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The Canadian dollar

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10 minutes ago, blueblood said:

And has went into the poorhouse as a result of it.  Pallister has a big mountain to climb!  The ndp found out the hard way how much hydro costs.

Hydro didn't have to cost that much money.  We don't even need most of this capacity that we're building.  Hydro was not a mistake, the implementation was.

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15 hours ago, Bonam said:

In 1999, Canada's population was 30.5 million. In 2010, it was 34 million. Therefore, using your numbers, the per capita smoking rate in 1999 was 201 people per 1000 and by 2010 it had dropped to 144 people per 1000, a 28.4% reduction, which is quite significant. I imagine that most CO2 reduction advocates would be pretty happy with a ~28% reduction in 11 years, and most plans I see out there advocate/anticipate a smaller reduction than that. 

Whether that reduction is worth the cost is of course a different question (and one worth debating) but the smoking example clearly illustrates that taxing things can certainly reduce their prevalence. 

The point i was trying to make was the fact that EVEN with the massive amounts of taxes added on to cigs, well over 500 % more than the product cost to make....only 1.2 mil quit out of 6.2 mil smokers....while that is a good number, the remaining 62 % of smokers continue to pay for this luxury item....My intention was not to compare the two items, but rather show that regardless of how much tax you put on a item Canadians will still need or use fossil fuels....

Some one mentioned one can not compare cigs with fossil fuels, they are right you can't because the taxes on cigs just effect that one product, taxes of fossil fuels will effect almost every product out there, from at the pumps, to the food we buy, to the products we use, the services we need, all of it will be taxed, and this tax will be passed on to the consumer....so it is not just another simple tax we pay at the pumps.....but we pay it every where on everything.  like another GST. only disguised nas a carbon tax to make it sound cool...  

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On 1/22/2017 at 7:47 PM, blueblood said:

People buy other things than houses.

As I've said, you don't HAVE to pay for anything from abroad. And all your principle needs - the things people have to spend most of their money on, are produced locally. The only exception would be gas, because that is priced in US$.

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Smoking and the environment are not the topics of this discussion. Take them elsewhere.

The only correlation between the environment and the dollar is the belief higher environmental surtaxes will result in lower economic activity and thus lower the Canadian dollar.

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21 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

                                                                                                                         1999                                                                                        2010

Current Smokers 6,121,992 25 4,910,520 17

 

All this is going to do is drive people to cheaper alt, such as fire wood, which produces more carbon than fossil fuels do.....

 

SO how is all of this going to benefit Canada in today's economy again....

Um, account for population increase much?  

That's why I have focused on percentages.  

 

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17 hours ago, blueblood said:

Adapt our way into the poorhouse.  Not everyone lives in a rainforest climate in a Downtown centre...

If we do not embrace change then the rest of the world will outpace us. 

What do we do when oil demand decreases because of changes to technology (electric vehicles, power walls etc)? 

The rest of the world, especially the sunny parts,  can easily, and cheaply, change over to solar over the next several decades.  

In fact, this is already happening now. 

But no, no jobs to be had in solar/wind technology. 

We're Canada so we can only focus on oil and gas because we can only do one thing at a time. 

One day, when the markets realize that the oil game is up and OPEC can no longer manipulate prices higher, it will hit our dollar.  No backup plan, no development of alternative industries that will pick up the slack.

Then we really will see a low dollar. 

 

Edited by msj

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29 minutes ago, msj said:

If we do not embrace change then the rest of the world will outpace us. 

What do we do when oil demand decreases because of changes to technology (electric vehicles, power walls etc)? 

The rest of the world, especially the sunny parts,  can easily, and cheaply, change over to solar over the next several decades.  

In fact, this is already happening now. 

But no, no jobs to be had in solar/wind technology. 

We're Canada so we can only focus on oil and gas because we can only do one thing at a time. 

One day, when the markets realize that the oil game is up and OPEC can no longer manipulate prices higher, it will hit our dollar.  No backup plan, no development of alternative industries that will pick up the slack.

Then we really will see a low dollar. 

 

Then let the sunny parts have it all. We don't need it. We don't produce enough to worry about. Governments are just using this to raise money. And if you think we will see oil gone, unless you are a teenager, it will never happen in our lifetime. I wish we would stop cutting our own throats just to look good in the world eyes when it is the rest of the world doing the most polluting. God I wish people here would open thier eyes, and quit looking for that pat on the head from the world telling us what good little cub scouts we are.

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Of course oil is going to be around. 

The question is: at what price? 

Given the compounding effect of investments in solar/wind elsewhere I think it is only a matter of time before oil is a sunset industry. 

Thanks to productivity increases (US shale in particular) Alberta should be thankful that the price is under $55.  If it was at $100 then the incentive to switch over to alternative energy sources and technology would be even greater. 

Yes, Canada is a small part in this and in producing carbon. 

Does not mean we just ignore our international commitments. 

Besides, the government just needs to find a way to make the carbon tax revenue neutral. 

In BC most of us are fine with what we have. Doubt it will even come up in our election in May.  

And I look forward to, some day soon, getting an electric vehicle so Saudi Arabia/Alberta can go to hell. 

That will probably not be good for the Canadian dollar at a very very very micro level. 

