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Islam Is Peace

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There is ample evidence Islam is the religion of piece. A piece of you here, a piece of you over there...

I guess adherents should be good at jigsaw puzzles then? 

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1 hour ago, Motti said:

I guess adherents should be good at jigsaw puzzles then? 

With Jigsaw puzzles you tend to spend more time putting things back together.

Some of them, then. 

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What do I like about Islam... uh...
Family life, raising children in a safe nurturing environment, no, can't say I like the way they do that.
Importance of religious life, eg. separation of church vs. state? No, no. Too much emphasis on it, compulsively. Mandatory multiple prayer times daily, the practice of religious worship completely pervades each day. Next they have month-long rituals.
In my occupation I need my employee to have full and total concentration on the job, not needing to be interrupted constantly to find a prayer room and praise Allah. Go do that that later if you want. But otherwise you're a risk, and you make more mistakes than other people.
It's like not eating all day for a month, how is that affecting your concentration in a job where making mistakes has consequences? Not very positively.
Fashion, nope forget that.
Legal system, fairness in punishment for crimes, capital punishment, level of humanitarianism, no
Education standards in Islamic countries? Not exactly up to par. Education of the Koran is more important than pure academics.
Democracy supported? No. In fact the opposite, democracy demonized. Democracy is inherently "Anti-Islamic".

They built some nice looking mosques I guess. Not that I'd ever go there... I'd probably get my throat slit, right in front of that Mosque.

Edited by OftenWrong
added "level of humanitarianism"
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On 6/2/2017 at 6:32 AM, dialamah said:

ISIS Muslim Death Toll

Just four Muslims who died fighting against ISIS; there are many more.   But as the article also points out -- Western deaths are covered extensively, while Muslim deaths are not, and some of us assume Westerners are the only victims.  

Same holds true for these news stories:  None of them involve the killing of Westerners, so it's not news.

41 Muslim countries form alliance to fight ISIS and extremist groups.

Muslim leaders preach against ISIS', get death threats from ISIS

70000 Muslim clerics issue fatwa against ISIS and other terror groups.

100+ British Imams speak out against ISIS

There are plenty more examples of individuals, groups and Muslim leaders who are speaking out against ISIS - but if you aren't looking for it, you'll never find it.   Instead, you'll continue to assume that "Islam" is doing nothing.   But that's not the fault of Muslims; that's the fault of people who are too lazy or biased to look beyond Western headlines.

 

The problem with this is, you see ISIS (the bad guys) and then you think there's every other muslim (who are good).  You refuse to accept anything else...anything in between.  Do you really think these problems started with ISIS?  Or are you one of these who thinks George Bush started the muslims on the road to terrorism, maybe it was Carter in the 70's...or maybe it was in the 1950's that radical islamists began?

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7 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

 

Edited by DogOnPorch

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17 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

The problem with this is, you see ISIS (the bad guys) and then you think there's every other muslim (who are good).  You refuse to accept anything else...anything in between.  Do you really think these problems started with ISIS?  Or are you one of these who thinks George Bush started the muslims on the road to terrorism, maybe it was Carter in the 70's...or maybe it was in the 1950's that radical islamists began?

Agree with this, and it's one of the hardest points to get acknowledged.  There is a massive amount of stuff about Islam that ranges from the simply wrong to the utterly reprehensible, and it takes in the legal systems of entire countries. ISIS is simply the pinnacle of the barbarism.

Edited by bcsapper

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.....and the part that is not acknowledged is that good/bad are irrelevent in reality.  Peace/war is the only commodity that matters.  Do immigrants want to enter this country and aid in its heightened evolution as decided by the entire community......and do foreign entities wish to maintain a peace that can foster evolution within each community as they see fit.

This whole debate de-evolves when trying to apply worthless labels back and forth to justify actions.

Muslims can be good/bad, as viewed by us, all they want so long as rule of our law is followed and any foreign gov'ts, and we, maintain peace.

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Agree with this, and it's one of the hardest points to get acknowledged.  There is a massive amount of stuff about Islam that ranges from the simply wrong to the utterly reprehensible, and it takes in the legal systems of entire countries. ISIS is simply the pinnacle of the barbarism.

