Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
Sign in to follow this  
betsy

More Than Just A Question Of Ethics

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, betsy said:

 

My issue is the Islamophobia law.   Muslims are given a special status by being especially protected.

Trudeau should've made a law that protects all religion.

 
 

There is no Islamaphobia law.  It is a motion, which means the government has stated an opinion.   From the Practical Guides section of the Canadian Parliment website:

Quote

In deciding between a bill and a motion, the first difference to keep in mind is in their effect. Since in agreeing to a motion expressing a resolution, the House is only stating an opinion, the government will not be bound to adopt a specific policy or course of action. By contrast, because it becomes law when passed by Parliament, a bill may have far reaching implications for both the government and the public.

 

At this point, anti-Islamic sentiment is rivaling and even overtaking anti-Semitism, especially among the alt-right.   Consider that there are not multiple threads on this forum about how awful Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus are - but there are several threads specifically targeting Muslims.  There aren't people attacking Christians in the street, nor are there notions being floated that say "Let's have special rules for refugees and immigrants for people from Christian countries", even though there are Christian countries who follow many of the same barbaric practices that people from Islamic countries do.    

Your attempt at claiming victimhood fails, given that no law has been passed that excludes Christians, not to mention the very real issues Jews and Muslims (not to mention almost any other non-Christian religion) in Western countries face, compared to Christians.  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There is no Islamaphobia law.  It is a motion, which means the government has stated an opinion.   From the Practical Guides section of the Canadian Parliment website:

At this point, anti-Islamic sentiment is rivaling and even overtaking anti-Semitism, especially among the alt-right.   Consider that there are not multiple threads on this forum about how awful Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus are - but there are several threads specifically targeting Muslims.  There aren't people attacking Christians in the street, nor are there notions being floated that say "Let's have special rules for refugees and immigrants for people from Christian countries", even though there are Christian countries who follow many of the same barbaric practices that people from Islamic countries do.    

Your attempt at claiming victimhood fails, given that no law has been passed that excludes Christians, not to mention the very real issues Jews and Muslims (not to mention almost any other non-Christian religion) in Western countries face, compared to Christians.  

 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter.

The government ought to protect ALL! 

 

 

Quote

Canada Inching Toward ‘Islamophobia’ Law

 

 

 

Quote

At this point, anti-Islamic sentiment is rivaling and even overtaking anti-Semitism, especially among the alt-right.  

 

Sentiments can, and do change. 

All the more reason  to make one law that protects all. 

 

Anyway, back to the issue of questionable decision:  was he influenced by the Aga Khan?

 

Edited by betsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Sentiments can, and do change. 

All the more reason  to make one law that protects all

 

 

 

1

We already have freedom of religion and anti-hate laws, so I don't see the need for 'more' laws.  

No idea about the Aga Kahn.   I suspect this is merely a tempest in a teapot, the conservative using anti-Islamic feeling to skewer the PM.   If the investigation finds that he behaved unethically, he should be skewered for that.   If it's found that he didn't, I hope the Conservatives would accept that, but I doubt that would happen.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

We already have freedom of religion and anti-hate laws, so I don't see the need for 'more' laws. 

 

Tell that to Trudeau.  I agree with you.

 

That's why it stinks that he comes up with this agenda.....after several meetings with the Aga Khan.   Of course, that's a logical speculation that he got privately lobbied while he was being "partied."

Edited by betsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

And the God of Islam is the same God he believes in as a Catholic.

 

Actually...no...unfortunately. Despite Islam stealing Bible stories, Allah is the Arab's Moon god and was given the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_pre-Islamic_Arabia

But, like Christianity, iconoclasm and cultural appropriation are part and parcel of Islam.

Islam unlike Christianity, spread by the sword rather than missionary.

You're free to support Islam...at least for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

It's idiocy. Full stop. Let's not split hairs here.

 

People convert to Islam daily....stop calling them idiots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Today you call Trudeau a lying sack of crap (along with arrogant shuck and naïve ass), the other day you called Wynne an idiot. I guess insults against anyone that you don't identify as 'right wing' is acceptable.

Your comment makes no sense. I call people left or right nasty and nice names depending on my subjective opinion. Now to be clear, Wynne and Trudeau are a bunch of jackasses on all counts.  I consider many things Trump says to be jackassian. I considered George Bush at times to be Jackassian in comment and behaviour.

Do you have a point. If you defend the policies of Wynne and Trudeau I would think any position tryingt o defend their positions would be inherently jackassian in content.

I do hope that clarifies things for you. Now when someone stands up in front of a country and tells them how he is going to avoid the very appearance of conflict of interest Trudeau then engaged in, that makes him a two faced liar and in my opinion inherently jackassian in essence.

