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Muslims Shot and Killed in Quebec City

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3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Or, if they are not Canadian citizens, I would be happy to see them deported.

I'd rather they be imprisoned  and work their nails to the bone every day for the rest of their lives to repay their debt to society.

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2 hours ago, Topaz said:

I don't understand, why would one of their own kill them? One is a Moroccan, both students, is this a mental health issue or are they a "silent terrorosts" and why now?                                                               http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html      

Vast majority of terrorist attacks in the middle east are Muslims attacking other Muslims.

Could be a Sunni vs Shia or Kurd thing.  Could be radicals thinking non-fundamentalists are apostates (not "true" Muslims and thus traitors and non-believers).  In this case, who knows.

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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1 hour ago, betsy said:

 

 

Just like the shooting of black people  in a church in the USA while they were doing Bible study. 

Islamic terrorism had opened up a can of worms.  Copycats are coming out.

 

I am under the impression that the shooter at the church in the USA was motivated by racial claptrap and not islamic terrorism. Perhaps you are saying that if islamic terrorists hadn't have done killings then the shooting at the church would never have happened since the shooter there was merely copy-catting Islamic terrorists?

 

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'd rather they be imprisoned  and work their nails to the bone every day for the rest of their lives to repay their debt to society.

That is ok with me too.   Perhaps permanent housing in the segregation unit; working allows them contact with others and may contribute to their feelings of comfort and being part of humanity.

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9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

That is ok with me too.   Perhaps permanent housing in the segregation unit; working allows them contact with others and may contribute to their feelings of comfort and being part of humanity.

Kind of like gitmo.....

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Just now, Army Guy said:

Kind of like gitmo.....

Segregation is already in use in prisons; nothing new.   But it's (supposed to be) limited in duration.   Long term or permanent isolation can be very damaging to human beings, and at least some of this damage is permanent.   Don't even needed added torture, so no -- not like gitmo.

 

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3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Segregation is already in use in prisons; nothing new.   But it's (supposed to be) limited in duration.   Long term or permanent isolation can be very damaging to human beings, and at least some of this damage is permanent.   Don't even needed added torture, so no -- not like gitmo.

 

That's the problem with you liberals you don't know what you mean......you agree that they should be worked to the bone....you even add segregation, then fill us in on how damaging it is........our own Canadian prisoners are not treated like this, they don't have to work, nor are they treated as badly as you want to treat foreign prisoners....... But your willing to create a two tier inmate system just for foreign prisoners who create crimes in Canada....Shit was't you that said bomb them flat if they used torture......not very liberal ideals.....maybe you are an NDP....

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3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

"terrorists" could mean anything.  It might even suggest a Canadian terrorists committing acts of terrorism against Muslims which might be motivated by bigotry.

No it is because thier heads are in the sand, until now. But I believe he was thinking is was non muslims attacking muslims. He misspoke again.IMO.

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1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

That's the problem with you liberals

 

The problem with you Conservatives is that you believe everything the right-wing media outlets tell you and you think you can take one characteristic and use that to define every single person in a group.   Stupid!

Quote

you agree that they should be worked to the bone....you even add segregation, then fill us in on how damaging it is........our own Canadian prisoners are not treated like this, they don't have to work, nor are they treated as badly as you want to treat foreign prisoners....... But your willing to create a two tier inmate system just for foreign prisoners who create crimes in Canada....Shit was't you that said bomb them flat if they used torture......not very liberal ideals.....maybe you are an NDP....

 

I don't have to claim partisanship to any political party or ideology to be sickened and angry about this attack, and to wish the worst possible punishment on the perpetrator(s).  

 

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7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The problem with you Conservatives is that you believe everything the right-wing media outlets tell you and you think you can take one characteristic and use that to define every single person in a group.   Stupid!

I don't have to claim partisanship to any political party or ideology to be sickened and angry about this attack, and to wish the worst possible punishment on the perpetrator(s).  

 

Your right my bad, i should not have called you a liberal or even a cult member of the NDP.....for that i am sorry for all i know your just a guy in a tree in BC with some issues, i don't know.....like i said sorry.

Your also right you don't have to belong to any party to have an opinion, since your are all across the map....at one point your saving the whales, next your leveling entire countries because the tortured a few Canadians.....lets not forget crating an entire new class of inmate to serve your form of justice....your opinions are based a lot closer to trumps than you say they are.

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Just now, Army Guy said:

Your right my bad, i should not have called you a liberal or even a cult member of the NDP.....for that i am sorry for all i know your just a guy in a tree in BC with some issues, i don't know.....like i said sorry.

Your also right you don't have to belong to any party to have an opinion, since your are all across the map....at one point your saving the whales, next your leveling entire countries because the tortured a few Canadians.....lets not forget crating an entire new class of inmate to serve your form of justice....your opinions are based a lot closer to trumps than you say they are.

 

Thank you for noticing that I am an individual.  I shall extend you the same courtesy.

The thing is that we already have segregation in our prisons, it is used regularly and often beyond the guidelines established within the prison system.  It is also used for reasons not condoned within their regulations - but because these are 'prisoners', few people care about that.   Segregating people from human contact, in a small room and with a light on 24 hours a day creates psychoses and/or suicidal thoughts and behavior in a fairly short period of time.   

I think most run-of-the mill prisoners can and should be rehabilitated to become contributing members of society, but our prison system does not do that.   There are some prisoners who cannot be rehabilitated - sex offenders and sadistic killers, for example.   They need to be locked up permanently, in my opinion.   Certainly, I'd support permanent isolation for some of them at least.   And also for those who walk into buildings to shoot people, based on ideology or religion.   

