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Altai

You are ruled by Sharia

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

No.

What we agree with is allowing others to make their own decisions.

This is why there are protections under the law if you CHOOSE to marry before 16 - your parents would need to sign papers and you would be questioned as to whether you are doing this of your own free will or not.


Kids are not able to make true decisions most of the time. What a backward opinion this is. You are really a backward people. What kind of a mother would allow her kids to marry just because of she/he want to marry. This is disgusting. 

I remember you said months ago in another topic that "only few kids know what they want". Now you contradicted with yourself and you say that "we allow them to make their own decisions." This is why you are in my ignore list and you will stay there forever.
 

Few children know what they want to do for the rest of their lives.  

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Just now, Altai said:


Kids are not able to make true decisions most of the time. What a backward opinion this is. You are really a backward people. What kind of a mother would allow her kids to marry just because of she/he want to marry. This is disgusting. 

I remember you said months ago in another topic that "only few kids know what they want". Now you contradicted with yourself and you say that "we allow them to make their own decisions." This is why you are in my ignore list and you will stay there forever.
 

It's very difficult to explain allowing others the freedom to choose, to someone who doesn't agree with that freedom.

There is no contradiction in my statements.

Edited by Goddess

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1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Then you agree with 17, the legal age in Turkey? The average age of marriage for women in Turkey is 24, or 4 years sooner than in Canada.

Nope legal marriage age in Turkiye is 18. If your familly allows you to marry, you can marry at 17. You can marry at 16 too but there have to be some extraordinary conditions. 
 

 

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Just now, Altai said:

Nope legal marriage age in Turkiye is 18. If your familly allows you to marry, you can marry at 17. You can marry at 16 too but there have to be some extraordinary conditions. 
 

 

I know someone who married at age 15.  Her parents had many discussions with her about it, and finally agreed to sign the papers to allow her to marry.

28 years later, they are still married and happy.  Granted, it doesn't always work out like that but do you understand that it was her CHOICE and that our laws provide protections in such cases?

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I know someone who married at age 15.  Her parents had many discussions with her about it, and finally agreed to sign the papers to allow her to marry.

28 years later, they are still married and happy.  Granted, it doesn't always work out like that but do you understand that it was her CHOICE and that our laws provide protections in such cases?


and there are millions of examples of it that a little girl runs away with a boy older than her and destroys all her life. Because she is just a child and "just a few childs know what they want to do for the rest of their lifes", many of them are not mentally mature and they are quite confused and quick and faulty decision makers. 


Allowing a kid to make a choice which will affact all her life is not freedom, its just primitiveness. 

So if these kids are able to make true decisions at these ages, why MPs elected age in Canada and many other countries is 18 ???
 

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All of our choices affect our lives.  No matter what age we are.

I don't understand how you believe it's NOT okay to allow a 15 year old to make a life choice (for which she will have to live with the consequences of her own choice) but it's OKAY to force 6 year olds to marry......

 

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57 minutes ago, Goddess said:

So these are actually adult women who are making the choice to marry these men?

child brides.JPG

 

56 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

When this mass child marriage happened in Gaza, the defenders of Islam were quick with the BS stories about how they aren't the real brides...just stand-ins...etc, etc.

Probably still use that defense...

That's one of the saddest things I've ever seen that didn't actually involve death or dismemberment.

Are you guys sure that's legit?

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3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

That's one of the saddest things I've ever seen that didn't actually involve death or dismemberment.

Are you guys sure that's legit?

Google pictures of Muslim child brides.  There's tons.

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8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Google pictures of Muslim child brides.  There's tons.

I'll take your word for it.  I don't want my wife to see that in the history.

Actually, I was aware of the custom of arranged marriage with minors, I just didn't think they were that minor...

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6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

Actually, I was aware of the custom of arranged marriage with minors, I just didn't think they were that minor...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264729/Child-bride-13-dies-internal-injuries-days-arranged-marriage-Yemen.html

 

 

Quote

 

The issue of Yemen's child brides got widespread attention three years ago when an eight-year-old girl boldly went by herself to a courtroom and demanded a judge dissolve her marriage to a man in his 30s. 

 

She eventually won a divorce, and legislators began looking at ways to curb the practice.

 

In September, a 12-year-old Yemeni child-bride died after struggling for three days in labour to give birth, a local human rights organisation said.

 

Yemen once set 15 as the minimum age for marriage, but parliament annulled that law in the 1990s, saying parents should decide when a daughter marries.


 

I would think that this going on in the Muslim world would be more offensive to Altai than Canada's laws, but I guess not.
 

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Today when I was travelling on the local-train which goes past the main Finnish international airport I came across a lady who was at lost where to go and where to buy tickets for the train.