Lol. Get over it. I had no idea my opinions meant so much to you.

Listen Ms. Wynne flips and flops like a seal. She imposes hidden and out of control expenses on us with hair brained energy schemes then in the next breath acts all shocked over road tolls being too much on people. Lol. Flip flop. Little late now for her to try suck up to the people she gave the fist up the wazoo to.

But hey Trudeau what a role model.I mean in one flight he caused more air pollution then the average Canadian in a year and for what? Oh well he needed a vacation and you know he wasn't going to slum it on a Sunflight But hey he's concerned about greenhouse emissions. He's a joke. He's a spoiled rich boy from la la land playing a fairy tale role. He has his wings, wand and he's both Peter Pan and Tinkerbell in one act. He needs the Hook.

Edited by Rue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Christianity wasn't spread by the sword? There's a great many indigenous peoples in the Americas and South Pacific that would like a word with you. There's a lot of dead witches in Salem who would also like a chat. And there's a ton of bodies from the crusades that you may have overlooked.

Regardless, you're on an island by yourself if you think the god of Islam is not the same judeo-Christian God. Jesus is even a prophet in Islam. You're so far out to lunch in your zealotry to hate Islam, you can't even agree on simple facts.

 

Christianity's spread throughout the known world of the time was peaceful. Peter and pals...might have heard of them. Plus, the entire Roman World 'converted' after the Battle of Milvan Bridge. Peaceful, again...the conversion...not the preceding battle.

In hoc signo vinces!

In the New World, missions were also the preferred choice for winning over the natives. Wars between various European entities, however, spread to the New World causing much harm to natives and Europeans alike. The movie 'The Mission' perhaps details this conflict the best for modern audiences.

I look forward to your examples of Christianity being spread 'by the sword' as Islam does. That is: forced conversions and such by military campaigns. We'll discuss each one in turn. Over to you...

(Hint: Spain)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, cybercoma said:

I'm not having a "discussion" with someone who can't even agree on basic facts and reality. If you think the conquering of the New World was a mission of peace, you're quite literally delusional.

 

Moving the goal posts: the spread of Christianity in the New World was generally via missions. Wars in the New World weren't about Christianity. They were struggles between European powers. Natives often took sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rue said:

Lol. Get over it. I had no idea my opinions meant so much to you.

They don't, I was just pointing out the biased nature of the moderation on this website. It seems that making snide reference to the nightly Twitter habits of the new President is verboten, but far more direct insults to non "right wing" politicians is a daily occurrence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cybercoma said:

Sure they weren't. It was all glorious and peaceful conversions. They never starved people or killed them when they didn't convert after taking over their ancestral territories. None of that ever happened.

LIsten, I'm not going to argue with your #AlternativeFacts. Get back to me when you can agree on the common reality, as written by the vast majority of scholars on the history of Christianity.

 

Again: you're free to actually support your side of the conversation with actual examples rather than made-up generalities. Then we can discuss each in turn.

As mentioned: think Spain. Conversos...look 'em up.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, betsy said:

Trudeau should've made a law that protects all religion.

The Liberal Party created a group to study the issue, Harper went much further with his Ottawa protocol/resolution on anti-semitism. I guess you must think that Harper is the devil himself for that. Would it not be reasonable to see what the results of this group are before going off the deep end, perhaps they might suggest something that does encompass all religions, unlike the previous government. This might be a fix to the very problem you are complaining about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Doesn't matter.

The government ought to protect ALL! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sentiments can, and do change. 

All the more reason  to make one law that protects all. 

 

Anyway, back to the issue of questionable decision:  was he influenced by the Aga Khan?

 

 With all those secret meeting with the muslims , now we know what is going to happen. Trudeau's secret agenda is not so secret. Protect Islam and shut down the oil sands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PIK said:

 With all those secret meeting with the muslims , now we know what is going to happen. Trudeau's secret agenda is not so secret. Protect Islam and shut down the oil sands.

 

Probably got a deal with the Muslims - they'll vote Liberals forever! That's why he's trying to pack em all in!  :lol:

Edited by betsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We english, french and native better get our differences cleared up before we all lose out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tinfoil hats are popular around here...    

 

The MUSLIMS!!!  THE MUSLIMS!!!   

Reality has no place inside your heads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The_Squid said:

Tinfoil hats are popular around here...    

 

The MUSLIMS!!!  THE MUSLIMS!!!   

Reality has no place inside your heads.

 

Poor Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, cybercoma said:

I'm not having a "discussion" with someone who can't even agree on basic facts and reality. If you think the conquering of the New World was a mission of peace, you're quite literally delusional.

