Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
bush_cheney2004

Muslims Shot and Killed in Quebec City

Recommended Posts

Just now, Argus said:

Is it broad brushing them when you cite polls showing huge majorities of them feel a certain way? Is it broad brushing them when you observe that nowhere in the Muslim world are gays or Jews safe, or are women considered equal?

It really is.  That isn't the experience in Canada.  That isn't the experience of individual Muslim people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

/facepalm

 

 

I'm saying /facepalm. Why did you always need to have things repeated to you? 

 

I didn't.  You repeated your self immediately with no intervening post from me.  Are you saying, you know?

Edited by bcsapper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Smallc said:

No, they aren't; and that kind of talk is part of the problem.

Are you saying you can be a muslim without the islamic faith.....or are saying that it's all about a religion that can not be re written or modernized as it is again'st the religion itself and there fore can not be brought into the modern world , and is now up to your interpretation.....How is that working out....lets see we had the TALIBAN....then Al Qadia.....then ISIS, and ISIL those guys have some wicked interpretation.....not to mention the mostly muslim countries and each of their interpretations....

SO what is it.....can you be muslim , but not directly tied to islam, or is all this just everyone's interpretation of islam and its hard to do as it was written so long ago.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Smallc said:

It really is.  That isn't the experience in Canada.  That isn't the experience of individual Muslim people.

you can't compare......it's apples and oranges....we are not a muslim country....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Smallc said:

It really is.  That isn't the experience in Canada.  That isn't the experience of individual Muslim people.

I think that saying that isn't the experience of individual Muslim people is applying a pretty broad brush too.  I would suggest it is the experience of many individual Muslim people.

Not only that, but I would suggest that  there are many other individual Muslim people who support the notion that it should be, too.

When you have 1.5 billion, and many (most?) of them live in countries where such things are viewed as normal, it seems to me that would be the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Are you saying you can be a muslim without the islamic faith

No - I'm saying that individual Muslims live and experience their faith in different ways, just as is true with individual Christians.

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

How is that working out....lets see we had the TALIBAN....then Al Qadia.....then ISIS, and ISIL those guys have some wicked interpretation.....not to mention the mostly muslim countries and each of their interpretations....

This is the problem - you can't broad brush all Muslim people as Taliban supporters or ISIS supporters - they aren't.

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

SO what is it.....can you be muslim , but not directly tied to islam, or is all this just everyone's interpretation of islam and its hard to do as it was written so long ago.....

Well, it's all made up nonsense, so yeah, that last part.

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

you can't compare......it's apples and oranges....we are not a muslim country....

And that is part of my point - we're not a Muslim country and our immigration system has created a peaceful multicultural society, so there's no need for fear mongering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bcsapper said:

I think that saying that isn't the experience of individual Muslim people is applying a pretty broad brush too.  I would suggest it is the experience of many individual Muslim people.

Not only that, but I would suggest that  there are many other individual Muslim people who support the notion that it should be, too.

When you have 1.5 billion, and many (most?) of them live in countries where such things are viewed as normal, it seems to me that would be the case.

You're probably right (though I'm not sure how you can broad brush an individual).  The reality is, we've done a a pretty good job of picking immigrants, based on our outcomes.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

....funny how we let the khadrs slip out of our fingers, and yet everyone is yelling for this guys balls on a plate....maybe it is just me....

How many people did a Khadr kill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

You're probably right (though I'm not sure how you can broad brush an individual).  The reality is, we've done a a pretty good job of picking immigrants, based on our outcomes.  

Individual Muslim people, not person.

I fully agree that your quality of immigrant is top drawer.  Splendid, in fact!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Peter F said:

How many people did a Khadr kill?

one US army Medic....however he planted IED's for a long time, are you saying he did not kill anyone with those .....SO we don't know for sure....

the question should be which one.....there is so many...

Edited by Army Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

one US army Medic....however he planted IED's for a long time, are you saying he did not kill anyone with those .....SO we don't know for sure....

the question should be which one.....there is so many...

He wasn't a medic! He was Special Forces - They're all medics in the SF, for god sakes.  But thats a point of order.  So you admit that you have no idea how many the Khadr's have killed. Outside of the SF sgt - which the USofA tried, convicted and sentenced Omar for - you have no idea. But you suspect that one of the Khadrs might have and have the audacity to claim that your suspicions of what may be are equivalent to Bissonnette actually killing 6 Get a grip

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Smallc said:

You're probably right (though I'm not sure how you can broad brush an individual).  The reality is, we've done a a pretty good job of picking immigrants, based on our outcomes.  

Reality is we could do alot better .....lets talk refugee for a min, what happened to all those that we interviewed , but had no papers or ID's because they were lost or destroyed in the conflict, or so the story goes, also how long did each interview last, i know some of the guys that were over there they say on average 45 mins, some less some more.....45 mins to determine good or bad.....little indepth research was conducted, as most of the time there no way to get a hold of character witnesses, or references....lets remember that this was a first time mission for the CF, and they conducted it as best they knew how......the rest of the organizations there had not conducted this type of mission either....it was all made up on the fly....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Reality is we could do alot better .....lets talk refugee for a min, what happened to all those that we interviewed , but had no papers or ID's because they were lost or destroyed in the conflict, or so the story goes

If there are gaps in your story or history, you don't get in.  Remember, these refugees have already been vetted by the UN.  Both the Obama and Trump administration have said they have no problem with our process.  Some US Senators actually wanted to add parts of our process to theirs.