It turned out that she has not lived in Finland for 30 years and is now living in Turkey with her husband. I didn't ask but somehow I assumed that her husband must then be Turkish, otherwise that wouldn't make any sense living in Turkey, would it.

However, I thought that it was very uplifting as earlier it has always been the case that if the husband is from a country like Turkey and the wife is from Western-Europe the couple lives in the wife's home-country.

She said she lives in Istanbul which of course must be another universe from the rest of Turkey.

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44 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'll take your word for it.  I don't want my wife to see that in the history.

Actually, I was aware of the custom of arranged marriage with minors, I just didn't think they were that minor...

Arranged marriages with children have been common throughout history and around the world.   They were not usually consummated till the kids were in their early to mid-teens.  This seems young to us, but at the time it was 'middle-age' for most people.   It's generally believed that Aisha was somewhere between 14 and 19 when her marriage with Muhammed was consummated and so they were absolutely within cultural norms of the time. 

Its still true that there are too many child brides in the world but most countries set minimum  legal age with and without parental consent.   With parental consent is usually around 15 or 16, but some countries allow 12 year olds to marry, including some States and quite a few non-Muslim countries.   Iran allows marriage as young as 9, with judge's consent and a few countries have no minimum age, not because they are Muslim but probably because they don't think its necessary.

Muslim majority countries are generally in line with Western countries with minimum marriage set at mid-teens and some, such as Egypt, have set it at 18 or older to be in line with Child Not Bride's standard.   

Legal standards are one thing, but social norms are another.  Poorer and less developed countries tend to have younger girls marrying or co-habitating in lieu of marriage, regardless of the dominant religion, while countries with higher education and more wealth have fewer young marriages/co-habitation.

So once again, the anti-Muslim group have taken a single fact and embellished it to paint Muslims as being a cult of pedophiles.

Now watch as someone drops by to accuse me of defending pedophiles and child marriage because I cited history and fact instead of buying into their hysterical and fear-driven BS.

 

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2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

When this mass child marriage happened in Gaza, the defenders of Islam were quick with the BS stories about how they aren't the real brides...just stand-ins...etc, etc.

Probably still use that defense...

I agree its ridiculous that they would use children as stand-in brides, if that's what is supposed to be going on here.   

Snopes says its not.  This is indeed a picture of a mass wedding at which the adult brides were present; however custom dictates that the brides not be the center of attention.  The little girls are relatives of the wedding participants.  

Snopes also contains an article from the reporter who covered the event debunking the whole "child-bride/stand-in" story.

Edited by dialamah
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24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Arranged marriages with children have been common throughout history and around the world.   They were not usually consummated till the kids were in their early to mid-teens.  This seems young to us, but at the time it was 'middle-age' for most people.   It's generally believed that Aisha was somewhere between 14 and 19 when her marriage with Muhammed was consummated and so they were absolutely within cultural norms of the time. 

Its still true that there are too many child brides in the world but most countries set minimum  legal age with and without parental consent.   With parental consent is usually around 15 or 16, but some countries allow 12 year olds to marry, including some States and quite a few non-Muslim countries.   Iran allows marriage as young as 9, with judge's consent and a few countries have no minimum age, not because they are Muslim but probably because they don't think its necessary.

Muslim majority countries are generally in line with Western countries with minimum marriage set at mid-teens and some, such as Egypt, have set it at 18 or older to be in line with Child Not Bride's standard.   

Legal standards are one thing, but social norms are another.  Poorer and less developed countries tend to have younger girls marrying or co-habitating in lieu of marriage, regardless of the dominant religion, while countries with higher education and more wealth have fewer young marriages/co-habitation.

So once again, the anti-Muslim group have taken a single fact and embellished it to paint Muslims as being a cult of pedophiles.

Now watch as someone drops by to accuse me of defending pedophiles and child marriage because I cited history and fact instead of buying into their hysterical and fear-driven BS.

 

 

1- According to the teachings of the Imam's she was in fact married at age 6, and consummated at age 9. Top Cleric Confirms AGE

Now, we have come a long way in the name of modernization and the natural process today should be for the parents to nurture the child for development and they can marry over the age of 18 when and WHO they choose. This is not about Alt-Right, we are learning about each other, I am telling you things that I dislike about the religion that will not work with this culture and legal system and you are telling me it will. Tarek Fatah (modern, moderate Muslim)  takes the time to teach and speak to the west about Islam vs Islamists and educate people, he is highly respected and has been giving a high position within the Canadian Community because he feels he is family and we all feel he is family. 

