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blackbird

In B.C. the coalition between NDP and Green Party is bad news.

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In the recent election in B.C., the Liberals got 43 seats, the NDP 41, and the Greens 3 seats.  The NDP and Greens formed a kind of coalition although they stress it is not a coalition.  This is not what the voters who voted for NDP or Green parties voted for.  Their agenda is bad news for B.C.  They plan to stop the Trans Mountain Pipeline project.  This will be very bad for Canada and could have serious ramifications for national unity.  Alberta is quite choked up by the harsh words the Green Party leader Andrew Weaver said against the Alberta oil industry, shipping oil, and against Premier Notley.  This was the first major gaff by the Green Party leader.  Now we have a situation where the Premier of Alberta and the PM have their backs up.

Also, there is a situation where the NDP/Green coalition could be required to supply one member as the speaker in the legislature.  This presents a major problem because the LIberals have 43 seats, the NDP 41 and Greens 3.  The total number of MLAs is 87.  This means if the NDP supply the Speaker, the NDP/Green coalition will have only 43 members, which is the same as the Liberals.  This could create a very unstable legislature.  The Liberals are unlikely to provide the Speaker because that would reduce them to 42 members.  This means if no party provides an MLA to be the Speaker, the lieutenant governor could be forced to dissolve the legislature and call and election.  The parties will have some very hard decisions to make within weeks.

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7 hours ago, blackbird said:

This is not what the voters who voted for NDP o

Sure but I bet many who voted either NDP or Green are happier with that than Liberal.  Only those who voted Liberal are sure to be completely unhappy.

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

This will be very bad for Canada and could have serious ramifications for national unity.

You mean like civil war ramifications?  Or are you overstating the usual bitching everyone does?

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Alberta is quite choked up by the harsh words the Green Party leader Andrew Weaver said against the Alberta oil industry, shipping oil, and against Premier Notley

Awww.   Environmental stewardship be damned, lets not hurt Alberta's feelings.

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

This could create a very unstable legislature.

True.  No doubt we are in for another election sooner rather than later.  I suspect the Liberals would win if that happened, unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Environmental stewardship be damned

You're completely right.  I think Alberta should "up their game" and get on board with BC's green agenda.  We could start by starting to close the valves on the existing Kinder Morgan lines that run to Burnaby.  I mean....sure it would choke off the supply of gasoline for everyone from Kamloops to Vancouver, but hey, environmental stewardship comes with costs right?

I'm sure all those folks in the Okanagan and the whole of the Fraser Valley wouldn't mind walking to work.

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6 minutes ago, Hydraboss said:

mean....sure it would choke off the supply of gasoline for everyone from Kamloops to Vancouver, but hey, environmental stewardship comes with costs right

Yeah it does.  So how about we start investing in our environment now instead of new pipelines so that we can turn off the valves on the old ones.

Don't misrepresent my position as all or nothing.  I'm well aware that given our society's reliance on oil we will have to maintain production for some time into the future as we transition to renewable energy.  But if we ever hope to get there, its important to stop supporting new oil infrastructure.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

important to stop supporting new oil infrastructure

Sorry, but that's a load of bs.  What do you propose should happen when the existing line needs turnaround work for section replacement and needs to shut down for a couple of months?  How would you like to get your fuel feedstock delivered then?  A twin line on the Trans Mountain would allow them to simply switch over to the new one instead of relying on more rail car traffic.

If BC wants to try and block the expansion, I sincerely hope Alberta just spins the valves, if not shut, down to say 50% or so.  If you folks want to say you control what comes into your province, I say Alberta should use it's leverage to do the exact same thing.  Control what comes into your province.  And perhaps what comes OUT of your province.....as in the oil and gas produced in NE BC that enters Alberta in smaller gathering lines before being placed in the larger lines that originate in my province that facilitate the product moving back into the southern part of your province.  The content and flow of pipelines like that fall under shared federal/provincial jurisdiction.

