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Pride Toronto wimps out

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33 minutes ago, hernanday said:

Those statistics are in no way accurate, there is not a part of Jane and Finch with just 6% original population, and especially not back then.  It still doesn't change the fact that 97% of the crime and convicted criminals in the country come from whites and native indians.  Further no racial statistics were even authorized to have been recorded by tpd and a staff inspector doesn't have that authority.  Most likely Fantino just invented those numbers.  I mean purse snatching, that rarely occurs in Toronto on a whole, definitely not in Jane-Finch.  And the vast majority of drug offenses are done by whites even in Jane Finch because whites are the main  drug users.  However you did convenienly forget the star stats on the police stopping and carding original people disproportionately, so I guess if all Fantino does is stop original people, he can only find original people committing crimes.  I mean if he only stopped white people, he couldn't find a non-white criminal either.

 

Has nothing to do with hating cops, but cops have a huge history of racial and gender based discrimination, they really shouldn't be at the gay parade because they were the ones who persecuted gays traditionally and original people, especially if they were gay it was a double persecution.

So anything you disagree with is inaccurate, but you have stats you cant prove, the most wanted list is also inaccurate despite the obvious, and you think equating police to Bernardo is a completely ok thing to do, sure, all reasonable positions...  Police arent perfect, but if you think most of them are out looking for a reason to kill a minority you're too extreme to be having this conversation with,  I might as well be telling a Trump voter that the Mexicans aren't stealing all the jobs.

Im not saying there aren't racist cops, but the idea, that in Toronto of all places, the police are simply some form of collective serial killer, is ludicrous, show us the stats, do a comparison between numbers of actual crimes by race and the number of unjustified homicides by police so we can do a comparison, do the police regularly engage in violent conflicts with some races in numbers disproportionate from that particular races crime rate relative to the rest of the population? We don't know, but we are supposed to take the word of extremists and ban police from a community event when the vast majority of them are doing nothing wrong and when the death of anyone by the hands of police is very rare?  As of 2015, 51 deaths by police since 1990 in Toronto, in a city of what 5 million?  https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/08/16/how-many-black-men-have-been-killed-by-toronto-police-we-cant-know.html  Now how many of those were unjustified, what percentage of people killed of each race were unjustified, is there no actual difference in the crime rates between certain communities, is there no underlying reason for that, and do the police have no good reason for reacting differently with different groups, etc. and many others im sure. Parse all of that down and figure out exactly how many of those 51 deaths were simply a racist cop killing a minority for no reason at all.  Good luck.

The real problem is we cant talk about the facts too much because eventually someone will call someone a racist, and those people doing the calling are willing to hold others hostage over it.  Which is what happened in this case.

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29 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Is that because First Nations was taken?

I'm as original as everyone else.  I just moved further from the Sun.

I don't think it works that way, but nice joke.

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3 minutes ago, hernanday said:

I don't think it works that way, but nice joke.

That's exactly how it works.  We all have the same ancestors.  We just live in different areas.  We are all exactly equal in terms of our originality.

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22 minutes ago, poochy said:

So anything you disagree with is inaccurate, but you have stats you cant prove, the most wanted list is also inaccurate despite the obvious, and you think equating police to Bernardo is a completely ok thing to do, sure, all reasonable positions...  Police arent perfect, but if you think most of them are out looking for a reason to kill a minority you're too extreme to be having this conversation with,  I might as well be telling a Trump voter that the Mexicans aren't stealing all the jobs.

You don't have stats, you have someone just making things up on the spot and you are quoting it claiming it is a stat.  However the data shows 97% of crime in the nation is from white and native indians.  Most police have wet dreams about killing, it is why they sign up for the job, who else would sign up for such a crummy job.  Just like pedophiles are attracted to jobs around children, sociopathic murderers and abusers are attracted to jobs where you can carry a gun and kill anyone who makes you feel threatened with out much review.  You are like those people in the 70s and 80s who use to cover up for pedophile priest, pedophile coaches and pedophile teachers because priest, coaches, camp counselors and teachers  "Don't do that".