 

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58 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

.....and the part that is not acknowledged is that good/bad are irrelevent in reality.  Peace/war is the only commodity that matters.  Do immigrants want to enter this country and aid in its heightened evolution as decided by the entire community......and do foreign entities wish to maintain a peace that can foster evolution within each community as they see fit.

This whole debate de-evolves when trying to apply worthless labels back and forth to justify actions.

Muslims can be good/bad, as viewed by us, all they want so long as rule of our law is followed and any foreign gov'ts, and we, maintain peace.

 

With all due respect, I find that a bit incoherent.  I'm not at all sure of your point.

Edited by bcsapper

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Colour me embarassed.....I've seen you decipher Rue.

....condensed post:

I don't care about good/evil labels.  Following law in my country and maintaining peace between countries is all that is critical.  Everything else is rhetoric or superfluous.  Both sides.

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4 hours ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Colour me embarassed.....I've seen you decipher Rue.

....condensed post:

I don't care about good/evil labels.  Following law in my country and maintaining peace between countries is all that is critical.  Everything else is rhetoric or superfluous.  Both sides.

I just cherry pick sentences from Rue.  I have to work for a living, so I don't have the time to read his posts through.

Labels are just labels.  You don't have to call something evil, barbaric, etc.  Whether or not you do, or I do, does not change the fact of its existence.  Like I said in my post, it's a difficult thing to get acknowledged.

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.....but that is what the entire left/right messaging is.....you can't fight it/protect it unless you label it.  I don't give a rat's ass about Pew Research polls......believe everyone who isn't you is a heathen who will burn......just keep it in your head and we'll work out just fine.

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I just cherry pick sentences from Rue.  I have to work for a living, so I don't have the time to read his posts through.

Labels are just labels.  You don't have to call something evil, barbaric, etc.  Whether or not you do, or I do, does not change the fact of its existence.  Like I said in my post, it's a difficult thing to get acknowledged.

 

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7 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

.....but that is what the entire left/right messaging is.....you can't fight it/protect it unless you label it.  I don't give a rat's ass about Pew Research polls......believe everyone who isn't you is a heathen who will burn......just keep it in your head and we'll work out just fine.

 

The left/right messaging has got little to do with my point, which was this:

Quote

There is a massive amount of stuff about Islam that ranges from the simply wrong to the utterly reprehensible, and it takes in the legal systems of entire countries. ISIS is simply the pinnacle of the barbarism.

That's true.  Left or right.  No reason to keep that in my head.  It should be shouted from the highest rooftops.  I don't know any Pew research polls, but I do know that quote is true.

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12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Agree with this, and it's one of the hardest points to get acknowledged.  There is a massive amount of stuff about Islam that ranges from the simply wrong to the utterly reprehensible, and it takes in the legal systems of entire countries.

Some of the very worst are our most important allies.  That this is simply wrong and reprehensible is the hardest point to get acknowledged.

Quote

ISIS is simply the pinnacle of the barbarism.

Yes, definitely a Shining Beacon of our success at fostering so much of the utter complete chaos consuming much of the ME and surrounding region.

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11 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I just cherry pick sentences from Rue.  I have to work for a living, so I don't have the time to read his posts through.

 

I lost my cherries long ago. I h ate to tell you what you are picking. From the sounds of it  of maybe Bobby is wiping himself with it.

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So, through a mutual friend, I've met a Sufi Muslim on Facebook and I prefer his "take" on Islam.

The other day, he posted this, which I thought was interesting:

We had a good chat about it, but even he pointed out that he is viewed as a heretic and traitor by most other Muslims and feels in danger most times for how vocal he is about his views.

 

Quote

 

According to Hadith (words of Muhammad)
UNIVERSAL ISLAM is multi-dimensional & has 3 levels:

1. Exoteric Islam......(worth 3%)

2. Iman........................(2 & 3 are

3. Ihsan........................worth 97 %)

The sharia ("God's law" as deduced by early scholars) relates only to level 1.
It is the minor Islam element. Yet the scholars have made this 3% the whole of Islam.
The figure of 3% is derived from the fact that only about 200 verses of the Quran out of over 6600 relate to exoteric Islam/Fiqh.