I admit I may have a more moderate response when I'm not feeling quite so emotional, but right now, I really want that guy to suffer.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

That is ok with me too.   Perhaps permanent housing in the segregation unit; working allows them contact with others and may contribute to their feelings of comfort and being part of humanity.

Who gives a flying f about their comfort and feelings of humanity. Is this poe because you can't be serious.

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2 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Who gives a flying f about their comfort and feelings of humanity. Is this poe because you can't be serious.

Perhaps re-read what I wrote.  I was essentially agreeing with that sentiment.   

 

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2 hours ago, Peter F said:

I am under the impression that the shooter at the church in the USA was motivated by racial claptrap and not islamic terrorism. Perhaps you are saying that if islamic terrorists hadn't have done killings then the shooting at the church would never have happened since the shooter there was merely copy-catting Islamic terrorists?

 

 

Yes I'm aware that it wasn't perpetuated by Islamist.  I was giving the black people in church as another example of people dying while at church. 

 

And yes, I think the recent acts of violence (mass shootings, massacres,) we see that are not Islamist-related are most likely inspired by Islamist terrorism. 

 

I can't remember, but wasn't there a terrorist  killing done in a church in France?

Edited by betsy

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3 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Yes I'm aware that it wasn't perpetuated by Islamist.  

You were quick to come up with theories when you thought it might have been. Do you have a theory now that perhaps the dialogue among right-wingers, trying to make every muslim a terrorist suspect, might have led to these murders?

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1 hour ago, PIK said:

No it is because thier heads are in the sand, until now. But I believe he was thinking is was non muslims attacking muslims. He misspoke again.IMO.

 

Now they're saying only one was the shooter, and the other one is a witness....they didn't say which one among the two.

If indeed this was Islamist terrorism - we'll see if Trudeau will state it flatly as Islamist terrorism.  Remember when Obama and Hillary refused to identify it specifically?  they refused to say Islamist.

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3 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Now they're saying only one was the shooter, and the other one is a witness....they didn't say which one among the two.

If indeed this was Islamist terrorism - we'll see if Trudeau will state it flatly as Islamist terrorism.  Remember when Obama and Hillary refused to identify it specifically?  they refused to say Islamist.

 

The one they picked up near the mosque is the witness; that was the Moroccan.   The one in the car had the guns and called 911 to come and get him, said he felt guilty for what he'd done; that is the suspect.   Things may change, but that's the story at the moment.

 

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15 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Now they're saying only one was the shooter, and the other one is a witness....they didn't say which one among the two.

If indeed this was Islamist terrorism - we'll see if Trudeau will state it flatly as Islamist terrorism.  Remember when Obama and Hillary refused to identify it specifically?  they refused to say Islamist.

WHen the "islamist" has been identified as the witness, will you flatly refuse to call it right-wing terrorism? Will you deny that the dialogue that you engage in had anything to do with it?

Because if  you're going to insist that whenever a person who self-identifies as muslim commits a horrible act, then we must paint all of Islam with that brush, then you should agree that when a person who identifies with your ideology and commits a horrible act, it paints you in the same way.

Edited by BubberMiley

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6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The one they picked up near the mosque is the witness; that was the Moroccan.   The one in the car had the guns and called 911 to come and get him, said he felt guilty for what he'd done; that is the suspect.   Things may change, but that's the story at the moment.

 

Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, betsy said:

Thanks.

So will you call on Trudeau to label it right-wing terrorism if that is what it turns out to be?

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56 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Who gives a flying f about their comfort and feelings of humanity. Is this poe because you can't be serious.

 

That's the assessment in France - their theory why their Muslim youth are easily radicalized.  Somebody said they need bigger houses.....like the ones others have. 

 

It smacks of extortion. :lol:

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11 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

WHen the "islamist" has been identified as the witness, will you flatly refuse to call it right-wing terrorism? Will you deny that the dialogue that you engage in had anything to do with it?

Given he was French I don't see how our dialogue had anything to do with it. And in any case, looking for blame  outside the headspace of the nebbish little man who committed the crime is dumb. A girl who knew him described him as a loner who just played video games. Doesn't sound like someone steeped in ideology or knowledge.

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Just now, Argus said:

Given he was French I don't see how our dialogue had anything to do with it. And in any case, looking for blame  outside the headspace of the nebbish little man who committed the crime is dumb. A girl who knew him described him as a loner who just played video games. Doesn't sound like someone steeped in ideology or knowledge.

I said if it turns out he is a right-wing ideologue (unlike you, I'm not jumping to conclusions), would you call on Trudeau to identify it as such, as you feel it is important to identify it as such if the person has a muslim name?

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Just now, BubberMiley said:

I said if it turns out he is a right-wing ideologue (unlike you, I'm not jumping to conclusions), would you call on Trudeau to identify it as such, as you feel it is important to identify it as such if the person has a muslim name?

I'm not one of those people who fulminates when people like Obama fail to use the term 'Islamic terrorism' and don't really care what you label something. My interest is in getting at the underlying causes of people doing things like this. With the majority it's Islam, or at least, a version of Islam which is widely heeded.

As for calling this 'right wing terrorism' I'm dubious. I've said many times I don't believe the people in the US who call themselves conservative actually ARE conservative by any traditional measure of the term, and that includes Trump, Bannon, Cruz, and their hangers on and fart catchers. I consider myself, on the other hand, to be conservative. And I don't want to be lumped in with the likes of of them. Insofar as you want to say this loser was inspired by political/ideological aims then I would say he likely is a 'right wing ideologue' in the way most of you like to use the term. Apparently he was an admirer of Le Pen, and anti-feminist as well as anti-immigrant. I don't really see how you can admire a female politician and want her to be president of France and also be anti-feminist, but then I'm sane.

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