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Electoral Reform Abandoned

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You JT are a Liar!

 2015 will not be the last Federal Election that will be using FPTP. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-electoral-reform-mandate-1.3961736

Quote

 

Justin Trudeau's Liberal government is abandoning a commitment to reform the federal electoral system.

A new mandate letter issued to Minister of Democratic Institutions Karina Gould says "changing the electoral system will not be in your mandate."

Gould is talking to reporters on Parliament Hill at 1 p.m. ET and CBC News is livestreaming her news conference.

"There has been tremendous work by the House of Commons Special Committee on Electoral Reform, outreach by Members of Parliament by all parties, and engagement of 360,000 individuals in Canada through mydemocracy.ca," Trudeau writes in his letter to Gould.

"A clear preference for a new electoral system, let alone a consensus, has not emerged. Furthermore, without a clear preference or a clear question, a referendum would not be in Canada's interest. Changing the electoral system will not be in your mandate."

Gould was appointed minister last month, replacing Maryam Monsef.

Trudeau first committed to replacing the current first-past-the-post electoral system in June 2015, shortly before the federal election campaign. His government's first throne speech then promised that the Liberals would "take action to ensure that 2015 will be the last federal election conducted under the first-past-the-post voting system."

 

Didn't look for a consensus on Carbon Pricing. And when do you have a consensus on anything? 

What's the deal with this Broken Promise? They had the mandate to do it and it would probably hurt the opposition parties. Is it just cuz they realize the chances of Majorities under a Proportional Representation system are next to nil? 

Edited by Boges

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You mean a Liberal politician lied to the Canadian people?

I don't believe it. That can't happen. 

I live in Ontario and the Ontario Liberals would never do that. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

You JT are a Liar!

 2015 will not be the last Federal Election that will be using FPTP. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-electoral-reform-mandate-1.3961736

Didn't look for a consensus on Carbon Pricing. And when do you have a consensus on anything? 

What's the deal with this Broken Promise? They had the mandate to do it and it would probably hurt the opposition parties. Is it just cuz they realize the chances of Majorities under a Proportional Representation system are next to nil? 

I don't understand why people are surprised by this, and I don't believe for a moment that Trdueau has abandoned ranked ballots.  Everything is in place except a public stamp.  Maybe this is part of the campaign, get enough people bitching and he'll reluctantly pass ranked ballot legislation through the Commons and Senate in about 20 minutes.

 

Proportional representation was NEVER happening.  It meant that Liberals would have minorities at best, and that ain't gonna happen.

 

FPTP is his fallback, and he can blame NDP/Con committee members since his Libs wanted ranked ballots in their minority report.

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So what they're gonna tell two lies? About that Abandoning of Electoral Reform, yeah we're going to do a stupid system without any public consultation anyway.

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There are promises you break and then there are outright lies you tell to get elected, UNDRIP, deficit, election reform, and several others.  They would only have accepted a ranked ballot system because that means liberal rule forever, they weren't getting it, so they killed it.  It's pretty cynical, but the liberals are always the worst for this sort of thing, and they always get away with it more.  UNDRIP was another prime example, they vilified the cons for not adopting it and two months after they were elected suddenly figured out it wasn't possible, they wanted to buy those native votes, so they lied to them, the conservatives were honest about it and were evil for it, that's Canadian politics in a nutshell.

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It's a major failure...   should drive a bunch of votes to the NDP for people who care about the issue, assuming we ever hear from the NDP again....  they seem to have disappeared.  

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5 minutes ago, Boges said:

 what they're gonna tell two lies? About that Abandoning of Electoral Reform, yeah we're going to do a stupid system without any public consultation anyway.

You are underestimating their capacity for duplicity, double talk and outright lies.  See 'acquisition of fighter jets' for a good recent and ongoing example of same.  They also have high approval ratings, a stacked Senate and two years to settle down their adoring base after they ramrod ranked ballots through.

