave offense to a lot of people when others first thought of it.

Calling someone stupid is not harmful. Sometimes it's even true. Punching someone in the face IS harmful, and illegal.

I am asking quite simple question. If its not harmful, why it is not allowed in the forum ?

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Lots of snowflakes on MLW that get triggered. Can't have the poor dears melt in the Sunlight.

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Folks,

Please avoid thread drift.

I am asking quite simple question. If its not harmful, why it is not allowed in the forum ?

---- because it is harmful to the forum.

It derails the discussion.

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I am asking quite simple question. If its not harmful, why it is not allowed in the forum ?

This forum like many political forums has rules. The rules do not necessarily make sense Altai on forums.

It is true, certain things are not allowed on this forum that violate freedom of speech but are not allowed

to try prevent the forum members from insulting one another. It has nothing to do with the law. Each forum

decides how much insulting it allows before its "moderators" step in.

Actually Altai on this forum regular members insult one another all the time and use ways around the rules to

insult all kinds of people.

Now in the real world, you have countries. Some countries arrest a person the moment that person says something

the government considers unacceptable.

Here in Canada we do have a Charter of Rights that is a law that applies to all laws and says we have the right to say things

and state opinions.

However our free speech does have limits. Its not absolute. For example, I can not go into a crowded movie theatre and yell

fire if there is no fire.

I can not stand up in public and ask people or encourage people to commit crimes or express violence or do things with my words

to get people to lose their temper.

Even certain words I say might get me arrested. For example if I said I hate all Turks and we should kill them all, that is called a hate crime.

If I said, let's kill Queen Elizabeth that is a crime.

So we do have limits yes.

The point though is this. The current leader of Turkey, Mr. Erdogan has arrested and continues to arrest thousands of people simply because he feels they do not agree with him. That is what is criticized.

By the way, we had a Prime MInister, Pierre Trudeau, who was the father of our current Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Pierre Trudeau invoked what is called the War Measures Act that did a thing similiar to what Erdogan is doing now. Our Charter of Rights came into power and no longer allows what he did to happen.

Now when we talk on this forum, its true we do things in Canada that are not perfect if that is your point. However for discussion purposes without you thinking I am saying I am better than you because I am not, I do not like and others do not like Erdogan's policies and his current crack down and that makes us Turks, Canadians, all kinds of people. We disagree with what he is doing. I also support the Kurds and don't appreciate Erdogan has worked with Iran and Russia to crush them, and has also support extremist Muslim Sunni terror cells that now have turned on him. That is just my opinion but if I said that in Turkey I would be arrested. I can say out loud in Canada I do not like Justin Trudeau and hate his policies. I will not get arrested but if I said I want to kill him, yes I would be.

One other thing. People do openly and loudly criticize Israeli policies in Canada including me a Jew who lived in Israel and supports its right to exist as a Jewish state. Its false to say this does not happen. Hey just open the internet and type evil Israel and see what you get. In fact on this forum I fight with a handful of people because when they criticize Israel, they personally attack the right of Jews to have a Jewish state, make false and insulting statements about Jews, Israelis, Zionists, and flood the board with threads where they do not provide any evidence but repeat the same personal insults, i.e., calling Jews cancer.

They insult all Jews and their rights to be Jews in an Israeli state under the pretext they are criticizing Israel state policies.

If when expressing disagreement against Erdogan or his policies, I insult all Turks or their right to be Turks, that is wrong. I hope you understand when people criticize Erdogan they do not mean to insult you or Turks as people.

Forums are full of hateful people yes. A forum can give someone an opportunity to lash out and hate an entire people.

Please believe me when I say and most others do mean the same thing, when we criticize Erdogan policies, we do not mean to insult you or Turks.

We just do not like free speech being trampled on. I do not think I am better than you. I am a proud Canadian and I volunteered in Israel and always put Canada first and I have worked side by side with Muslims in Israel and elsewhere and just because we have a conflict over the West Bank does not mean we all hate each other just as I hope one day Turkey can find peace with the Kurds and I wish you both peace.

If you are a young woman with your life in front of you then I say to you that makes you a daughter in my world and I have a

responsibility as an older man to work to make the world better for your generation not worse and if you think the words or ideas from people like me are hateful, you speak out. I taught my daughters to speak out like you. Just because I disagree with some things you say does not mean I do not respect your right to those views.

Edited by Rue

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This forum like many political forums has rules. The rules do not necessarily make sense Altai on forums.

