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Pride Toronto wimps out

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17 hours ago, TimG said:

There is no difference between someone saying they don't feel safe around police and saying they don't feel safe around black people.

I would wager that statistically you are a lot more likely to be violently assaulted by a black civilian than by a cop. And I bet that goes for people of all races, including gay people. If I say I don't feel safe around black people can I keep them out of my store or restaurant?

Edited by Argus

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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Exactly, cybercoma's conclusion is biased and ridiculous because there must be thousands of ordinary black folk who are not afraid of the police, who trust and want the police to help them. Some of them... ARE the police.

In fact, most of the time when police are looking for or arresting a black man (it usually IS a man) it's because some other black people complained he had robbed/raped/beaten/shot them. It's not like they wouldn't rather be doing something else. They're not harrassing black men because they hate black men. Their interaction is directly and entirely related to the level of crime coming from the Black community. Recently in Ottawa there were complaints that police are statistically stopping and questioning black AND middle eastern men more than they ought to. Why would that be?  Did the police suddenly discover they dislike Arabs too? Or could it possibly be related the level of violent criminality originating within those two communities?

Here is the Ottawa police list of the 20 people they  most want to apprehend. Three of them are white. And of those three, two are wanted for breaking and entering, and I suspect they were put on the list simply because someone was worried that there were almost no whites on it.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawas-most-wanted-have-you-seen-these-men

Edited by Argus

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9 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Yes. This is all about individual interactions. There's no such thing as structural inequality and there certainly isn't a role played by the police. I guess the Stanford Prison Experiment was a hoax too, while we're at it.

Sorry, my mistake;

People who look like those people did something awful to people who look like us, so we're going to fear those people.

Edited by bcsapper

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Just now, cybercoma said:

Feel free to bury your head in the sand. Maybe one day you'll come up for air.

Feel free to use a standard generalization instead of an argument.

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14 hours ago, cybercoma said:

Where did I say that? You need to stop making up strawmen to fulfill your ridiculous biases.

Good, so then you agree that indigenous people shouldn't be used as an excuse to exclude cops.

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And now so has the Police Chief…

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/10/toronto-police-will-not-participate-in-pride-parade-this-year-says-chief-mark-saunders.html

Quote

 

Toronto Mayor John Tory says he’s disappointed and frustrated that police won’t be marching in this year’s Pride parade.

“I respect Chief Mark Saunders’ decision to have the Toronto Police Service step back from the Pride Parade this year,” Tory said on Friday.

His statement came hours after Saunders announced that Toronto police won’t take part in this year’s Pride parade after pressure from some members of the LGBTQ communities.

“I am disappointed and frustrated with the current situation,” Tory said in a prepared statement.

 

 

Edited by Boges

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25 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Why does this matter....?

BLM stopped the Pride Parade last year demanding that Police can't participate in the parade in an official capacity going forward. Apparently those tactics have worked. 

One special interest group has told another special interest group how to conduct their business. It's pretty alarming. This also calls into question the public funds Pride receives, should it be revoked of public employees are banned from participating?

Edited by Boges

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

BLM stopped the Pride Parade last year demanding that Police can't participate in the parade in an official capacity going forward. Apparently those tactics have worked. 

One special interest group has told another special interest group how to conduct their business. It's pretty alarming. 

Why is it alarming if one special interest group listens to another special interest group?

Quote

This also calls into question the public funds Pride receives, should it be revoked of public employees are banned from participating?

They should be allowed to select which groups can participate, unless they discriminate against a recognized group.  Cops aren't a recognized group.  

I don't think they should get any public funds, personally....    unless it's for advertising or promotion...  for instance: a float in the parade.  

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It's not listening, it's extortion. They stopped the parade and refused to leave unless cops were banned. 

Apparently there are LGBT cops that are effected by this. 

I'm no fan of cops but this isn't really a good way to effect change. 

Edited by Boges

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14 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

I don't think they should get any public funds, personally....

Pride Toronto has lots of sponsors, public and private, and the parade attracts about a million people who are estimated to spend several hundred million dollars in the city. The public sponsors are:

  • City of Toronto - $160,500
  • Queen’s Park’s - $270,000
  • Ottawa’s - $140,200

Of course there are countless other organizations with their hands in the public pocket:

  • The Canadian Opera Company - $1.5 million
  • The National Ballet $1.25 million
  • Toronto Symphony $1.22 million.
  • Bata Shoe Museum  - $200,000
  • Honda Indy - $270,000
  • The Shaw Festival - $247,500
  • Great Canadian Cheese Festival  - $45,000
  • The Fringe Festival - $90,000
  • Taste of Asia Festival - $67,500
  • Toronto Triathlon Festival - $56,250
  • Digital Dreams Festival - $270,000
  • Salsa on St. Clair Street Festival - $90,000

Why don't we hear the same outrage over all these other ones? This is for you Argus - listen up - I am not supporting the Pride Festival, I am just calling those out who only have time to criticize one thing. If you are going to go out of you way to criticize, then at least look up and fight against them all.

