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How Christians reconcile supporting the devil

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8 minutes ago, betsy said:

resorting to the usual personal attack - as expected from a lib?  Being silly?   

 

You can't refute my arguments.....that's why.  :)

My great-grandfather was the last Liberal in our family, but he got over it.    I never make personal attacks - how could I when all I see is your slogans?  On what thread did you make an argument?   I'll have a look.

Edited by Penderyn

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2 minutes ago, Penderyn said:

My great-grandfather was the last Liberal in our family, but he got over it.    I never make personal attacks - how could I when all I see is your slogans?  On what thread did you make an argument?   I'll have a look.

Bye.....

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For a Christian, to have supported Trump instead of Clinton, is not based on shallow thinking, you know.  It's not just looking at the policies on an individual basis - there's looking at the whole picture, too.

 

There are those who'd waged  war on God.  You can't even offer someone any prayers without being attacked! 

 

Quote

Kevin Smith forced to defend Chris Pratt after actor offered prayers for recovery

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/01/kevin-smith-forced-to-defend-chris-pratt-after-actor-offered-prayers-for-recovery.html

 

Who do you think are the enablers?

 

 

Quote

 

Obama only mentions Christians to lecture them, rather than defend them from persecution.

What do you call it when 12 men are drowned at sea for praying to Jesus?

Answer: Religious persecution.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/04/21/christians-religious-persecution-migrant-ship-italy-column/26083829/

 

 

Quote

Self-satisfied authoritarian response to religious people exposes secular sacred cows.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/04/28/hillary-cling-religion-god-policy-column/26462609/

 

Just imagine how worse the clime would be had Hillary won instead.

So......who's really supporting the devil?

Edited by betsy

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Satan is deceiving.  He tends to make what's offensive to God seems "righteous."  He'll try to convince us, and justify that murdering an unborn is not murder since an unborn isn't a human, yet.    And Satan will remind us, love is for everyone ....after all, didn't Jesus Christ teach all about love?   Who else to love above all but your own self?  Satan would strongly argue, if God resides within you, and you're supposed to love God above all else - shouldn't that mean, you have to put yourself above all else?

He sows confusion!   The ones who run on the policies that are blatantly anti- God, and goes against the teachings of Christ....... actually, work for the devil.

 

Remember this verse?

 

Ephesians 6:11

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

 

This isn't limited only to that US presidential election, you know.  It's universal.  It's the same thing even in Canada.  Of course, we can't expect perfection from candidates.....after all, who's without sin? 

  Christian Canadians must deal with this very same  thing in choosing which ones they'd want to put in power.

Edited by betsy

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On 4/7/2018 at 8:48 PM, bcsapper said:

Well, at least there's no Hell.  The Pope let it slip recently.

Hey.....I beg to differ....Just recently while i was in a drug induced nightmare(similar to the ones the Christians get while reading the bible) I was given a tour of hell. Upon arriving I was met by the devil and was ask if i had any questions.....As i looked around i noticed 10's of thousands of clocks and asked the devil what was their purpose, to which he replied....there is a clock for every person on earth that gives their time of death and when they tell a lie the hands of their clock revolve once  bringing them closer to their demise.As i looked around i see a clock above the devils desk with its hands revolving at a tremendous rate and ask.....devil what is up with that clock, the devil replies...that is Donald Trumps clock I use it as a fan.

Edited by Kerfuffle

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5 hours ago, betsy said:

Let he without his own Pinocchio cast the first stone.

She said while casting it.

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On 5/20/2018 at 12:27 PM, eyeball said:

She said while casting it.

That's okay.  Trudeau, (not Trump),  is our nation's leader - he has to answer to Canadians.   That's our civic duty.

Edited by betsy

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On 10/16/2016 at 10:21 AM, Argus said:

Donald Trump is about as far from being a Christian, about as far from a man who upholds Christian values and virtues as it's possible to find in a western country. I could easily make the case that Hugh Hefner, the founder of Playboy, was a far better representative of Christian virtues, through his long years of dedicated support for the downtrodden, his campaigning for womens rights and the rights of minorities and those improperly convicted in jails. 