 

No consultation?  From the Liberals standpoint, they have already done several rounds of consultation: an election they won easily, a round of 'townhall meetings' in Liberal ridings last summer, a long bout of 'non partisan' MP committee meetings, and an online citizen survey.   I can easily see the uproar over this morphing into" Gee, by popular demand electoral reform is back on the agenda, Canadians are insisting on change, and the vote on ranked ballots is on Tuesday".  Giddyup.  Why not?  What would stop them from doing that?

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4 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

It's a major failure...   should drive a bunch of votes to the NDP for people who care about the issue, assuming we ever hear from the NDP again....  they seem to have disappeared.  

Not a failure yet, not nearly.

 

We should hear from the NDP again in 2019, when they insure a huge Liberal Majority by picking them second on ranked ballots.  The Cons will do the same, since zero Cons will vote for the NDP as second choice.

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Time for the NDP or Greens, as the Liberals and Conservatives have proven they have no intention of changing the system.

2 hours ago, Boges said:

You JT are a Liar!

I prefer the term duplicity that overthere uses. Cullen chose to use the term 'liar', and that kind of rhetoric turned me off his otherwise very good critique of this action. It is hard not to feel a little sorry for Ms. Gould having this dumped into her lap, when it seems fairly clear that she was handed a new portfolio with this decision already part of it. I didn't catch question period, was JT there to be grilled?

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The FPTP system was only undemocratic and unfair when the Liberals weren't winning under it. Now that they are, well... it's all good!

Edited by Argus

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11 minutes ago, overthere said:

Gould and Monsef before her are just doing what they are told to do by the PMO. 

2 women thrown under the bus the our feminist leader.

Edited by PIK
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17 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Time for the NDP or Greens, as the Liberals and Conservatives have proven they have no intention of changing the system.

I prefer the term duplicity that overthere uses. Cullen chose to use the term 'liar', and that kind of rhetoric turned me off his otherwise very good critique of this action. It is hard not to feel a little sorry for Ms. Gould having this dumped into her lap, when it seems fairly clear that she was handed a new portfolio with this decision already part of it. I didn't catch question period, was JT there to be grilled?

Honestly this moderate liberal shtick is just such garbage, it was in fact a lie, ultimately the liberals only wanted reform if they were going to get the reform they preferred, not the reform Canadians preferred, when they realized that a ranked ballot wasn't in the offing they killed it.  They lied. Just like they lied about UNDRIP, just like they lied about the deficit, just like they lied about that cap on indigenous spending, home mail delivery, small business taxes, balance budgets, etc.  They lied with election reform to be more appealing to NDP voters just like they lied about UNDRIP to get more native voters. 

Yes, he was there, and he said some really stupid things, like not wanting election reform because it's not good for Canadians...after he told us we had to have it, he also basically admitted that it was ranked ballot or bust, but you go ahead and spin for them.

Edited by poochy
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Just now, PIK said:

2 women thrown under the bus the our feminist leader.

?? Monsef still in Cabinet, Gould newly arrived in Cabinet.  It doesn't matter that you can see the strings attached to their jaws when they speak, this is about optics not reality.  Trudeaus Diversity ScoreCard is still fine.

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Bull. He is using women as a prop to make himself look good. And Monsef was rewarded for being thrown under the bus and she is to daft to realize it. Gould been put into a bad situation with this mess. How many other liberals that could do monsef's job ,but yet trudeau still gives her another post. Nothing better then that to cause division in the ranks.

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18 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Time for the NDP or Greens, as the Liberals and Conservatives have proven they have no intention of changing the system.

 

Only the savagely deluded  believe that the NDP would opt for prop rep if they had a majority govt.

 

The proof of that?  The NDP have had numerous majority governments in several provinces.  None of them have implemented prop rep.  Zero.  Why? Same reason as Trudeau: they won't risk going back to a minority.

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Just now, PIK said:

Bull. He is using women as a prop to make himself look good. And Monsef was rewarded for being thrown under the bus and she is to daft to realize it. Gould been put into a bad situation with this mess. How many other liberals that could do monsef's job ,but yet trudeau still gives her another post. Nothing better then that to cause division in the ranks.

Yes he  is  using women  as props, but that is far different than throwing them under the bus as you claimed.