If the soon-to-be eco warrior government in BC wants to play...we can play.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

for some time into the future

Even the best guess for the earliest weening off carbon fuels puts that date sometime next century.

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13 hours ago, dialamah said:

Sure but I bet many who voted either NDP or Green are happier with that than Liberal.  Only those who voted Liberal are sure to be completely unhappy.

You mean like civil war ramifications?  Or are you overstating the usual bitching everyone does?

Awww.   Environmental stewardship be damned, lets not hurt Alberta's feelings.

True.  No doubt we are in for another election sooner rather than later.  I suspect the Liberals would win if that happened, unfortunately.

NO, I am not suggesting there would be a civil war.  But it is likely to cause a lot of stress to Confederation.   Environmental radicalism as in banning pipelines or banning a hydro-electric project is not environmental stewardship.   There's more to it than hurting Alberta's feeling.  Like thousands of jobs for laid-off Albertans and hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue for Alberta, Canada, and some money for B.C. if they can ship their oil to Asian markets.   NDP and Green types live in a kind of dreamworld where they think money grows on trees and we don't need certain industries, like pipelines.  Very inconsiderate of them.

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So apparently Alberta CAN shut down all the oil and gas which flows to BC and can cut the pipeline which BC uses to ship gas to Saskatchewan for refining, and then brings it back to BC for sale.

Alberta should cut off B.C.’s oil supplies as a form of protest. It has used that tactic before — against Ontario

Almost 90 per cent of the fuel for Vancouver and the southern coast comes out of that pipeline, either as gasoline or crude to be refined.

Kinder Morgan is also a major supplier of gasoline to Kamloops and the wider interior. In a separate operation, the company pipes jet fuel to Vancouver Airport.

Imagine the progress if all that was cut off — car-free streets, silent skies, parked transport trucks, happy strolls to pick up the kids and the groceries. Such a blessing!

The Alberta government could actually do something like that. In fact, it already has.

Since at least the 1970s, the province has had authority to prohibit shipments of energy products outside the province.

 

http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/alberta-should-cut-off-b-c-s-oil-supplies-as-a-form-of-protest-it-has-used-that-tactic-before-against-ontario

Edited by Argus

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21 hours ago, Hydraboss said:

Even the best guess for the earliest weening off carbon fuels puts that date sometime next century.

Would that be true if there were suddenly no oil?  

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11 minutes ago, Argus said:

Imagine the progress if all that was cut off — car-free streets, silent skies, parked transport trucks, happy strolls to pick up the kids and the groceries. Such a blessing!

It does sound nice. :)   

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27 minutes ago, Argus said:

So apparently Alberta CAN shut down all the oil and gas which flows to BC and can cut the pipeline which BC uses to ship gas to Saskatchewan for refining, and then brings it back to BC for sale.

Alberta should cut off B.C.’s oil supplies as a form of protest. It has used that tactic before — against Ontario

Almost 90 per cent of the fuel for Vancouver and the southern coast comes out of that pipeline, either as gasoline or crude to be refined.

Kinder Morgan is also a major supplier of gasoline to Kamloops and the wider interior. In a separate operation, the company pipes jet fuel to Vancouver Airport.

Imagine the progress if all that was cut off — car-free streets, silent skies, parked transport trucks, happy strolls to pick up the kids and the groceries. Such a blessing!

The Alberta government could actually do something like that. In fact, it already has.

Since at least the 1970s, the province has had authority to prohibit shipments of energy products outside the province.

 

http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/alberta-should-cut-off-b-c-s-oil-supplies-as-a-form-of-protest-it-has-used-that-tactic-before-against-ontario

I doubt anything like that would ever happen.  It would be considered a terrorist act and the Federal government would send the military into Alberta, just like they sent it into Quebec for the FLQ crisis in 1970.  It would give Trudeau the chance to declare the War Measure Act as his father did and make a legacy for himself.