It is true, certain things are not allowed on this forum that violate freedom of speech but are not allowed

to try prevent the forum members from insulting one another. It has nothing to do with the law. Each forum

decides how much insulting it allows before its "moderators" step in.

Actually Altai on this forum regular members insult one another all the time and use ways around the rules to

insult all kinds of people.

Now in the real world, you have countries. Some countries arrest a person the moment that person says something

the government considers unacceptable.

Here in Canada we do have a Charter of Rights that is a law that applies to all laws and says we have the right to say things

and state opinions.

However our free speech does have limits. Its not absolute. For example, I can not go into a crowded movie theatre and yell

fire if there is no fire.

I can not stand up in public and ask people or encourage people to commit crimes or express violence or do things with my words

to get people to lose their temper.

Even certain words I say might get me arrested. For example if I said I hate all Turks and we should kill them all, that is called a hate crime.

If I said, let's kill Queen Elizabeth that is a crime.

So we do have limits yes.

The point though is this. The current leader of Turkey, Mr. Erdogan has arrested and continues to arrest thousands of people simply because he

feels they do not agree with him. That is what is criticized.

By the way, we had a Prime MInister, Pierre Trudeau, who was the father of our current Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Pierre Trudeau invoked what is called the War Measures Act that did a thing similiar to what Erdogan is doing now. Our Charter of Rights came into power and no longer allows what he did to happen.

Now when we talk on this forum, its true we do things in Canada that are not perfect if that is your point. However for discussion purposes without you thinking I am saying I am better than you because I am not, I do not like and others do not like Erdogan's policies and his current crack down and that makes us Turks, Canadians, all kinds of people. We disagree with what he is doing. I also think he is a liar about the Kurds and worked with Iran and Russia to crush them, abd has supported extremist Muslim Sunni terror cells that now have turned on him.

He also goes back and forth first Russia's friend, then its enemy, then its friend, same with Iran, Hezbollah, ISIL, Al Quaeda, Egypt, Saudio Arabia.

One other thing. People do openly and loudly criticize Israeli policies in Canada including me a Jew who lived in Israel and supports its right to exist as a Jewish state. Its false to say this does not happen. Hey just open the internet and type evil Israel and see what you get.

On this forum I fight with a handful of people because when they criticize Israel, they personally attack the right of Jews to have a Jewish state,

make false and insulting statements about Jews, Israelis, Zionists, and flood the board with threads where they do not provide any evidence but repeat the same personal insults, i.e., calling Jews cancer.

Forums are full of hateful people. A forum can give someone an opportunity to lash out and hate an entire people.

Please believe me when I say and most others do mean the same thing, when we criticize Erdogan policies, we do not mean to insult you or Turks.

We just do not like free speech being trampled on. I do not think I am better than you. I am a proud Canadian and I volunteered in Israel but I worked with Muslims. I don;t hate Muslims, Turks or you. I just hate to see people's rights taken away or anyone who is a terrorist.

I want to reply you sooooo much but in the pre post Moderator warned us not to derail discussion. So I cant reply.

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No prob Altai. You can we are o.k. When we discuss terrorism Turkey faces I know you have opinions that your country needs to be protected.

I do understand the Kurds have a terrorist cell called PIK which I do not support. I do understand there is tension with your neighbours. I know you want what we all want, peace.

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There is no "terrorism" in the Middle East. Terrorism is a term conveniently applied to any action frowned upon by the West.

Turkey is involved in civil wars against at least two other faction, Iraq also in at least two, as is Syria and all those other nations who should not have stuck their noses into this conflict. As far as objective commentary is concerned, I believe that the only Middle East commentator who has consistently been proven correct is Eric Margolis. You can check his credentials through Google.

I believe his latest blog accurately describes the current problem in Turkey:

Eric Margolis

We now have a situation where different parts the American government are supporting different factions in Turkey.

Canada - get out of that fiasco - NOW!!

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PM Yildirim; "Totally 269 suicide bombers have been neutralized since January."


Wow wow wow, 26 suicide bombers per month, our security forces are really working hard. God bless them.

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On ‎2016‎-‎09‎-‎05 at 2:10 PM, Big Guy said:

There is no "terrorism" in the Middle East. Terrorism is a term conveniently applied to any action frowned upon by the West.

Turkey is involved in civil wars against at least two other faction, Iraq also in at least two, as is Syria and all those other nations who should not have stuck their noses into this conflict.

I see your point but, Isis attacked Turkey. Isis is not a nation. They are terrorists.