Levels 2 & 3 relate to the MIND & HEART & are worth 97 %. This relates to inner intentions, Purity of the soul and divine nature.
This is the focus of Sufism - the essence of Islam.
Strangely this 97% of Universal Islam has been ignored by the traditional scholars. It's not been incorporated as within the shariah, the Divine Law. Extremely strange indeed!

 

 

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Quote from the Quran:

Quote

 

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship Allah.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.".

 

Anyone disgusted with this?  Well actually I lied, this is actually a quote from the Bible (I just replaced "Allah" with "God") from 1 Timothy 2.  Goes to show you how much interpretation and personal subjectivity have to do with how people practice what's in the Bible or Quran.

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13 hours ago, Goddess said:

So, through a mutual friend, I've met a Sufi Muslim on Facebook and I prefer his "take" on Islam.

The other day, he posted this, which I thought was interesting:

We had a good chat about it, but even he pointed out that he is viewed as a heretic and traitor by most other Muslims and feels in danger most times for how vocal he is about his views.

 

Quote

...Levels 2 & 3 relate to the MIND & HEART & are worth 97 %. This relates to inner intentions, Purity of the soul and divine nature.
This is the focus of Sufism - the essence of Islam.
Strangely this 97% of Universal Islam has been ignored by the traditional scholars. It's not been incorporated as within the shariah, the Divine Law. Extremely strange indeed!...

 

Not really if by traditional scholars you mean Islamic authorities.  No authority anywhere on the planet will tolerate their great unwashed thinking for themselves.

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7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Quote from the Quran:

Anyone disgusted with this?  Well actually I lied, this is actually a quote from the Bible (I just replaced "Allah" with "God") from 1 Timothy 2.  Goes to show you how much interpretation and personal subjectivity have to do with how people practice what's in the Bible or Quran.

That's the whole point. It's the interpreter that kills you, not the word. 

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Suck & Blow.

So is it the Islamist killer or is it Islam that is the problem?  I thought you've said both but this statement seems in conflict to me or when you say Islam do you mean islamist imams when you say Islam?

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

That's the whole point. It's the interpreter that kills you, not the word. 

 

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I do find the slogan "Islam is peace" that's being shoved down our throats all the time to be both a farce and frankly, offensive.

Anyone with a history book and a newspaper knows that Islam is not peace.  The various groups of Muslims have never even had any peace amongst themselves, so trying to pass it off as a "peaceful" religion is an offensive farce.

Are there peaceful Muslims?  I'm sure there must be, but that is certainly not the mainstream focus of the religion.

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11 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Suck & Blow.

So is it the Islamist killer or is it Islam that is the problem?  I thought you've said both but this statement seems in conflict to me or when you say Islam do you mean islamist imams when you say Islam?

 

I was replying to the notion that somehow the written word is the problem, not the people reading it.  It takes a human to kill.  If Islam gives them the idea to kill, sure, call it the problem.  There certainly would be no killings in Allah's name without an Allah,

But if the same sentence appears in the Bible and no-one on a London Bridge is dying because of it, is the idea the problem?  It doesn't seem to give the Christian the same impetus.

Imagine if everyone ignored the Koran like they do the Bible.

Edited by bcsapper

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1)  Ignore the Bible is a strong phrase.

2)  If they weren't killing "in the name of allah" you think they'd be sitting 'round drinking gin & juice?

26 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

Imagine if everyone ignored the Koran like they do the Bible.

 

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48 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

1)  Ignore the Bible is a strong phrase.

2)  If they weren't killing "in the name of allah" you think they'd be sitting 'round drinking gin & juice?

 

Well, I have to admit it's been a while since I opened one, but I do read often about how there is all kinds of dodgy stuff in there, just like the Koran.  It's the relative death toll that leads me to believe ignoring the Holy Book is more of a pastime amongst Christians than it is Muslims.

I guess if one is going to ignore the killing instructions, one can also ignore the drinking instructions.  Eating instructions, too, come to that. 

Ramadan could be fun, like Christmas. 

Oh, but the shopping!  I forgot about the shopping...

Edited by bcsapper

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5 hours ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Suck & Blow.

So is it the Islamist killer or is it Islam that is the problem?  I thought you've said both but this statement seems in conflict to me or when you say Islam do you mean islamist imams when you say Islam?

The book isn't killing anyone. It's the worshipers who are doing the killing.

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