Now if you are progressive within your culture/ belief / legal systems why do Imam's and Clerics issue death calls out on moderate Muslims who are the best role models supporting secularism and peace? (Tarek Fatah warns the Canadian Senate 2014 )

Many Muslims have lived in Canada, co-existence worked very well no one even noticed each other, no issues arose in the news, no issues in this community... happily worked side-by-side, then suddenly a motion is put forward possibly restricting free speech (2016)? Where did that come from, where was the information that there were issues going on... where were the police reports?  Happy people went back to living their lives thinking nothing more of this... then tragedy strikes (2017), 6 dead in a mosque! We went from not having any issues to an extremely horrific act, I am not religious, I grieved... members of our Canadian Family died.

The Canadian way has always been to talk, discover, support victims and STOP violence.

We have had mass killings before in Canada, people killed because they were women or had a belief system or the person that was the killer had mentally broken down with mental health issues. (MASS KILLINGS IN CANADA)

You can call me the Alt-Right, I am not, I simply have an opinion on ALL religions... One can speak on religions in Canada today, but tomorrow this motion may make it illegal to discuss Islam which is Dangerous when the extremists that are the cause of the wars today are Islamic Extremists and that number may be as high as 300 million out of 1.6 billion people on the planet. And here you want people to trust blindly and not discuss things in a rational way..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, seraphim said:

And here you want people to trust blindly and not discuss things in a rational way..... 

I don't understand why we can't discuss these issues like adults instead of children trying to justify bad actions with "But....but....but.....So-and-So did the same thing !!!"

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17 minutes ago, seraphim said:

Many Muslims have lived in Canada, co-existence worked very well no one even noticed each other, no issues arose in the news, no issues in this community... happily worked side-by-side, then suddenly a motion is put forward possibly restricting free speech (2016)? Where did that come from, where was the information that there were issues going on... where were the police reports?  Happy people went back to living their lives thinking nothing more of this... then tragedy strikes (2017), 6 dead in a mosque! We went from not having any issues to an extremely horrific act, I am not religious, I grieved... members of our Canadian Family died.

The link between the extremist right wing with a pulpit and the murder of the 6 Muslims in Quebec city is far more solid than any link to M-103. Look to the likes of Marine Le Pen, Donald Trump, and Ezra Levant. 

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16 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

The link between the extremist right wing with a pulpit and the murder of the 6 Muslims in Quebec city is far more solid than any link to M-103. Look to the likes of Marine Le Pen, Donald Trump, and Ezra Levant. 

The link between many thousands of murders and a Muslim with a pulpit is equally solid, I suppose.  Perhaps we should ban Islam.

Just kidding.  Just introduce a motion condemning it.

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1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Just introduce a motion condemning it.

That would be an interesting take. I support freedom of religion because of the history of trying to ban it. Is condemning religion incompatible with freedom of religion? Perhaps it is time to treat religion officially like alcohol.

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Just now, ?Impact said:

That would be an interesting take. I support freedom of religion because of the history of trying to ban it. Is condemning religion incompatible with freedom of religion? Perhaps it is time to treat religion officially like alcohol.

I support freedom of religion for the individual.  It seems impossible for many individuals to refrain from applying that "freedom" to others, who don't necessarily want them to. That should be roundly condemned.  I would support warning labels.

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3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

 Are you guys sure that's legit?

No it's not legit.  It's just more lies.

 

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/masswedding.asp

"Tim Marshall, a reporter who covered the event for Sky News, later posted a denunciatory blog entry condemning the Internet-circulated claims of “child brides” as nothing more than uninformed, scurrilous rumor-mongering"

 

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24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No it's not legit.  It's just more lies.

 

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/masswedding.asp

"Tim Marshall, a reporter who covered the event for Sky News, later posted a denunciatory blog entry condemning the Internet-circulated claims of “child brides” as nothing more than uninformed, scurrilous rumor-mongering"

 

There are no child brides then?

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In the UK girls as young as 12 have been smuggled in to be brides of men in the Muslim community, according to a 2004 report in The Guardian. Girls trying to escape this child marriage can face death because this breaks the honor code of her husband and both families.[194]

Bummer.  UK too. What's a Brit to think?

 

Edited by bcsapper

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3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

In the UK girls as young as 12 have been smuggled in to be brides of men in the Muslim community, according to a 2004 report in The Guardian. Girls trying to escape this child marriage can face death because this breaks the honor code of her husband and both families.[194]

Bummer.  UK too. What's a Brit to think?

 

In before Diahlmah arrives to compare this with some Christian cult like the Davidians. 

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Quote

The report also showed that 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India.[

Quote

UNICEF reported that 28.8% of marriages in Nepal were child marriages as of 2011

Quote

According to UNICEF, Africa has the highest incidence rates of child marriage

No Christian cult, but some samples from the wiki page...

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