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SpankyMcFarland

The fentanyl epidemic - what to do?

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A good article on Canada's plight:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/a-killer-high-how-canada-got-addicted-tofentanyl/article29570025/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

BTW the drug that killed the young Australian mentioned here (the son of the man who travelled to China), N-Bomb, is widely available in Canada and can be ordered over the Net. We have seen a death in my relatively remote community. It is far more dangerous than LSD. 

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On 2017-04-07 at 0:49 AM, bcsapper said:

To not prescribe a pain killer for pain is harm, in my opinion.  This wouldn't be the first time doctors have messed up with prescriptions. Look at antibiotics. But fix that, rather than punish those who need the drugs. 

I think we need to toughen up In this country. By some estimates, we are the worst in the world for prescription opioid use already, certainly near the top of the table. Not every pain needs a drug; not every bad pain needs an opioid. These drugs should be feared. 

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9 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think we need to toughen up In this country. By some estimates, we are the worst in the world for prescription opioid use already, certainly near the top of the table. Not every pain needs a drug; not every bad pain needs an opioid. These drugs should be feared. 

Sure, but are you advocating removing the option to prescribe a drug that could help some people, because others might use it illegally?  I don't agree with that.  By all means be circumspect when prescribing opoids, but put the patients real needs first.

In the end, users of illegal drugs have to take some responsibilty for their actions.  Others should not be made to suffer in order to alleviate that responsibility.

Edited by bcsapper

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12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sure, but are you advocating removing the option to prescribe a drug that could help some people, because others might use it illegally?  I don't agree with that.  By all means be circumspect when prescribing opoids, but put the patients real needs first.

In the end, users of illegal drugs have to take some responsibilty for their actions.  Others should not be made to suffer in order to alleviate that responsibility.

I guess I would like to see us closer to the middle of the pack on per capita opioid use. We don't want to be number one in this league table. I also agree on responsibility. The thing is that humans need help to make the right choices. Doctors have led a lot of people astray by overprescribing these drugs and underestimating their danger.

The supply issue has to be looked at too. Right now, the Chinese are ignoring mass production in their back yard. Our customs people need to be examining packages of every size. Obviously, cutting supply from China is by no means a solution as the stuff can be made anywhere, but it would be a start. 

We Canadians have responded slowly to this crisis and in a disorganized, literally provincial, fashion. This isn't about beer taxes, though. If we let this take its natural course, everybody will be affected one way or another. 

 

 

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On 9/18/2016 at 9:28 AM, TimG said:

These kinds of people are like the skiers that insist on going outside of the designated ski area.

That is a very good analogy.  Problem is: what to DO about it.

Personally, I am very comfortable when I get off of the plane in Riyadh and I see the sign warning the penalty for dealing drugs is death.   I would love to see that here, but we are such a spineless society, we have no backbone to do what is right.

With a government that is going headlong into legalizing yet another gateway drug (alcohol being the first) it would seem laughable to suggest that better "education" is somehow going to stop addicts from shooting up with fentanyl.  We have become so accepting of massively over-prescribed meds, OTC meds and recreational intoxicants, how do you then tell a mind fried on booze, bennies and benefits that these miracles of modern chemistry are great up to the limits of the ski zone, but fatal one toke over the line?

I would like to say we should just let them kill themselves if that is what they choose to do (and make no mistake, that is in fact THEIR choice for whatever reason), but how would you (or I) feel if it was OUR kid sticking that needle into their arm?

Wish I had an answer instead of just another frustrated question.

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On 2016-09-20 at 3:39 PM, BC_chick said:

We allow people to smoke, have you seen what that does to the body??? Who are you to dictate where we draw the line?

Drugs are not going anywhere. We need to work on harm-reduction.

When it comes to Fentanyl, the only harm reduction we have is everyone carrying a Noloxone kit and stocking free injection sites with them. Basically, all we are doing right now is preserving the dealer's clientele for them.

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8 hours ago, cannuck said:

Personally, I am very comfortable when I get off of the plane in Riyadh and I see the sign warning the penalty for dealing drugs is death.   I would love to see that here, but we are such a spineless society, we have no backbone to do what is right.

Sounds like a right-wing moral-authoritarians paradise alright. So why do you get back on the plane home?

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On 9/20/2016 at 3:39 PM, BC_chick said:

We allow people to smoke, have you seen what that does to the body??? Who are you to dictate where we draw the line?

Drugs are not going anywhere. We need to work on harm-reduction.

And harm-reduction is exactly the strategy that has been responsible for causing tobacco use to fall, precipitously. And all without arresting, imprisoning or executing a single user or dealer. 

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8 hours ago, cannuck said:

With a government that is going headlong into legalizing yet another gateway drug (alcohol being the first)...

