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May seeks snap election

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If the Tories go too right or Labour go too left they become "unelectable". So elections are won in the middle-ground, which basically means whoever wins they are just puppets to the bankers. Hence the falling turnouts.

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On 6/15/2017 at 10:34 PM, Argus said:

You're not likely to have such unanimity among taxpayers. I'd like to point out that some who pay income taxes pay very little, whereas others pay a lot. But if you take the ones who don't pay any income tax and say that the Tories will get virtually no support from this group, then it doesn't become very hard for other groups to win out. It's not a surprise that Labour led greatly among youth, who largely pay no income taxes. I mean, this is basic behavioural science here. If you're not paying taxes but instead benefit from government spending then you'll always vote in whoever wants the most government spending. It's no accident you always find the public service unions supporting the Left wing parties that want to expand government services, not the Right wing ones who want to cut them back.

Except the Tory-supporting generation of pensioners are those that inherited the proceeds of post-war Britain at its peak and have left nothing but debt and obligations to the young. Have you heard of the Tories triple-lock? Where the government reassures pensioners they will see index-linked rises and won't, in any way, be touched by modern troubles, whilst young people are being asked to work longer, for significantly less pay, fund their significantly smaller pension to a greater degree, all in order to pay off the debt from the final-salary pensions that are offered nowhere nowadays as they're deemed unaffordable? So the net effect is today's pensioners are now earning more weekly than those in full-time work! These were also the generation that had cheap houses in ready supply, and watched as the housing bubble grew and grew and locked out successive generations from the property ladder, leaving them with a property quadrupled in value that they can sell and downsize to live a very comfortable retirement. Or let to the young who can't afford a mortgage at extortionate rates because they don't have rent caps like they did. We won't mention the £30K tuition debt they never faced or the high-interest rates they enjoyed, either.

So: Money to feather wealthy pensioners nests for 7 years. Money to lower corporation tax substantially to the lowest in G20. Money for tax cuts for the wealthy. Money for a costly nuclear deterrent. Money to substantially reorganise the NHS in a manner that makes it easier to privatise. Money to sell off state assets at below market value. Money for more interventions in the Middle East. 

No money for police or the NHS care. Also, again: Labour won every working-age bracket.

Edited by DBlow

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May's government is now a hostage to the demands of the tiny Northern-Irish DUP-party. The party of the late Ian Paisley. Not enviable for the Tories to be dependant on those bigots.

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Excuse me but, the HARD left?

Don't lefties just get more sensitive and softer the farther left they go?

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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Excuse me but, the HARD left?

Don't lefties just get more sensitive and softer the farther left they go?

Hard-left is term that's nearly forty years old in the UK for the reformist Marxist (class struggle) wing of the Labour movement (by their definition being involved within Labour seperated them from the revolutionary far-left). You'd certainly be the first to describe, say, Dennis Skinner and the rest of the NUM as soft and sensitive.

Edited by DBlow

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For some reason during the past 10-15 years all of a sudden unlike before when the left was against the EU/EEC nowadays being anti-EU is considered as fascism and therefore the left must support the EU and Brexit was something similar to the rise ofr Hitler.

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23 hours ago, -TSS- said:

For some reason during the past 10-15 years all of a sudden unlike before when the left was against the EU/EEC nowadays being anti-EU is considered as fascism and therefore the left must support the EU and Brexit was something similar to the rise ofr Hitler.

The Lefts opposition to the EU stemmed from the belief the EU would shackle any incoming socialist government to market economics / rules, and over the past decades (particularly after the 1992 defeat, and subsequent rebranding) this has looked to be increasingly unobtainable anyway. The marginalising of the hard-left following the heavy loss of the 1975 referendum and more importantly the 1983 election, helped by a leadership openly hostile to them, has whittled down their representation to a tiny minority. With the hard-left being so marginalised, the Leave campaign was overwhelmingly dominated by the Tory Right and UKIP, whose ambitions for Britain were to stop immigration, scrap the Human Rights Act and turn the UK economically into Switzerland, it was very easy for the Left to see this as a vote for right-wing nationalism.