 

22 minutes ago, poochy said:

Im not saying there aren't racist cops, but the idea, that in Toronto of all places, the police are simply some form of collective serial killer, is ludicrous, show us the stats, do a comparison between numbers of actual crimes by race and the number of unjustified homicides by police so we can do a comparison, do the police regularly engage in violent conflicts with some races in numbers disproportionate from that particular races crime rate relative to the rest of the population? We don't know, but we are supposed to take the word of extremists and ban police from a community event when the vast majority of them are doing nothing wrong and when the death of anyone by the hands of police is very rare?  As of 2015, 51 deaths by police since 1990 in Toronto, in a city of what 5 million?  https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/08/16/how-many-black-men-have-been-killed-by-toronto-police-we-cant-know.html  Now how many of those were unjustified, what percentage of people killed of each race were unjustified, is there no actual difference in the crime rates between certain communities, is there no underlying reason for that, and do the police have no good reason for reacting differently with different groups, etc. and many others im sure. Parse all of that down and figure out exactly how many of those 51 deaths were simply a racist cop killing a minority for no reason at all.  Good luck.

You are all confused and mixing up fake news and fake  stats left, right and center.  The number of studies showing police misconduct are overwhelming.

 

22 minutes ago, poochy said:

The real problem is we cant talk about the facts too much because eventually someone will call someone a racist, and those people doing the calling are willing to hold others hostage over it.  Which is what happened in this case.

Someone was already cited for racist conduct from the start of this, toronto police.  Toronto police have a history of racist and homophobic behaviour.  We don't have to debate it.  TPD needs to clean up their department.

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2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That's exactly how it works.  We all have the same ancestors.  We just live in different areas.  We are all exactly equal in terms of our originality.

No because original means first, some people came later, we do not all have the same ancestors as non-original people have substantial levels of mutations in their dna which cause them to be different. Further, mutated humans have substantial dna admixture with neanderthals, so no, we do not all have the same ancestors, as original people have no neanderthal dna.  Some of us are original, some of us are mutants, some of us have recessive genes and some of us have progressive genes, but I agree we are all humans and are entitled to human rights.

 

" Everyone living outside of Africa today has a small amount of Neanderthal in them, carried as a living relic of these ancient encounters. A team of scientists comparing the full genomes of the two species concluded that most Europeans and Asians have between 1 to 2 percent Neanderthal DNA."

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

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7 minutes ago, hernanday said:

No because original means first, some people came later, we do not all have the same ancestors as non-original people have substantial levels of mutations in their dna which cause them to be different. Further, mutated humans have substantial dna admixture with neanderthals, so no, we do not all have the same ancestors, as original people have no neanderthal dna.  Some of us are original, some of us are mutants, some of us have recessive genes and some of us have progressive genes, but I agree we are all humans and are entitled to human rights.

 

" Everyone living outside of Africa today has a small amount of Neanderthal in them, carried as a living relic of these ancient encounters. A team of scientists comparing the full genomes of the two species concluded that most Europeans and Asians have between 1 to 2 percent Neanderthal DNA."

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

Nah, I can't see that at all.  I cede no originality to anyone. 

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Just now, hernanday said:

I'm a Yorkshireman.  We've been around forever. 

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4 hours ago, hernanday said:

Just like pedophiles are attracted to jobs around children, sociopathic murderers and abusers are attracted to jobs where you can carry a gun and kill anyone who makes you feel threatened with out much review.

I see... so by your logic the police are murderers and people who work with small children, teachers, early childhood educators, daycare workers, are pedophiles.
Sounds ridiculous... and it is.

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9 hours ago, hernanday said:

And the police were participating in a great deal of that homophobia, the pride parade was started as a reaction to Toronto police homophobia raiding a gay bath house and locking up people just for being gay.  The Toronto police have continued their bigotry and hatred against the original community, so it is no surprise BLM who stands for the aggrieved and unjustly attacked people like Jamma Jamma where the Toronto police lied and beat him up wrote a false report and charged him with assault on an officer and were seeking deportation against him, and then the video came out and showed he never touched the officer but the officer was beating him on the ground for several minutes.  The Toronto police have never been held accountable for that, they lied under oath, they tried to get an innocent man thrown in jail and deported to a country he fled as a refugee, they beat him without just cause and hospitalized him, and then you wonder why some people don't want them at a parade for gay and original gay people?

