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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Hi Betsy, the discussion on the threads seems to be similar.

In what way?  I don't see it.  One thing is obvious though......

 

This thread is actually more directed towards posters who are being labelled  as "haters of all Muslims."  It is aimed at shaming "anti-Islam" posters from speaking their minds.    The author of this poster has an agenda in mind, and it's not aimed towards discussion - she practically said it herself. 

 

Tampering with Kimmy's post (which has been in existence for quite a long time now), is not only unfair.  It will show the height of bias......just so to be politically correct.  That kind of attitude has no place in a forum, unless what we have is a pseudo-forum - something that's simply masquerading as a forum?

 

Just because a Muslim complains about the discussion, is not a valid reason to tamper with free speech.  Anyone who doesn't like the content of a thread ought to be told to take a hike!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Maybe not "many", but certainly a few who would support the actual murdering of Muslims just for being Muslim.

 

Actually none.  Ridiculous comment.  I'm surprised at you.

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5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Actually none.  Ridiculous comment.  I'm surprised at you.

Are you kidding me?   Haven't you read the anti-Muslim posters on here?   Do you really think they'd object if the government decided to stop letting Muslims into Canada, or if they deported all Muslims?  Do you think they'd have a problem with our government waging war on Muslims in Muslim countries?   What does recent history tell you about that very thing?    Maybe they wouldn't pull the trigger themselves, but they're only too willing to hold the gun.

Argus just posted "Stop showing news stories about Syria; let them slaughter each other".    Aside from the inhumanity of that statement, it's not just *them* slaughtering each other, we're also slaughtering them with our military assistance and weapons deployment.   These people have convinced themselves that *all* Muslims are inhuman, ignorant, racist and 'historical enemies of the West', so fuck them if they're being bombed and massacred.    

 

 

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8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Are you kidding me?   Haven't you read the anti-Muslim posters on here?   Do you really think they'd object if the government decided to stop letting Muslims into Canada, or if they deported all Muslims?  Do you think they'd have a problem with our government waging war on Muslims in Muslim countries?   What does recent history tell you about that very thing?    Maybe they wouldn't pull the trigger themselves, but they're only too willing to hold the gun.

Argus just posted "Stop showing news stories about Syria; let them slaughter each other".    Aside from the inhumanity of that statement, it's not just *them* slaughtering each other, we're also slaughtering them with our military assistance and weapons deployment.   These people have convinced themselves that *all* Muslims are inhuman, ignorant, racist and 'historical enemies of the West', so fuck them if they're being bombed and massacred.    

 

 

I'm not kidding you.  Utterly ridiculous.

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41 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Are you kidding me?   Haven't you read the anti-Muslim posters on here?   Do you really think they'd object if the government decided to stop letting Muslims into Canada, or if they deported all Muslims?  Do you think they'd have a problem with our government waging war on Muslims in Muslim countries?   What does recent history tell you about that very thing?    Maybe they wouldn't pull the trigger themselves, but they're only too willing to hold a gun.  

 

 

Are you seriously equating wanting our immigration policies to address the number of people we take in from a violent religion, to wanting to actually KILL those people?

Seriously?

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43 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Are you seriously equating wanting our immigration policies to address the number of people we take in from a violent religion, to wanting to actually KILL those people?

Seriously?

Nope, I'm saying that some people's rhetoric make it clear that killing Muslims for being Muslims is just fine with them.

Did you know that about 350 Western civilians worldwide were killed by Islamic extremism from 2014-2016?

Did you know that as many as 1000 Muslim civilians (aka non-combatants) have been killed in Syria alone since 2014?

Bring up the civilian casualties attributable to Western forces, and these people don't care at all.   That's fine, these casualties are the price of war.  Bring up the fact that the vast majority of victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslims, they don't care about that.  As far as they are concered, Muslims don't matter when it comes dying.

But if a terrorist attack claims a non-Muslim victim?  OMG - that is outrageous, barbarous, and those Muslims must be punished!   And not just the guilty ones; all of them!