Canada has what is probably the most successful system of immigration and refugee settlement in the world.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And again, we're talking about bad Muslims in a thread where a bunch of good Muslims we're killed by a bad white French speaking guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

And again, we're talking about bad Muslims in a thread where a bunch of good Muslims we're killed by a bad white French speaking guy.

There's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with Islamophobia, or Xenophobia, or any other phobia.  Whenever something like this happens, regardless of whether a Muslim is the perpetrator, victim, or both, the absolutely mind boggling excesses of the Islamic religion will always find their way into the conversation.  They can't be kept out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Peter F said:

He wasn't a medic! He was Special Forces - They're all medics in the SF, for god sakes.  But thats a point of order.  So you admit that you have no idea how many the Khadr's have killed. Outside of the SF sgt - which the USofA tried, convicted and sentenced Omar for - you have no idea. But you suspect that one of the Khadrs might have and have the audacity to claim that your suspicions of what may be are equivalent to Bissonnette actually killing 6 Get a grip

 

Nice try, perhaps you should do some goggling.....he is a medic by trade.....that worked within the SF at the time....good thing it is not a point of order.....If you are asking me can i prove he killed any more i would say no, infact i have said no.........however it is likely as he planted a lot of IED's , most of which we destroyed by either civilians or military traffic...go figure....that much we know as it is on film......

As for the others Khadrs  they did take part in terrorist activities, how many they killed no one knows for sure , not much in the way of courtroom evidence in a combat zone.....if that makes it ok for you to sleep at night so be it....does not mean it did not happen, just that it can not be proved in a court of law.....what evidence the CIA buried we do not know either....

Lets just be clear here Bissonnette is a terrorist no better or worse than any other terrorist.....regardless how many people he killed....but you want to turn this into a dick measuring contest how many people did he kill  ?....as if there was merit in getting a high score.....there is not....only difference here is one group is living off Canadian good will, and laughing all the way to the bank. and the other is a White canadian kid, who gave himself up....for what reason again ? .....but he is the one Canadians want to hang by the balls.....Khadrs , ahhh we will live with those mistakes....Bissonnette not so much....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

There's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with Islamophobia, or Xenophobia, or any other phobia.  Whenever something like this happens, regardless of whether a Muslim is the perpetrator, victim, or both, the absolutely mind boggling excesses of the Islamic religion will always find their way into the conversation.  They can't be kept out of it.

I don't agree with that.  Islam didn't cause this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Smallc said:

If there are gaps in your story or history, you don't get in.  Remember, these refugees have already been vetted by the UN.  Both the Obama and Trump administration have said they have no problem with our process.  Some US Senators actually wanted to add parts of our process to theirs.

Canada has what is probably the most successful system of immigration and refugee settlement in the world.  

Like i said how would you verify anything if you could not contact persons that were used as character references.....remember most of these syrian cities are nothing more than shells now....people have been forced to move constantly.....how do you cross reference any of that.....you can't......it was up to the interviewer , that lasted maybe 45 mins to vet everything that was said...... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you again admit there is no evidence worthy of a courtroom against any Khadr's. I would say thats why they (and for that matter you or me) have never been put on trial for their supposed crimes.  

And no, I'm not dick-measuring anything: Bissonnette has been charged with 6 murders , trial forthcoming. Khadrs have been charged with nothing at all (outside of Omar)

Point of order: "Medic by trade'   . Big effin whoop. He wasn't wearing a uniform or appropriately marked as a medic. Nor behaving as a medic by laying down covering fire , Just like every other SF soldier is trained to do. That he was a medic by trade don't mean shit.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

I don't agree with that.  Islam didn't cause this.

Ya it did....Islam and the west had everything to do with this.......you want to talk honestly then talk....but you can't leave the two elephants in the room and not mention them....it is now a contest to see you can kill or convert or recruit more people to do more violence.....any where in the west.....or middle east.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Like i said how would you verify anything if you could not contact persons that were used as character references.

I don't know - but I don't think you do either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Smallc said:

I don't agree with that.  Islam didn't cause this.

No they did not.  I most definitely do not mean to imply that. 

 

Edi>  sorry, misread your post.  I thought you meant the victims.

Edited by bcsapper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

Ya it did....Islam and the west had everything to do with this.......you want to talk honestly then talk....but you can't leave the two elephants in the room and not mention them....it is now a contest to see you can kill or convert or recruit more people to do more violence.....any where in the west.....or middle east.

The tragedy in Quebec is not a contest.  This is a story of people going bout their lives being killed by someone full of hate.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

Ya it did....Islam and the west had everything to do with this.......you want to talk honestly then talk....but you can't leave the two elephants in the room and not mention them....it is now a contest to see you can kill or convert or recruit more people to do more violence.....any where in the west.....or middle east.

So this isn't really criticism of Islam is it? What you are saying is that Muslims are at war with us. Effin war! Muslims in Canada - even this praying at a mosque in Quebec city - are trying to kill or convert US, and we are trying to do the same to them!

This is the demonization that Dalilamah was talking about earlier.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Smallc said:

I don't agree with that.  Islam didn't cause this.

I'll try again.  I never said anything about the cause of the most recent incident.  I said the excesses of the Islamic religion cannot be kept out of the conversation when discussing religious violence involving Muslims.  Even if they are the victims.  The conversation expands beyond the immediate situation and such drift occurs naturally.  As i said earlier, it's due to mind boggling nature of those excesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...