:rolleyes:

 

Coming from someone who didn't understand the meaning of "mandate"..........

 

Don't you agree?  Trudeau has problems with honesty and ethics!   That's deadly. 

Edited by betsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2017 at 10:15 AM, dialamah said:

We already have freedom of religion and anti-hate laws, so I don't see the need for 'more' laws.  

No idea about the Aga Kahn.   I suspect this is merely a tempest in a teapot, the conservative using anti-Islamic feeling to skewer the PM.   If the investigation finds that he behaved unethically, he should be skewered for that.   If it's found that he didn't, I hope the Conservatives would accept that, but I doubt that would happen.

 

No. The Conservatives and Harper were as friendly to the Aga as Trudeau. The issue now is not Ismaili Islam and never was. It is  about a Prime Minister travelling on a private jet with someone who lobbies the government for funding for his charities not about religion.

This is about conflict of interest. The Aga lobbues for money for charitable deeds, not for the spreading of Islam.

On another note to answer a previous comment you made there are no shortage of responses on this forum attacking Jews  often hidden behind the word Zionist. There have been also some very ignrant comments made about Catholics, other Christians.

I challenge any negative generalization about an entire people for the same reason. In the case of Ismaili Muslims they are persecuted and detested by Shiite and Sunni sects in the Arab countries and Pakistan-Bangladesh. To say they are part of a Muslim conspiracy to take over Canada is silly.

My issue with Trudeau is his blatant violation of conflict of interest laws the very same ones he criticized Harper for breaking. He's a two faced liar. He says one thing and does another. That's the issue not Islam. He has no business taking private flights and receveiving private benefits from a man who lobbies government for funds. End of story.

As for the other stuff about Islamophobia,etc., I agree with Betsy a law against discrimination must be applied equally to all religions.

I get what Betsy is saying and others. They may not clearly state it sometimes but they are questioning Trudeau's judgement. He has associated with extreme Muslims in mosques in Canada and has an extreme bigoted Muslim as his chief Middle East advisor.  These Muslims are anti Christian and anti Jewish, antii-Hundu/Buddhist/Siekh/Bahaii/Zoroastrean/Yazidi/Druze/gay/Ismaili/Amidyyah/ on and on and on.

Trudeau's brother Sasha produced a documentary for Iran rejoicing in how wonderful it is as a religious example of Muslim statehood.

Trudeau shows poor judgement. Its because he's a sheltered rich boy living in la la land.

That said, and I said it earlier, I don't think Trudeau does what he does because he's pro or anti anyone. I think he just wants to be everyone's hero. He's not that deep. This is a man who can't speak 3 words without an uh uh uh. His head echoes with wind.

I think his Defence Minister, and retired Gen. James, are well aware of Muslim extremism, enough to keep him real. I think the mission of Canada with the Kurds was a good thing and if he was as one sided in favour of Muslim extremism as some say, we would not be helping the Kurds.

I don't like him. I don't trust his judgement, I can't stand him, but I don't for a second think he deliberately wants to favour Muslims as much as he is caught up in playing Mr. Tolerant of all until they question him.

I also think mainstream Muslim Canadians in years to come will be bearing the brunt of growing distrust no different than the Japanese, Italians, Germans during WW2. Discrimination can come from questioning an entire group because of its perceived political, religious, terrorist, beliefs.

We have to find a way to differentiate between Muslims that are terrorist or extremist and whose beliefs that conflict with democratic values  and those who complement Canadian society. If we don't we heed a collective negative hysteria about Muslims which is what Muslim terrorists want..

Edited by Rue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Probably got a deal with the Muslims - they'll vote Liberals forever! That's why he's trying to pack em all in!  :lol:

They said that about French Canadians, Quebecers, Jews, Catholics, Italians, etc. Not sure about that. All political parties are known to pander to ethnic votes.

I do think Trudeau is currently pandering to what he perceives as a Muslim ethnic vote source but it could easily back fire on him.

Remember, French Quebecers bailed on the Liberals in favour of Mulroney.

Harper was very popular with Hindus, Siekhs, and Jews who were said to always be Liberal. 

I became a Conservative because of Harper and in response to the corruption and anti-semitism in the Liberal Party.

I heard the comments first hand about Bob Rae's wife being a Jew on the floor. I also heard Harper say tough stuff about foreign policy because he was not pandering but because he was being principled about his beliefs. There's a difference. Mulroney pandered, Trudeau Panders,  Trudeau Sr.,  Martin, Chretiens pandered.

I didn't see it with Harper. If he was a true panderer he would not have taken the stance he did with Israel, China, Tibet.  He often turned down more votes than he could have had following principled positions he knew would not be popular. Trudeau has no spine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...