Purely on his own self-admission, and on his own representation, without taking into account what others say, Trump is a hedonist of the first order, a selfish, wretched, covetous adulterer and sinner who has never shown any interest in helping others, but only in satisfying his own lust and narcissistic desire for fame and adulation. By all accounts, and by simple observation, a cruel and intolerant man with a mean streak a mile wide, it seems impossible that anyone who actually believes in Christian ideals would be anything but repulsed by Donald Trump. Yet any number of prominent political Christian leaders have endorsed him.

This despite the fairly obvious fact he has spent as little time in church as possible, has never read the bible, nor understands it (nor cares about it), and has, up until his run for president, taken positions entirely at odds with the social values Christians believe in, including a long history of supporting abortion.

Principled Christians, of course, do not support Trump. Christianity Today, the magazine founded by Billy Graham, in an editorial last week said “Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us.”

The editorial criticized the Republican nominee in biblical terms. Quoting a list of sins that St. Paul condemns — “sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry” — Crouch wrote, “this is an incredibly apt summary of Trump’s life to date.”

The fact so many self-described Christians continue to endorse Trump seems, to me, to lay bare their hypocrisy, and to raise the question of what kind of commitment their religion has when it can be ignored for perceived political gain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/10/11/christianity-today-blasts-trump-questions-support-for-someone-who-violates-all-that-is-sacred-to-us/

 

If you read the Bible - especially the Old Testament - you'd see that in a lot of cases, God did not choose saints for leaders.  Look at King David and Solomon.   I just finished reading about Samson - another judge with a flawed character.

 

Here is another reason why a lot of evangelical Christians continue to support Trump.   He is regarded as the MODERN-DAY CYRUS.


 

Quote

 

Evangelical thinker Lance Wallnau then gives Mitchell his take: Trump is a “modern-day Cyrus,” an ancient Persian king chosen by God to “navigate in chaos.”

 

Many evangelical speakers and media outlets compare Trump to Cyrus, a historical Persian king who, in the sixth century BCE, conquered Babylon and ended the Babylonian captivity, a period during which Israelites had been forcibly resettled in exile. This allowed Jews to return to the area now known as Israel and build a temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus is referenced most prominently in the Old Testament book of Isaiah, in which he appears as a figure of deliverance.

That comparison has become more and more explicit in the wake of Trump’s presidency. Last week, an Israeli organization, the Mikdash Educational Center, minted a commemorative “Temple Coin” depicting Trump and Cyrus side by side, in honor of Trump’s decision to move the American embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. It was among the most brazen, public links between Trump and Cyrus; one that takes the years of subtext running through outlets like Christian Broadcasting Network and, quite literally, sealed the comparison.

 

Monday, however, an even higher-profile figure linked Trump and Cyrus. During his visit to Washington, DC, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu heavily implied Trump was Cyrus’s spiritual heir. Thanking Trump for moving the American embassy to Jerusalem, Netanyahu said, “We remember the proclamation of the great King Cyrus the Great — Persian King. Twenty-five hundred years ago, he proclaimed that the Jewish exiles in Babylon can come back and rebuild our temple in Jerusalem...And we remember how a few weeks ago, President Donald J. Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Mr. President, this will be remembered by our people throughout the ages.”

 

While Cyrus is not Jewish and does not worship the God of Israel, he is nevertheless portrayed in Isaiah as an instrument of God — an unwitting conduit through which God effects his divine plan for history. Cyrus is, therefore, the archetype of the unlikely “vessel”: someone God has chosen for an important historical purpose, despite not looking like — or having the religious character of — an obvious man of God.

