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Army Guy

Another USA warning to NATO members.....

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3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Can't make [enough] money rigging the mortgage market at the moment, lets try and up our income from the arms race.

 

You mean like that $15 billion Canadian contract with the very progressive Saudi government ?

Maybe use some of the tax revenue on Canadian Forces instead of illegal drug injection sites ?

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On 2/21/2017 at 8:46 AM, Argus said:

Because encouraging dictators to spend less on their mliitary always works out so well...

The reason the West spends so much more on their military is largely because of personnel costs. The Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, Iranians, etc., don't pay very high salaries or benefits. They don't need to as they all have the draft. So that huge additional cost the West puts into its military doesn't translate into more tanks, ships or airplanes, nor more people. It just translates into higher paid soldiers.

 

We were able to work with the Soviets to mutually reduce our nuclear arsenals before idiots in the east and west started saber rattling and starting or fueling wars in the middle east, withdrawing from ABM treaties, etc.

And never mind encouraging despotic regimes to spend less... We are actually SUPPLYING them with weapons.

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I think Trump's trouble with New START is that Russia continues to develop newer ICBMs on mobile launchers with increasing numbers of MIRV warheads. Each RV (holding the MIRVs) is counted as one warhead for the old START Treaty, if I recall. The US hasn't built a new ICBM in decades.

Same goes for the Russian bomber fleet...each counts as one warhead, if I recall correctly under START. All Russian bombers now carry multiple rotary cruise missile launchers as well as options for the conventional method...bombs away! Russia still maintains a big bomber fleet.

Edited by DogOnPorch
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Ok, lets say the countries not paying their share  so to speak said to NATO,  We are not spending any more to you and if this isn't satisfactory to u, then we will withdrawal and u will have less money and assistance, which do u want? By  raising more money NATO will always be at war with some country because war is big business for SOME countries. Too many people, especially children have died and some of the ME countries look worse than Germany  at the end of WW2.

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54 minutes ago, Topaz said:

Ok, lets say the countries not paying their share  so to speak said to NATO,  We are not spending any more to you and if this isn't satisfactory to u, then we will withdrawal and u will have less money and assistance, which do u want? By  raising more money NATO will always be at war with some country because war is big business for SOME countries. Too many people, especially children have died and some of the ME countries look worse than Germany  at the end of WW2.

 

Great idea!    So when is deadbeat Canada leaving NATO and NORAD ?    Somebody else wants Canada's parking space.

 

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19 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, Russia can go piss up the very same rope for the very same reason.

Without a US-backed NATO, Russians will piss you.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No, the only pissing going on around here is in the fear-filled panties of right-wing conservatives.

World history provides justification for said fear.  Ask the poles...

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We give a lot to NATO in blood and money and trump knows that.

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14 minutes ago, PIK said:

We give a lot to NATO in blood and money and trump knows that.

America causes more blood and wasted treasure than every other NATO member combined and Trump is as oblivious to it as his stupid country. 

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

America causes more blood and wasted treasure than every other NATO member combined and Trump is as oblivious to it as his stupid country. 

 

Then why do more nations want to join NATO, while present deadbeat nations refuse to leave ?    Sure sounds "stupid".

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On 2/21/2017 at 11:48 PM, ?Impact said:

Except of course the increased spending was $10 billion, and it is supposed to be an investment over a few years to build infrastructure to increase our future capabilities. You are confusing a predicted, and inflated, deficit with spending - two very different things.

The best way to treat our soldiers is no more stupid missions like Afghanistan, Libya, etc.

 

Now there is an idea with no traction at all, lets not send them to places like Afghanistan.....Who is not going to send them...The government....Citizens.....Who.... 

i remember my first tour to Afghanistan, Thousands were lined up along the fences in trenton Ont , 3.30 am cheering us on, shouting things like get some, show them goat herders who is boss...The very fact that the Majority of Canadians were in favor of the early Afghan mission....and that would continue until we moved south into Kanadar.....once s steady supply of deed soldiers started returning home.....that is when people shut it down.....Yes they had started to voice opinions about camouflage and open air Ilitis jeeps, But every dog and pony show that DND did for politicians, soldiers would freely voice their opinions, we need Transport helos, attack helos, to reduce the number one killer of Canadian soldiers, IED's .....what was the return answer ....lack of funding.....until the point they :the government " where forced to rent, "Russian" helos, which no one really knew if they were going to fall out of the air or not..... then we leased some American helos CH 47D, then we bought some, they were delivered well after we had exited Afghanistan..... As for attack helos....well we had the Griffons....limited to how much weight they could carry due to armour, and wpns....so no extra personal......

And once we were there , Canada just forgot about them, with no support from the citizens , funding for equipment dried up....soldiers got bent over the table, and stripped of everything.....I remember it got to the point we the soldiers were funding things like building new fire halls, clinics, and schools out of donations from soldiers own pockets.....at the mid way point Afghan stopped being Canada's mission.....and became DND's....they were paying out the bills, they were doing all the work, without support for back home, all Canadians were interested in was POW mistreatment made by a professor who was not even in Ottawa, attacks by diplomatic corp, because it was a DND mission, the diplomats had all screwed off under ground....after the last minister died in a IED attack....