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On 1/23/2017 at 3:37 PM, Army Guy said:

Much like tobacco, we will tax the shit out of it, hoping one day everyone will quit....How did that work out, Yes a huge reduction in the amount , but there is still millions that still smoke and will forever....

There has been a significant* decrease in lung cancer for men over the past 30+ years, certainly tobacco usage has been part of that and taxation has some impact on that tobacco usage. For women we have not see the same order of improvement, so other factors cannot be ignored. 

 

*significant means significant, almost half the new cases (rate by population) as we had in the 70's. 

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On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎23 at 4:16 PM, msj said:

Here is BC we have gone from ~50% of adults smoking 40+ years ago to something like 13% today.  

That's very good results thanks to education and taxation. 

With fossil fuels it will be education, renewables, technology, and taxation.

BFD.  Adapt. 

Again I do not want to intentionally side track the issue but if you look at the stats, the reduction in smoking has come from education and word of mouth about cancer not taxes. People addicted to tobacco sadly will continue to pay any amount of tax to keep smoking. Addiction, the craving obsession to get nicotine is for some no different than crack or heroin if not alcohol. No tax will stop it.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18326

Education can stop future smokers but unfortunately word of mouth and crisis exposure to disease is what gets people to stop. Heart attacks, cancer, etc., are what make some stop and others can not.

That said the Canadian dollar is going to be destabilized by the Carbon Tax trade and cap which is a tax. Its a tax so let us call it that. Its a damn tax and like all taxes, you over-tax people, it puts their businesses under, it spirals their debts, it fuels foreclosures and movements of business and people to other jurisdictions all further shrinking the  exchange of currency which devalues it.

That's what we are facing. Canada is planning to pick up lost revenue from tobacco with marijhuana. Its forcasted it does not have enough population to keep paying into medicare with the baby boomer bulge, and so its looking or marijhuana tax as a stop gap measure. the problem is the idiot federal government won't reroute the marijhuana tax to health it will waste it because if there is o ne thing we know this government wastes.

It has no conception as to how to allot budgets and balance books. It simply spends with no thought to future consequences.

This current idiot of a Prime Minister and his entourage live in a world of privilege and trust funds. They have no concept of what it means to run up a debt. They always had trust accounts unlimited in amount to pay their damn lifestyles.

You think Lord Justin of Trudeau knows what its like to bounce a check or be unable to pay a mortgage or credit card? Hah. His puff pastry. He's fluff. He's marshmellow soft sheltered rich boy slumming it with the masses in some pathetic game of posing for photo ops. He's in an alternative world. After he's finished bankrupting this country he retires with a fat pension to pad Daddy's trust fund.

This last pathetic photo op session was a joke. He ignored people. He couldn't grasp basic concerns. He's an idiot in a fantasy world.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rue

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30 minutes ago, Rue said:

That said the Canadian dollar is going to be destabilized by the Carbon Tax trade and cap which is a tax. Its a tax so let us call it that. Its a damn tax and like all taxes, you over-tax people, it puts their businesses under, it spirals their debts, it fuels foreclosures and movements of business and people to other jurisdictions all further shrinking the  exchange of currency which devalues it.

Yes it is a tax, but it is not the total tax burden. Only the total tax burden has anything to do with all the hellfire and brimstone you preach, how much of it is allocated to any specific tax is completely, 100% irrelevant. If taxes are focused on the right areas then those who are less wasteful of our planets resources and future will benefit (bigly). 

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Taxes at the federal level are, btw, lower than the were under the Conservatives as of right now.  In fact, they're lower than at any point since the 1950s (as a percentage of the economy).

Edited by Smallc

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6 hours ago, msj said:

If we do not embrace change then the rest of the world will outpace us. 

The big countries aren't doing the carbon tax nonsense anymore.  Australia canned theirs.  Europe for the most part is an economic basketcase

6 hours ago, msj said:

What do we do when oil demand decreases because of changes to technology (electric vehicles, power walls etc)? 

Energy demand won't be decreasing as the rest of the world improves their living standards.  It will be an all of the above to meet the coming demand or should those in developing and third world counties eat cake?

6 hours ago, msj said:

The rest of the world, especially the sunny parts,  can easily, and cheaply, change over to solar over the next several decades.  

In fact, this is already happening now. 

Solar is still expensive and oil is a lot cheaper.  The poor countries want to be like us.  All energy solar and oil are needed.

6 hours ago, msj said:

But no, no jobs to be had in solar/wind technology. 

We're Canada so we can only focus on oil and gas because we can only do one thing at a time. 

One day, when the markets realize that the oil game is up and OPEC can no longer manipulate prices higher, it will hit our dollar.  No backup plan, no development of alternative industries that will pick up the slack.

The oil game won't be up for quite some time and the free market does a great job of deciding which energy is worthwhile, hence no more whale oil and horse and buggys

6 hours ago, msj said:

Then we really will see a low dollar. 

 

The way Trudeau is going that's a certainty.

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On 1/24/2017 at 3:26 PM, msj said:

If we do not embrace change then the rest of the world will outpace us.

Does that change involve driving the country into energy poverty as we see in Ontario?

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7 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Does that change involve driving the country into energy poverty as we see in Ontario?

Just because Ontario has done a crappy job of things does not mean the rest of the country will. 

I find it funny how when it comes down to wanting to implement any kind of energy policy it always comes down to: no, can't do that because, Ontario! 

Not a compelling argument. 

Edited by msj

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