So yeah, these people support the killing of Muslims for being Muslims.   As I said prior - they may not pull the trigger, but they're happy to hold the gun.

https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_AmericanTerrorismDeaths_FactSheet_Oct2015.pdf

http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/26/syria-coalition-airstrikes-civilian-death-toll-amnesty-international

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/29/us-airstrikes-isis-death-toll

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/20/us-airstrike-allegedly-kills-56-civilians-in-northern-syria

http://inthesetimes.com/article/19501/the-u.s.-recently-apologized-for-killing-syrian-soldiers.-why-wont-it-do-th

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/09/us-airstrikes-civilian-deaths-iraq-syria

 

Edited by dialamah
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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I'm not kidding you.  Utterly ridiculous.

He does have a point. We have seen the rise in the rate of hate crimes against moslems in UK since Brexit and also elsewhere. There are those "few" that will kill any moslems non-discriminately....

Calling it ridiculous won't let it go away!

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Are you kidding me?   Haven't you read the anti-Muslim posters on here?   Do you really think they'd object if the government decided to stop letting Muslims into Canada, or if they deported all Muslims?  Do you think they'd have a problem with our government waging war on Muslims in Muslim countries?   What does recent history tell you about that very thing?    Maybe they wouldn't pull the trigger themselves, but they're only too willing to hold the gun.

Argus just posted "Stop showing news stories about Syria; let them slaughter each other".    Aside from the inhumanity of that statement, it's not just *them* slaughtering each other, we're also slaughtering them with our military assistance and weapons deployment.   These people have convinced themselves that *all* Muslims are inhuman, ignorant, racist and 'historical enemies of the West', so fuck them if they're being bombed and massacred.    

 

 

 

Well, they are slaughtering each other!  Who's killing Syrians?    When outsiders get involved in their wars - who gets blamed in the end for interfering? 

 

So, why shouldn't we just walk away from it?  Trump has a practical solution.  Create and fund safe zones in Syria! 

 

Obviously, we can't take in every civilians from all warring nations (especially when their ways are in contrast with ours)  - why should we be concerned of only Syria? Syrians are not the only ones suffering!  What about nations like Africa?

 

It's like being in a lifeboat at sea.  You can only take in so many before your own boat starts to sink.  You can try to help by giving out any spare life jackets to those in the water!   

 

A government's obligation is to its own citizens........ first, and foremost! 

Edited by betsy

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1 hour ago, kactus said:

He does have a point. We have seen the rise in the rate of hate crimes against moslems in UK since Brexit and also elsewhere. There are those "few" that will kill any moslems non-discriminately....

Calling it ridiculous won't let it go away!

 

Quote

 I am sure even in this forum, there are many posters would murder all Muslims if he/she would have such an oppurtunity. Stop playing the innocent kitten.

Quote

Maybe not "many", but certainly a few who would support the actual murdering of Muslims just for being Muslim.

I'm fairly sure Dialamah is a female.  Not relevant to the discussion, but you said "he".

The two quotes there are ridiculous.  Nothing to do with it going anywhere.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

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54 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Really?  And the Islam thread isn't? 

No.  It wasn't started as a direct response to a thread posting genuine and deserved criticism, using a random, birdshot approach without any basis in fact to try and blame Christians and Atheists for similar acts.  This thread was.  It's a knee jerk "Oh really? Well so are you! So ner ner!" type of response.

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Just now, bcsapper said:

No.  It wasn't started as a direct response to a thread posting genuine and deserved criticism, using a random, birdshot approach without any basis in fact to try and blame Christians and Atheists for similar acts.  This thread was.  It's a knee jerk "Oh really? Well so are you! So ner ner!" type of response.

That thread was started because a Muslim female felt attacked. Good for her. 

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11 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

That thread was started because a Muslim female felt attacked. Good for her. 

My description stands.  Motives are not my concern.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

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Altai was justified in retaliating against these anti Muslim threads. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what you believe and I would not want her concerns to be drowned out by anti-Muslim white Canadian men and women who are stronger in number than she is. 

 

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3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

My description stands.  Motives are not my concern.