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On 2017-07-08 at 8:57 PM, DBlow said:

The Lefts opposition to the EU stemmed from the belief the EU would shackle any incoming socialist government to market economics / rules, and over the past decades (particularly after the 1992 defeat, and subsequent rebranding) this has looked to be increasingly unobtainable anyway. The marginalising of the hard-left following the heavy loss of the 1975 referendum and more importantly the 1983 election, helped by a leadership openly hostile to them, has whittled down their representation to a tiny minority. With the hard-left being so marginalised, the Leave campaign was overwhelmingly dominated by the Tory Right and UKIP, whose ambitions for Britain were to stop immigration, scrap the Human Rights Act and turn the UK economically into Switzerland, it was very easy for the Left to see this as a vote for right-wing nationalism.

But isn't Labour divided on Brexit as well? The arguments seem less heated than on the Tory side but they are there. 

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A year ago Corbyn received a lot of criticism for what seemed to be a lacklustre campaign in favour of the remain-camp. Because of this many people think that he was secretly satisfied with the outcome of the referendum.

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On 7/16/2017 at 5:58 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

But isn't Labour divided on Brexit as well? The arguments seem less heated than on the Tory side but they are there. 

Yes, because for the first time in decades the parliamentary hard-left is no longer marginalised - the loss of the referendum caused the far more numerous parliamentary soft left (social democratic wing) of the Labour party to lose faith in Corbyn and spark mass resignations from cabinet, so to fill those vacancies Corbyn's shadow cabinet was dominated by the hard-left (socialist wing) and they've set the agenda since Corbyn comfortably won re-election as leader, especially so after he outperformed in the election. As detailed above, the hard-left is just as anti-EU as the hard-right, and whilst Corbyn was willing to sideline his Euroscepticism to gain leadership, focusing his battles on steering the party Left and democratising it, and reflected the program he won on by campaigning for a Remain vote, the loss of the referendum has changed everything. The soft left and Blairite right desperately want to reverse or at least ensure a soft Brexit, whereas the hard-left can't believe their luck and are quite content to see the government's Brexit plans through. 

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Perhaps the thing what decided the outcome of the Brexit-vote was Obama's visit to the UK and how he told them to vote for remain.

In almost any other country people would feel proud and privileged that the President of the United States comes over to give his advice but not so in the UK. There people thought that the foreigner was poking his nose where it doesn't belong by telling people how to vote.

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15 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Perhaps the thing what decided the outcome of the Brexit-vote was Obama's visit to the UK and how he told them to vote for remain.

In almost any other country people would feel proud and privileged that the President of the United States comes over to give his advice but not so in the UK. There people thought that the foreigner was poking his nose where it doesn't belong by telling people how to vote.

Partly Obama's fault by making it very easy for the pro-Brexit media to reduce his visit down to the soundbite that post-Brexit UK would be "back of the queue" for any future US trade deal, which would've immediately turned off the nationalist Right. Then there's the matter that a privileged foreigner talking about the benefits of the EU would have nothing to say to the anti-immigration working-class Labour voter, nor to the Eurosceptic socialists who regard him at best a useless liberal.

Edited by DBlow

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Brexit has also been dubbed as a vote of xenophobia and little-Englanders, perhaps for a good reason, but many people voted for Brexit for exactly opposite reason; why get shackled with the EU when there is the whole wide world out there for you to do business with without the EU getting its share in between.

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Obama can speak for himself and he doesn't matter any more as he is gone. The UK is never in the back of the queue when it comes to US-relations with other countries.