Complete nonsense. The police are doing their job as demanded by the law, end of story. You perceive that some isolated incidents by bad guys is representative of the big picture, because it gets your attention. It's in the news. Meanwhile you are unaware of, or ignoring, the thousands of helpful positive incidents in which police protect us. Police unfortunately deal with the very lowest scum on earth every day, and it weighs heavy on their outlook. i can totally understand if they feel stressed and feel that there are people around who want to harm them.

In the example you highlighted, the officer was not pardoned and was given a prison sentence. What more do you want?
Officer loses assault appeal, led away in handcuffs

The fellow was beaten up. It's not nice but seems like the sentence given the officer was adequate. Some would say he deserved clemency. Did he have prior offences? Not likely. Any civilian with no priors would be given the same leniency.

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15 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Symbolic for the LGBTQ community.....who are white. For those who are black and LGBTQ, they still have to worry about the police.

I completely understand that black people, native people, and people in general for that matter, feel a lot of mistrust towards the police. I do. I get it.  In my own neighborhood I see how police interact with people who "fit the profile", meaning anybody who doesn't look like the typical middle-class or higher "old stock" Canadian.  I fully appreciate that looking softer than a cream-puff affords me a level of security around police that many don't enjoy. I believe that there are more Kwesi Millingtons and Geoff Mantlers in law enforcement than we ever hear about, and that the police will do anything to protect their own, even if their own commit gross miscarriage of justice.  I've been one of the more vocal critics of police misconduct on the forum here for a long time.

And I still have yet to understand how exclusion and building barriers makes Pride a better event. I thought we were supposed to be building unity and understanding, not division.

 -k

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I don't have any say in the matter... but if you can't create around an event like this, then where does it start?

 

 

Will gay police get to attend?

 -k

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37 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I think it's a lot easier to understand than you make it. They don't feel safe around the police.

There is no difference between someone saying they don't feel safe around police and saying they don't feel safe around black people. Both are bigoted statements that make assumptions about an entire group based on the misbehavior of some members. Gay pride may feel that promoting bigotry is a good thing now. But it seems self defeating.

Edited by TimG

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Well, seems the gay community had no problem with police in the parade and most likely would have been very happy to hear that the police wanted to participate. I mean, how much more of a show of support to your cause do you want? I disagree with the BLM method of threatening to blockade a peaceful parade, as they did last year, when the parade has to get licencing and organize funds to cover all sorts of cost, security etc. to me the right move is to have the cops move in on BLM if they want to put up a blockade. If anybody else did that at gay pride, they'd be billyclubbed. Instead, they conceded and gave those who threatened to disrupt what they wanted.

Seems that civility, decency, fairness and rule of law and order is going out the window and it's happening at a cultural level, on both sides of the political spectrum. But really it's mainly the leftists.

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16 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I believe BLM was clear that they want them to attend as members of the LGBTQ community and not as officers. Signifiers/Symbols point to a signified and the police uniform signifies something very different for people of colour than others right now.

 

Cause apparently BLM represent all non-white people. *sarcasm*

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4 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

 

Cause apparently BLM represent all non-white people. *sarcasm*

Exactly, cybercoma's conclusion is biased and ridiculous because there must be thousands of ordinary black folk who are not afraid of the police, who trust and want the police to help them. Some of them... ARE the police.

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5 hours ago, cybercoma said:

Signifiers/Symbols point to a signified and the police uniform signifies something very different for people of colour than others right now.

A person who looks like that person did something awful to a person who looks like me, so I'm going to fear that person.

 

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23 hours ago, bcsapper said:

We all have the same ancestors.  We just live in different areas.  We are all exactly equal in terms of our originality.

= Communist

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