 

Now men under the bus, yes: Dion and McCallum lately....

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Am I allowed to call Trudeau a lying piece of scum, or does that break forum rules? Because it's pretty obvious the guy is consistently a liar. And will lie in order to attain power.

 

Only 10 billion dollar deficits - lied.
25000 Syrian refugees by end of 2015 - lied.
No CO2 tax - lied.
2015 being the last election with FPTP - lied.

 

Doesn't really matter what your positions on these issues are. You can't trust anything the LPC promises.

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2 hours ago, The_Squid said:

It's a major failure...   should drive a bunch of votes to the NDP for people who care about the issue, assuming we ever hear from the NDP again....  they seem to have disappeared.  

Thats what happens when you vote anything but harper.....those NDP'ers shoring up the liberal ranks, because we could not stomach another 4 years of Harper......And now they have to life with their decision......

Hear them..I can hear them from here.......can't you hear they're screams, liberals are being called everything but white assholes....wait from the corner out it came "white assholes"....there you have it folks, liberals light another fire under you ass....flames are getting higher......hows that song go down , down , down my ring of fire.....the flames are getting higher.....could not of happen to a nicer bunch of guys.....but hey he has a good head of hair....

Edited by Army Guy

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29 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Am I allowed to call Trudeau a lying piece of scum, or does that break forum rules?

Yes, it does break the forum rules, although as it is not against someone that is identified as right winged that faux pas will probably be exempt or ignored.

I think however using the term 'liar' defeats your point. As I suggested earlier duplicity is much better. Perhaps you might want to use deceived, or coward. I think they all are valid observations. A lie however is not a factual assessment, because this was a broken promise which is bad and he should be held to account for. I am not trying to paint it as any less important to an actual lie, just different.

27 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thats what happens when you vote anything but harper

Sorry, but Harper's record is far worse. You have every right to complain about Trudeau as having failed here, but to pretend that Harper is better is completely wrong.

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1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Sorry, but Harper's record is far worse. You have every right to complain about Trudeau as having failed here, but to pretend that Harper is better is completely wrong.

Which promise of this scale did Harper or his government repeat, according to Tom Mulcair, 1800+ times and the refuse to try to follow through on?  This was a, and you could argue the marquee promise of this govt, they could't get it their way with ranked ballots, so now they don't want it at all.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-scuttled-electoral-reform-betrays-those-who-saw-trudeau-as-antidote-to-political-cynicism

Remember how this guy was supposed to finally be the change politics needed, well right from the start that hasn't been the case, they are liars and they want to be in power, at least some of them are honest about their cynicism, Harper didn't pretend he was trying to change the world, he for example didn't lie to native people across the country about UNDRIP, Trudeau lied to get the votes, then told them no, and he was far better financially for most of us than this guy is, and clearly no more of a liar than Trudeau is either.

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1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, it does break the forum rules, although as it is not against someone that is identified as right winged that faux pas will probably be exempt or ignored.

I think however using the term 'liar' defeats your point. As I suggested earlier duplicity is much better. Perhaps you might want to use deceived, or coward. I think they all are valid observations. A lie however is not a factual assessment, because this was a broken promise which is bad and he should be held to account for. I am not trying to paint it as any less important to an actual lie, just different.

Sorry, but Harper's record is far worse. You have every right to complain about Trudeau as having failed here, but to pretend that Harper is better is completely wrong.

Ahem: harpers record:

gst cut - check

stupid child tax - check

income trust - fail

tfsa - check

income splitting - check

balance budget after deficit forced by coalition- check mate

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1 hour ago, blueblood said:

Ahem: harpers record:

gst cut - check

stupid child tax - check

income trust - fail

tfsa - check

income splitting - check

balance budget after deficit forced by coalition- check mate

Even income trust was because the situation changed substantially. Large corporations were using them as a loophole to declare themselves as income trusts to avoid paying taxes. When the conditions change, so must the solutions.

 

In all seriousness, it's difficult to find another Canadian politician whose record of doing what he said he would is as strong as Harper's was.

Edited by Bryan

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