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I can honestly fathom what Boris Johnson is currently up to. The big lie about the £350mil a week for the NHS for EU referendum. The rift in the Tories is quite serious. He is intervening on Brexit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/sep/18/boris-johnson-brexit-theresa-may-trudeau-conservatives-split-over-boris-johnsons-brexit-article-as-backlash-continues-politics-live

 

Theresa May is currently visiting Canada and meets with Justin Trudeau. She is known for her weakness in her judgement.

 

Do you think Boris is doing this deliberately to get a sack and sit as a back benches to ridicule May's government. What do you think he is up to? Is he championing the Brexit where May and Davies have failed?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/17/boris-johnson-slapped-down-statistics-chief-fresh-350m-brexit-claim

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-350-million-tory-party-theresa-may-nhs-conservatives-foreign-secretary-a7952461.html

 

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On 6/16/2017 at 10:24 PM, DBlow said:

Except the Tory-supporting generation of pensioners are those that inherited the proceeds of post-war Britain at its peak and have left nothing but debt and obligations to the young.

Same here. Although I would quibble with 'left nothing'. They left a well-functioning society which is extremely well-off in economic terms if you compare it to the rest of the world. There's a reason all those migrants are flooding through places like Italy and Greece and Hungary trying to get north to the UK, and it's not the great weather.

On 6/16/2017 at 10:24 PM, DBlow said:

Have you heard of the Tories triple-lock? Where the government reassures pensioners they will see index-linked rises and won't, in any way, be touched by modern troubles, whilst young people are being asked to work longer, for significantly less pay, fund their significantly smaller pension to a greater degree, all in order to pay off the debt from the final-salary pensions that are offered nowhere nowadays as they're deemed unaffordable? So the net effect is today's pensioners are now earning more weekly than those in full-time work! These were also the generation that had cheap houses in ready

There is nothing you're writing here that would not apply equally to Canada. The world is an imperfect place. Yes, the boomers deserve to be castigated for borrowing so much. But is the solution to borrow more in order to leave the debt on the generations which are to follow? That seems to be the course we're following in Canada, at least. I don't think trying to get back towards a balanced budget is a bad thing.

On 6/16/2017 at 10:24 PM, DBlow said:

No money for police or the NHS care. Also, again: Labour won every working-age bracket.

Well those working age brackets might give a thought to some of Labour's policies which are certainly not going to help them, like opening the gates wide to immigration and letting migrants flood in. What do you think that's going to do to wages? Nationalizing industries? Yes, that sure worked in the past, didn't it? That produced industries that were bloated and incredibly inefficient, and had to be heavily subsidized by government. British industry was a generation behind its counterparts in Germany and America because you don't get innovation or change in a bloated bureaucratic environment. And when the house of cards inevitably collapsed who got hurt worst? The workers.

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It amazes me how could Boris Johnson ever become Mayor of a major cosmopolitan city like London as he was in favour of Brexit, the nightmare of the globalists. He was probably able to hide his views in a very witty way.

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On 2017-09-22 at 10:18 PM, -TSS- said:

It amazes me how could Boris Johnson ever become Mayor of a major cosmopolitan city like London as he was in favour of Brexit, the nightmare of the globalists. He was probably able to hide his views in a very witty way.

He's an entertainer. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/23/very-interesting-boris-johnson-brexit-treasury-select-committee

 

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The British are in an unenviable situation with an incompetent government at the helm but unelectable opposition as an alternative and with Brexit in the middle of negotiations of the most important event of the century. 

Would have been hard to think back in the 90's that someone could actually miss John Major as PM. He would be much better at negotiating a good deal than May will ever be.

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The Conservatives can’t agree on what sort of Brexit they want which means their negotiators have to fudge what they are doing in order to keep the Cabinet united:

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-slammed-for-calling-brexit-deal-statement-of-intent-11167642

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/06/david-davis-escapes-mps-criticism-over-lack-of-brexit-assessments

 

 

 

 

 

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My guess is that May will be out before the end of May(heh!). Who'll replace her? Hopefully not that Rees-Mogg  guy.

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