My point here is WHO is not going to send troops into places like these....the government .....Ya right......the citizens.....they don't give a rats ass....

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The question here is What are Canada's options , get on board with NATO Requests and come up with a 10 year plan to be at 2 % GDP......Or rethink our defensive commitments, which would cut Canada away from the grown up tabler totally....At least for the NATO, NORAD tables....but also our other alliances such as the US, UK , Australia, New Zealand, Can defensive pack.... Leaving us with what just the UN, there is an option.....not...

Edited by Army Guy

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20 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Great idea!    So when is deadbeat Canada leaving NATO and NORAD ?    Somebody else wants Canada's parking space.

 

Canada belongs to the British Commonwealth and we do have partners there and like said, IF the USA would stop doing "our interest" we wouldn't have so many wars.

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1 minute ago, Topaz said:

Canada belongs to the British Commonwealth....

 

I know...Canada would rather buy the Queen a new hat than decent kit for Canadian Forces...so much cheaper.

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18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thousands were lined up along the fences in trenton Ont , 3.30 am cheering us on, shouting things like get some, show them goat herders who is boss...

I can tell you I was not there. I was against Afghanistan from long before, but yes there were all sorts of calls for bombing those goat herders back to the 7th century. Like I do today, I was then trying to voice an opposition to those vocal masses. Trenton/Bellville is a military town, so it is hard to say how representative those voices were of mainstream Canadians compared to the family & close neighbours to those who were being sent on a mission and expressing their direct support. It is always hard to tell the mainstream opinion from the vocal masses, and we don't get asked in this pseudo democracy we run under. I don't know what polling was done in the early days, I know that there were a lot of polls around 2008 timeframe that showed Canadians against the mission, where Americans didn't really turn until 2014 or so. A big part of the problem was the statements coming out of the Whitehouse that Americans and Canadians alike bought into. Remember the perception was we were going into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. 

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8 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

I can tell you I was not there. I was against Afghanistan from long before, but yes there were all sorts of calls for bombing those goat herders back to the 7th century. Like I do today, I was then trying to voice an opposition to those vocal masses.

 

But it wasn't just vocal masses...it was Canada's ruling government and Parliament as well, cheering on the A-stan mission as far more legal and moral than the invasion of Iraq, which had yet to even happen.    Canada couldn't do both, so Afghanistan it would be.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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9 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I can tell you I was not there. I was against Afghanistan from long before, but yes there were all sorts of calls for bombing those goat herders back to the 7th century. Like I do today, I was then trying to voice an opposition to those vocal masses. Trenton/Bellville is a military town, so it is hard to say how representative those voices were of mainstream Canadians compared to the family & close neighbours to those who were being sent on a mission and expressing their direct support. It is always hard to tell the mainstream opinion from the vocal masses, and we don't get asked in this pseudo democracy we run under. I don't know what polling was done in the early days, I know that there were a lot of polls around 2008 timeframe that showed Canadians against the mission, where Americans didn't really turn until 2014 or so. A big part of the problem was the statements coming out of the Whitehouse that Americans and Canadians alike bought into. Remember the perception was we were going into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. 

Sure i might buy the trenton is a military base idea........but to find thousands of airforce base personal and their families to show support at 3.30 am for a bunch of Army dudes.... might be stretching it a little.....anyways the support was their , in the media, across the country, to support my statement .....WHo is going to ensure our nation does not send us to another Afghanistan, the liberals....not likely they have sent Troops into all the hotspots across the globe and still sending more, if and when the decide.....And we already know where we stand amongst the majority of Canadians.....at the back of the bus.....which has been shown time and time again.....this is not something new, soldiers are not just discovering it now, we have known for years, decades....The message however was received loud and clear during the Afghanistan conflict, and it stings a little....

Because despite what ever is said or done to our troops ....our nations military will always and i say again always be there for Canadians when ever they are needed....There is no dropping the rope because it is hockey night, or X-mas, or my birthday.....there is no saying it is to expensive, or we can't afford that, its It is always AYE ready AYE....hoorah....And they support every Canadian, including you, eyeball, and Squid....every last one of you....not because we work for you, because we don't, DND works for the government in charge....It's is because your Canadian, and we have always had the your back.....Because it is built into our honor /ethic's code of conduct....

Edited by Army Guy

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On 2/22/2017 at 7:29 PM, blueblood said:

World history provides justification for said fear.  Ask the poles...

That was coming up on a century ago, before MAD doctrine was in place. Its rather unlikely that any of the major powers will engage in open war in todays world. They all know the earth would be scorched on both sides.

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21 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I can tell you I was not there. I was against Afghanistan from long before, but yes there were all sorts of calls for bombing those goat herders back to the 7th century.

At the time of the attack on the World Trade Center Bin Laden's Al Quaeda group were a major security element affiliated with the Taliban. They had some ten thousand fighters there supporting the government. So when the responsibility for the WTC bombing was traced to them we should have done what, exactly? Sent a policeman over there to arrest him? Remember that the Taliban refused to arrest or send him to the US. We are treaty bound to respond with the US to any attack on them, and this certainly qualified.

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