 

 

 

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/3/5/16796892/trump-cyrus-christian-right-bible-cbn-evangelical-propaganda

 

Here is the verse about Cyrus:

 

Isaiah 45

45 “This is what the Lord says to his anointed,
    to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him
    and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him
    so that gates will not be shut:
I will go before you

    and will level the mountains[a];
I will break down gates of bronze
    and cut through bars of iron.
I will give you hidden treasures,
    riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the Lord,
    the God of Israel, who summons you by name.
For the sake of Jacob my servant,
    of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
    and bestow on you a title of honor,
    though you do not acknowledge me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
    apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
    though you have not acknowledged me,
so that from the rising of the sun
    to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
    I am the Lord, and there is no other.

 

Isaiah 45.    Coincidentally, isn't Trump the 45th President?

 

Edited by betsy

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On 8/28/2018 at 4:37 AM, betsy said:

If you read the Bible - especially the Old Testament -

The story of Jesus Christ is the New Testament. The Old Testament pre-dates Christ's appearance. It is the New Testament Christians should take guidance from.

On 8/28/2018 at 4:37 AM, betsy said:

Here is another reason why a lot of evangelical Christians continue to support Trump.   He is regarded as the MODERN-DAY CYRUS.

The person you quote here is not a Christian, he is a snake oil salesman.

.

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16 minutes ago, Argus said:

The story of Jesus Christ is the New Testament.

Because the New Testament is about the Messiah who'd finally come - as was prophesied throughout the Old Testament!

The Old Testament gave us the history fromthe very beginning, that we may understand why mankind was in need of a Messiah! 

The Old Testament is actually about the promise of the coming Messiah.   The New Testament is the fulfillment of that promise. 

 

 

Quote

The Old Testament pre-dates Christ's appearance. It is the New Testament Christians should take guidance from.

 

Jesus takes from the Old Testament!!!  He quoted from it in His teachings! 

Except for a few things that had become obsolete (due to the coming of the Messiah) - like, sacrificing animals for the atonement of sins - what Jesus did was explain or expand on the Old Testament! 

As an example:  how he explained more about adultery!  Who would've thought that just by coveting a woman in your mind, is adultery!

 

 

Quote

The person you quote here is not a Christian, he is a snake oil salesman.

That's just your own opinion.....which means diddly squat!  

What do you understand about the Bible?   By the looks of it - based on your own responses - hardly anything!

Edited by betsy

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On 10/6/2018 at 8:17 PM, betsy said:

Jesus takes from the Old Testament!!!  He quoted from it in His teachings! 

Yes, but Jesus' main message was to love one another, to help one another, that money was unimportant, that those who seek to accumulate wealth would be barred from heaven. All of this is directly opposed to all of your political beliefs, especially with regard to the US. Your love of Donald Trump is more important to you than your love of Jesus Christ.

On 10/6/2018 at 8:17 PM, betsy said:

That's just your own opinion.....which means diddly squat!  

Not just my opinion.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2017/05/02/false-teacher-of-the-day-4-lance-wallnau/

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"Why do people think Trump supporters are stupid?"

I saw this posted on social media, but I think it about sums it up.

Quote

 

The serious answer: Here’s what we really think about Trump supporters - the rich, the poor, the malignant and the innocently well-meaning, the ones who think and the ones who don't...

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine."

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay."

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem."

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you chirped, "He sure knows me."

That when you heard him illustrate his own character by telling that cute story about the elderly guest bleeding on the floor at his country club, the story about how he turned his back and how it was all an imposition on him, you said, "That's cool!"

That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw.

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?"

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense."

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!"

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!"

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!"

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be."

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!"

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!"

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense."

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!"

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids. has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “well, ok then.”

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise.

What you don't get, Trump supporters in 2018, is that succumbing to frustration and thinking of you as stupid may be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.

 

 

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On 10/8/2018 at 11:25 AM, Argus said:

 

Yes, but Jesus' main message was to love one another, to help one another, that money was unimportant, that those who seek to accumulate wealth would be barred from heaven. All of this is directly opposed to all of your political beliefs, especially with regard to the US. Your love of Donald Trump is more important to you than your love of Jesus Christ.