Edited by blackbird
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1 minute ago, blackbird said:

I doubt anything like that would ever happen.  It would be considered a terrorist act and the Federal government would send the military into Alberta, just like they sent it into Quebec for the FLQ crisis in 1970.  It would give Trudeau the chance to declare the War Measure Act as his father did and make a legacy for himself.

If they were allowed to do it to Ontario there's no reason they wouldn't be allowed to do it to BC. Natural resources belong to the provinces, according to the constitution. They only become a federal matter when they are transported across provincial borders.

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7 minutes ago, Argus said:

If they were allowed to do it to Ontario there's no reason they wouldn't be allowed to do it to BC. Natural resources belong to the provinces, according to the constitution. They only become a federal matter when they are transported across provincial borders.

Yes, but cutting off a vital product like gas supplies would create a serious threat to  security for millions of people.  No transportation would be a catastrophe.  No more sunny ways from Trudeau.

I dont' know the details of Alberta not shipping oil to Ontario, but isn't it true that Ontario and Quebec (and the maritimes I assume) get most of their oil from Saudi Arabia and possibly Venezuala.  They have other sources.  I am not sure B.C. has other sources that could compensate for Alberta's oil.

Edited by blackbird

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8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yes, but cutting off a vital product like gas supplies would create a serious threat to  security for millions of people.  No transportation would be a catastrophe.  No more sunny ways from Trudeau.

I dont' know the details of Alberta not shipping oil to Ontario, but isn't it true that Ontario and Quebec (and the maritimes I assume) get most of their oil from Saudi Arabia and possibly Venezuala.  They have other sources.  I am not sure B.C. has other sources that could compensate for Alberta's oil.

Oh it can bring in big tankers full of oil any time! Won't that be a delicious dilemma!? 

Alberta doesn't have to cut it off completely, just cut it back so prices rise and there are blocks long lineups at gas stations.

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Alberta has always had selfish ideals at its core with respect to other provinces...   witness giving one-way bus tickets to homeless people to come to BC...   the fevered opposition to a National Energy Program...   while at the same time claiming other provinces can't get in the way of the "national interest"...   hypocrites.

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13 minutes ago, Argus said:

Oh it can bring in big tankers full of oil any time! Won't that be a delicious dilemma!? 

Alberta doesn't have to cut it off completely, just cut it back so prices rise and there are blocks long lineups at gas stations.

The lower mainland already gets much of its gas from Washington State refineries in Anacortes and Cherry Point. We're burning Alaskan crude.

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6 hours ago, The_Squid said:

Alberta has always had selfish ideals at its core with respect to other provinces...   witness giving one-way bus tickets to homeless people to come to BC...   the fevered opposition to a National Energy Program...   while at the same time claiming other provinces can't get in the way of the "national interest"...   hypocrites.

This pipeline is most definitely in the national interest. The tax money on those oil resources are just about the only surplus the federal government has for distributing to all the welfare provinces.

Edited by Argus

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I get a laugh out of all those on the lower mainland getting sweaty about tanker traffic, when much of the gas they are burning is from Alaskan oil that arrived by tanker through Juan de Fuca and refined within sight of the border.

Edited by Wilber

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9 minutes ago, Argus said:

This pipeline is mos definitely in the national interest. The tax money on those oil resources are just about the only surplus the federal government has for distributing to all the welfare provinces.

I didn't say anything about a pipeline.   Alberta should butt out of the BC election.  None of their business. 

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57 minutes ago, dialamah said:

It does sound nice. :)   

It sounds great actually, I can't imagine anything that would cause British Columbians to consider independence faster. Bring it on Alberta.

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43 minutes ago, Argus said:

Natural resources belong to the provinces, according to the constitution. They only become a federal matter when they are transported across provincial borders.

I'd love to see Ottawa treat Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's salmon.

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It sounds great actually, I can't imagine anything that would cause British Columbians to consider independence faster. Bring it on Alberta.

What would your immigration policy be?

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I'd love to see Ottawa treat Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's salmon.

What, eat it?

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