Motives should be your concern. Everyone has a motive. Actions by every poster here is motivated

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6 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Altai was justified in retaliating against these anti Muslim threads. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what you believe and I would not want her concerns to be drowned out by anti-Muslim white Canadian men and women who are stronger in number than she is. 

 

First of all it takes no courage whatsoever.  Not on here.  I'll argue all day without considering myself a hero.

Secondly, what does she believe that she stood up for?  That the posts were wrong?  I don't think that is the case.  What she would have us believe (whether or not she believes it herself I don't know) is that Christians and Atheists are as bad as Muslims when it comes to hurting people for reasons based on their beliefs.  Which is nonsense.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

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4 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Motives should be your concern. Everyone has a motive. Actions by every poster here is motivated

Another posters motives are their own.  I try and argue facts or opinions.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

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1 hour ago, WestCoastRunner said:

That thread was started because a Muslim female felt attacked. Good for her. 

You mean, she doesn't approve of the discussion going on in the Islam thread?  How dare we discuss Islam the way we do?   So, it's okay for her to trash the board, and insult all the posters she taunts and labels "Muslim haters?"

 

This is a forum!  Sensitive people shouldn't come to forums if they feel "attacked" by whatever it is they imagine  themselves being attacked with!  Grow up!

 

We live in a free society!  We have our right to express our opinion, especially so when what we're discussing in Islam thread is very much so relevant to what's happening around the world!  

  Correct me if I'm wrong, as far as I know.....Maple Leaf Forum is Canadian!  The same rules we observe on this site should also apply to anyone posting from other countries!

 

AND.......FYI, we don't go by the laws of Turkey!

 

 

Edited by betsy

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1 hour ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Motives should be your concern. Everyone has a motive. Actions by every poster here is motivated

 

Well, her motive for creating this thread goes against the rule of this site. 

 

She was open and forthright with her motive, which makes it offensive because of what she's sought to do.  It is deliberate. 

I'd seen threads far less offensive than this which were locked up pronto!  One, not even offensive at all,  actually got deleted!

Edited by betsy

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As I said - this thread and the other one cover the same territory, ie. comparing religions, quoting scripture (at length) and trying to tie the actions of individuals to a larger group.

Now that I have answered that - any other thoughts on merging ?

 

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

First of all it takes no courage whatsoever.  Not on here.  I'll argue all day without considering myself a hero.

Secondly, what does she believe that she stood up for?  That the posts were wrong?  I don't think that is the case.  What she would have us believe (whether or not she believes it herself I don't know) is that Christians and Atheists are as bad as Muslims when it comes to hurting people for reasons based on their beliefs.  Which is nonsense.

 

She'd said she doesn't care whether they're Christians or Atheists or whatever.  So....what we've got here is a senseless thread, really.

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7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

As I said - this thread and the other one cover the same territory, ie. comparing religions, quoting scripture (at length) and trying to tie the actions of individuals to a larger group.

Now that I have answered that - any other thoughts on merging ?

 

 

Well, no.  It doesn't cover the same territory - unless we become Cinderella's ugly sisters....... and try our darndest  to make the shoe fit.

 

There is no comparison of religion!  Attempt was made  somewhere to drag Christianity for comparison (the usual cliche), but it was soundly rebutted.  The difference was pointed out.   That was the part where scriptures' verses were given, only to serve as supporting evidence, to prove a point!

 

If the author doesn't want to discuss....what's the point of this topic?

Edited by betsy

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26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Whether or not it was rebutted, that is what I am saying - the comparison of religions is what is in both threads.

 

That was the only time there was a comparison of religion.  It already got nipped at the bud!

 

But you're the moderator.  I already gave my views why it shouldn't be merged with kimmy's.

If you're already set on merging this thread that was obviously created to troll..... and lumping Kimmy's thread along with it, that's up to you. 

Edited by betsy

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8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I just went through the Islam thread again.  Lots of discussion of Christianity in there.  

 

Well, that's in that thread!  There is a rational discussion going on in that thread - that's the big difference. 

Why would you want to mess up Kimmy's thread by merging it with a thread that was admittedly created to troll?

 

I'd suggest to let this one stand alone. Leave it for what it is.

 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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