Not just my opinion.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2017/05/02/false-teacher-of-the-day-4-lance-wallnau/

Lol.   The Democrats fit the bill of all those you enumerated.  And, more!   Review our old exchanges - you're simply rehashing what's already been explained to you.  Boy, just by abortion alone - which is murder - is a deal-breaker!   And then, there's also the matter of Israel!

Why do you think the Dems and their supporters are so set against Trump's appointee to the SCJ?   Because they fear for RvW.

 

Jesus also said - He didn't come in peace!

 

Matthew 10

Christ Brings Division

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

35 For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’;

36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

 

How coincidental is that?

 

I haven't spoken to my family since they elected Trump as President one year ago – I'm not ready to forgive and forget

From the Muslim ban to his attacks on the press, to openly threatening war on Twitter, Trump has exceeded my worst expectations

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-us-election-win-one-year-white-nationalists-nazis-racism-torn-apart-a8043451.html

 

Trump election: Mother and daughter divided

https://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/38005993/trump-election-mother-and-daughter-divided

 

Families divided in the Trump era: 'I didn't talk to my parents for weeks'

The election has been over for months, but the rancor it spawned among families, friends and couples is not fading. 
 
 
Trump may be to you, a non-Christian, and in your opinion, he is corrupt........
 
...........but like I've said before, God will use anyone, including a non-believer (like King Cyrus), to fulfill His agenda.
 
What's the agenda of God?   I don't know.
Edited by betsy

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1 hour ago, betsy said:

Lol.   The Democrats fit the bill of all those you enumerated.  And, more!   Review our old exchanges - you're simply rehashing what's already been explained to you.  Boy, just by abortion alone - which is murder - is a deal-breaker!   And then, there's also the matter of Israel!

Why do you think the Dems and their supporters are so set against Trump's appointee to the SCJ?   Because they fear for RvW.

And that's all it ever boils down to for you. You're one of those Christians people who tears out fistfuls of the bible because she doesn't consider them important.

"Thou shalt not lie." Riiip!
"Though should not commit adultery." RIIIIP!
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." RIIP!
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife." RIIIIP!
" It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Riiip! Riiip! Riiip! (it was repeated three times).
"Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind." RIIIP!
"If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them." RIIIIIP!

I think you only have one page in your bible, Betsy. You've cast aside all the others. Your one page only says "Thou shalt have no abortions!" and "though should not be a fag!"
And that's not Christianity.

Edited by Argus

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20 minutes ago, Argus said:

And that's all it ever boils down to for you. You're one of those Christians people who tears out fistfuls of the bible because she doesn't consider them important.

"Thou shalt not lie." Riiip!
"Though should not commit adultery." RIIIIP!
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." RIIP!
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife." RIIIIP!
" It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Riiip! Riiip! Riiip! (it was repeated three times).
"Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind." RIIIP!
"If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them." RIIIIIP!

I think you only have one page in your bible, Betsy. You've cast aside all the others. Your one page only says "Thou shalt have no abortions!" and "though should not be a fag!"
And that's not Christianity.

EHHHH?

You too, Argus?  Unhinged?  :lol:  Read again.  You seem over-emotional about this that's why you missed these parts.  Here, let me make it easier for you to see.

 

The Democrats fit the bill of all those you enumerated.  And, more!   Review our old exchanges - you're simply rehashing what's already been explained to you.

 

 

 

 

  Boy, just by abortion alone - which is murder - is a deal-breaker!  

 

 

And then, there's also the matter of Israel!

 

So, I don't know why you say it's all abortion for me!     Go back and review my old posts.

Edited by betsy
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On 10/11/2018 at 5:40 PM, betsy said:

EHHHH?

You too, Argus?  Unhinged?  :lol:  Read again.  You seem over-emotional about this that's why you missed these parts.

I'm not being emotional at all. At worst I'm a bit indignant, as a Christian, that you pretend to be one while clearly you are not.

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