Edited by ?Impact

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30 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Pride Toronto has lots of sponsors, public and private, and the parade attracts about a million people who are estimated to spend several hundred million dollars in the city. The public sponsors are:

  • City of Toronto - $160,500
  • Queen’s Park’s - $270,000
  • Ottawa’s - $140,200

Of course there are countless other organizations with their hands in the public pocket:

  • The Canadian Opera Company - $1.5 million
  • The National Ballet $1.25 million
  • Toronto Symphony $1.22 million.
  • Bata Shoe Museum  - $200,000
  • Honda Indy - $270,000
  • The Shaw Festival - $247,500
  • Great Canadian Cheese Festival  - $45,000
  • The Fringe Festival - $90,000
  • Taste of Asia Festival - $67,500
  • Toronto Triathlon Festival - $56,250
  • Digital Dreams Festival - $270,000
  • Salsa on St. Clair Street Festival - $90,000

Why don't we hear the same outrage over all these other ones? This is for you Argus - listen up - I am not supporting the Pride Festival, I am just calling those out who only have time to criticize one thing. If you are going to go out of you way to criticize, then at least look up and fight against them all.

I haven't heard any outrage over public funding of the Pride parade.

Did the Salsa on St.Clair Street Festival ban cops? 

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On 2017-02-10 at 7:23 PM, ?Impact said:

Why don't we hear the same outrage over all these other ones? This is for you Argus - listen up - I am not supporting the Pride Festival, I am just calling those out who only have time to criticize one thing. If you are going to go out of you way to criticize, then at least look up and fight against them all.

What are you talking about? Have I said a word about government funding for gay festivals? I'm pretty sure I have, at one time or another, spoken against government funding for snooty arts groups which are enjoyed by a very, very small audience.

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I understand black people's fear of cops, I understand BLM's protest.  But it's also a good thing to include cops in these events because it exposes police to the LGBT community, and exposes the LGBT to the police community.  The more they interact and understand each other, the less fear and division they will share between each other.  Cops really need to be exposed to different communities in ways where they aren't just working the beat.  That said, it's mostly only gay cops who would be in the parade anyways, so they're already a part of that community, the homophobic cops would just want to stay home the day of Pride.  Like Rob Ford did.

This is an issue really between Pride & the LGBT community and BLM, I'll let them settle it.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
  • Like 1

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On 2017-02-10 at 4:17 PM, Boges said:

Apparently there are LGBT cops that are effected by this.

So gay cops aren't allowed into the parade?   Are they going to be outed as cops and chased away or something?

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6 hours ago, The_Squid said:

So gay cops aren't allowed into the parade?   Are they going to be outed as cops and chased away or something?

Not in uniform participating in the parade. 

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A parade of that size would need both a permit, and a security plan involving hundred of Toronto police to provide a secure and safe environment.

 

If I was a Toronto taxpayer, I would be very uneasy about providing substantial public funds in support of a group that is so overtly heterophobic , bigoted and  intolerant as the Gay pride organizers.

 

 

Edited by overthere
  • Like 1

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7 hours ago, Boges said:

Not in uniform participating in the parade. 

Then they can go without a uniform.  Do gay postal employees wear their uniforms in the parade?

 

1 hour ago, overthere said:

overtly heterophobic

the police are a heterosexual organization now?

 

Edited by The_Squid

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1 hour ago, overthere said:

A parade of that size would need both a permit, and a security plan involving hundred of Toronto police to provide a secure and safe environment.

 

If I was a Toronto taxpayer, I would be very uneasy about providing substantial public funds in support of a group that is so overtly heterophobic , bigoted and  intolerant as the Gay pride organizers.

The Cops are still going to police that event. They aren't gonna give up the $60/hour they get doing paid duty police work. 

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25 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Then they can go without a uniform.  Do gay postal employees wear their uniforms in the parade?

Sure, it's not illegal for Pride to not welcome any specific group. The Men's Rights people are banned from the parade. 

But should another political group be able to extort this one into doing their political bidding. Seems kind of unseemly. And AGAIN, I'm not fan of cops. 

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On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 1:13 PM, Boges said:

The Cops are still going to police that event. They aren't gonna give up the $60/hour they get doing paid duty police work. 

Is that $60 per hour paid for by the organizers?  if not, why not?

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