This can't stand unchallenged. If there is any veracity to gateway theories surrounding substance use there can be little doubt tobacco is the true gateway and not just a gateway to other drugs but illicit and pleasurably risky behaviour in general.  In addition to nicotine, one of the most poisonous and addictive chemicals known to man, that first illicit cigarette also causes a rush of biochemicals from our brains - endorphins, aka opioids by the way - pleasure inducing chemicals that often just as powerfully alter forever the young growing mind in that brain.

I think its the illicitness of smoking that really hooks 'em young myself.  

Edited by eyeball
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Eyeball:  I have to agree, I should have listed the gateways in order as nicotine, alcohol and THC.   You are absolutely correct in that it is acceptance of one little step that takes a user and society a little further over the edge, then another, and finally too far down the slippery slope to climb back up.   I think we are there now.

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I think that slippery slope of altering ones mind probably starts with little kids spinning around to make themselves feel dizzy - before you know it they're into harder stuff like the choking game.      

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On 2016-09-17 at 9:07 PM, dialamah said:

In BC this year from January to July, there were 433 drug overdoses, up from 249 in 2015 so I'm pretty sure addicts already have the message "This crap will kill you". "Darwinian selection' would not be your go-to solution if a family member of yours were an addict, but perhaps this comment wasn't intended to be taken seriously.

I agree that dealing with addiction should be a priority, and that an effective means to get people into treatment would be to have affordable treatment places available. Short of getting on Intervention Canada, an average family isn't going to be able to afford 10's of thousands of dollars for treatment. Figuring out why people get addicted in the first place would probably be a step in the right direction.

Figuring out why people get addicted is going to do what?  They get addicted because somewhere along the line they decided to try hard drugs.  It doesn't take much to become hooked.

A person has to want to get treated and get off it.  Otherwise how can they be helped? 

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Figuring out why people get addicted is going to do what? 

Could it be much clearer? If you can figure out why something happens you have information that can allow you to take steps to prevent it happening. 

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2 hours ago, Omni said:

If you can figure out why something happens you have information that can allow you to take steps to prevent it happening. 

Ah, but there is a rub to this - if you really don't want to figure it out and the desire for information is insincere then you'll just continue to stumble and fall no matter what steps you take.

Look at how the collection of data surrounding climate change is being defunded in places for example.

Edited by eyeball

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2 hours ago, Omni said:

Could it be much clearer? If you can figure out why something happens you have information that can allow you to take steps to prevent it happening. 

I don't think there is a lack of knowing why or how people become addicted.  That has been going on probably for thousands of years.

The problem is convincing them to want to quit.  And to prevent addiction, get people to not hang around with addicts or places where it is used.

There is a school of thought that thinks marijuana is a gateway drug too.  Some people who sell marijuana or use it may have other drugs and might be offering them to try out.

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2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't think there is a lack of knowing why or how people become addicted.  That has been going on probably for thousands of years.

The problem is convincing them to want to quit.  And to prevent addiction, get people to not hang around with addicts or places where it is used.

There is a school of thought that thinks marijuana is a gateway drug too.  Some people who sell marijuana or use it may have other drugs and might be offering them to try out.

Sounds like you want to stop people from going to bars. That ain't going to work. I would like to hear your idea of how people become addicted.

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10 hours ago, blackbird said:

There is a school of thought that thinks marijuana is a gateway drug too.  Some people who sell marijuana or use it may have other drugs and might be offering them to try out.

Did you just recently wake up from a time capsule or something?  

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8 hours ago, Omni said:

Sounds like you want to stop people from going to bars. That ain't going to work. I would like to hear your idea of how people become addicted.

No you don't want to hear.   I just answered your question.  People get addicted by hanging around with and living in a culture of other people who do drugs or sell drugs.  Hard drugs is extremely addictive.  Once a person tries one of them, they want more and can't live without it. 

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6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Did you just recently wake up from a time capsule or something?  

I just explained to you how people get addicted.  Why do you keep making silly comments?  It is known how people become addicted.  People make there own choices.  You can't tie them up or put them in a cell so they won't take drugs.  How old are you?

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We don't need to make personal comments on here.

 

Addition is one of those topics that people relate to personally, and therefore think that their experiences qualify as knowledge on the broader topic.  This is for people on ALL SIDES of the discussion.

 

Try providing cites, people, to back up your assertions about addiction, or your criticisms of others' ideas.

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On 2017-04-23 at 5:50 PM, cannuck said:

That is a very good analogy.  Problem is: what to DO about it.

Personally, I am very comfortable when I get off of the plane in Riyadh and I see the sign warning the penalty for dealing drugs is death.   I would love to see that here, but we are such a spineless society, we have no backbone to do what is right.

 

That's the Iranian approach as well - for poor people, anyway - and it has been a spectacular failure. 

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