Edited by Benz
spelling turkey

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There are KIA and WIA in Turkey very often these days, lots of IEDs and car bombs recently, even things like ATGM attacks, SAM missile attacks and ambushes... Turkey is basically fighting a insurgency against the Kurds, and the kurds are reasonably well equipped and trained, with significant western support. The kurds and ISIS are not afraid to target civilians as has been seen by many of the attacks on Istanbul, I would describe these as terror tactics. Now you could argue that terror tactics within the framework of asymmetrical warfare towards a political end can be an effective strategy... however ugly. Massacres and targeting of civilians is certainly nothing new in civil warfare, insurgency, let alone middle eastern conflicts.

Anything coming out of AKP-friendly media regarding Kurdish casualties is pretty much over inflated BS. PKK and kurdish forces would be completely annihilated if the turkish military (TSK) had killed as many of them as they claim.

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18 minutes ago, Solidarity said:

There are KIA and WIA in Turkey very often these days, lots of IEDs and car bombs recently, even things like ATGM attacks, SAM missile attacks and ambushes... Turkey is basically fighting a insurgency against the Kurds, and the kurds are reasonably well equipped and trained, with significant western support. The kurds and ISIS are not afraid to target civilians as has been seen by many of the attacks on Istanbul, I would describe these as terror tactics. Now you could argue that terror tactics within the framework of asymmetrical warfare towards a political end can be an effective strategy... however ugly. Massacres and targeting of civilians is certainly nothing new in civil warfare, insurgency, let alone middle eastern conflicts.

Anything coming out of AKP-friendly media regarding Kurdish casualties is pretty much over inflated BS. PKK and kurdish forces would be completely annihilated if the turkish military (TSK) had killed as many of them as they claim.


LoL stop lying about my country, our Kurdish citizens are safe and they are against terror organizations. Your media is washing your brain. There are about 7 million Kurds in Turkiye and I have many Kurdish friends : ) 

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In last one week, 8 suicide bombers, 2 assansins, 157 tons of explosives have been neutralized by Turkish security forces. 

In last 5 days, 105 PKK terrorists have been killed.


God bless Turkish Security Forces, they are the number one in the World.

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On 10/28/2016 at 7:16 AM, Altai said:

In last one week, 8 suicide bombers, 2 assansins, 157 tons of explosives have been neutralized by Turkish security forces. 
In last 5 days, 105 PKK terrorists have been killed.
God bless Turkish Security Forces, they are the number one in the World.

And you know this because they tell you so, and make sure anyone who says otherwise never speaks again.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

And you know this because they tell you so, and make sure anyone who says otherwise never speaks again.

I know this because they are really good at their jobs. Why are you such disturbed by the killing of terrorists ? Are you a terrorism supporter ?

 

 

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So called MPs of HDP the parliament arm of PKK terror organization have been detained by security forces and sentenced to imprisonment. 



Thanks God, finally these terrorists are going to be punished.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/turkey-detains-hdp-leaders-demirtas-yuksekdag-161104042853124.html

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1 hour ago, Altai said:

So called MPs of HDP the parliament arm of PKK terror organization have been detained by security forces and sentenced to imprisonment. 
Thanks God, finally these terrorists are going to be punished.

Of course, any MP or journalist who doesn't support the Sultan is a 'terrorist'. Don't worry. Soon all enemies of the government will be in prison or executed and then you'll never have to hear or read a contrary thought. The Islamic state can proceed with its grand Sultan in his golden palace issuing decrees in Allah's name while funneling cash into his Swiss bank accounts.

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Turkey's treatment of their kurdish people is not as is portrayed by their media as is evident by these videos:

The treatment of :

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b8_1358902672&comments=1&use_old_player=0

 

Why can the kurdish people not have freedom to speak their own language:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e7e_1455573460&comments=1

This guy wants a genocide against Kurds: )Turkey already has a history of genocide against armenians)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e66_1452094785

 

Kurds in this bus are being attacked by stones in this video: Are they also terrorists!?!?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed6_1441876128

Edited by kactus

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I fear our friend Altai maybe having a hard time replying right now.

http://thenextweb.com/eu/2016/11/04/turkey-has-reportedly-blocked-twitter-facebook-and-whatsapp-nationwide/

She may have lost her Internet in the fight against terrorism.

All sarcasm aside. I hope I am wrong and this article is just media biased.

 

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......................quote fail..............................

Edited by Altai

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I really dont know why I cant quote someone properly. I have tried several times and still the same thing happen. Sorry, handle with this post, I wont try more.

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