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blackbird

In B.C. the coalition between NDP and Green Party is bad news.

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5 minutes ago, Omni said:

Perhaps you need to move a little further than just your door step. The world's a big place.

The coal smoke outside my door step worked fine for me. You just pretty much told me that outside on my door step is as far as I need to go. Make up your mind, will you?  

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9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You're probably so full of mercury we could use you as a thermometer...

What? Can you breathe in mercury also? I didn't know that? Geez. 

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4 minutes ago, taxme said:

The coal smoke outside my door step worked fine for me. You just pretty much told me that outside on my door step is as far as I need to go. Make up your mind, will you?  

I've actually breathed coal smoke so my mind is pretty much made up.

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The convention rules about the Speaker are more outdated nonsense. There should be laws about it that favour the candidate backed by the larger number of MLAs, or maybe the time has come to appoint a Speaker who is not an MLA. 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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7 hours ago, taxme said:

What? Can you breathe in mercury also? I didn't know that? Geez. 

Breathing mercury is what made lighthouse keepers in the past often go mad. To keep the light perfectly level with the horizon they floated their lamp on a pool of liquid mercury...which then vapourized with the heat the lamp produced.  Made their brains rot faster than Fox News or Breitbart.

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On 2017-06-03 at 6:35 PM, taxme said:

I am ready for another election. All the Greens believe in and would like to do is send us all back to the 18th century. We can't allow that to happen. The Green Party in my opinion are nothing more than a bunch of environ"mental" wackos.

I am ready also, but it might be better to give the NDP and Green some time to show the voters what they are like.  It the election is too soon, the result might not change much.  Giving it some time might convince a lot of people to vote them out.

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11 hours ago, blackbird said:

I am ready also, but it might be better to give the NDP and Green some time to show the voters what they are like.  It the election is too soon, the result might not change much.  Giving it some time might convince a lot of people to vote them out.

Isn't severely damaging themselves economically every generation or so, by electing the hapless NDP,  a ritual flagellation in BC?

 

Unfortunately for many people, this time they won't be able to flee to Alberta for a job.

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5 hours ago, overthere said:

Isn't severely damaging themselves economically every generation or so, by electing the hapless NDP,  a ritual flagellation in BC?

 

Unfortunately for many people, this time they won't be able to flee to Alberta for a job.

Unfortunately, yes. Seems to be the way it works.  Now the voters have thrown some Greens into the mix, giving it an even worse influence.

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On 6/5/2017 at 9:35 AM, overthere said:

Isn't severely damaging themselves economically every generation or so, by electing the hapless NDP,  a ritual flagellation in BC?

 

Unfortunately for many people, this time they won't be able to flee to Alberta for a job.

The oft-repeated claim that NDP are bad economic stewards is a myth.  

Quote

 

Under the Social Credit government, B.C.'s economy expanded from 1982 to 1991 by an average of 1.9 per cent annually. (The low number is largely a result of 1982's devastating decline of 6.1 per cent.)

From 1992 through to 2000, during the New Democrats' nine full years in power (which excludes the last two months of 1991, and the first four months of 2001), B.C.'s GDP grew by an annual average of three per cent.

Under Gordon Campbell's BC Liberals, provincial GDP from 2001 through 2008 rose by an annual average of 2.8 per cent. However, if we include the Royal Bank's estimates for 2009 and 2010, that number slips to 2.4 per cent.

 

4

 

A 2013 UBC study demonstrated that relative fiscal management was moderately better under the NDP than the Liberals, when compared to other provinces.  The Mike Harcourt Government in particular out-performed the Liberals, as well as the governments led by Clark, Miller and Dosanjh.

In 2012, the Business Council of BC published a study comparing decade-by-decade economic performance spanning 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.  

Quote

In sum, we can say that the 1990s were stronger for economic indicators that are more influenced by population growth while the 2000s were better for fundamental measures of prosperity and well-being that adjust for population growth. This review does not explore the reasons behind the changing economic circumstances across the decades, but we do note that as a small, open economy external circumstances (such as commodity prices, strength of the US and Asian economies, interest rates, economic conditions in other parts of the country) are important factors in BC’s overall economic performance. For this reason, comparing BC’s results for each decade against Canada’s is an important part of the review.

 

What the UBC and the Business Council of BC studies both acknowledge is that factors external to a government also affects overall economic performance.    A simplistic "NDP are bad, Liberals are good" ignores facts, history and the realities of managing an economy that can be buffeted by forces entirely outside the control of the government of the day.

 

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Every time the ND is in power, Alberta fills up with economic migrants.  That alone has a positive effect on jobless rates in BC.  There aren't any more jobs, just fewer people chasing them

 

That option ain't happening this time.  Alberta won't be welcoming trades people.  It will be interesting to see how the NDP employ people facing the devastation coming to oil/LNG, the lumber industry, and housing.  Shutting down Site C and Kinder Morgan can only help.  Maybe the NDP will expand BCs number one earner: coal production.

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎04 at 4:39 PM, Omni said:

I've actually breathed coal smoke so my mind is pretty much made up.

Coal reserves are already sold and owned by the Chinese government.

I believe Blackbird's continuing analysis is dead on.

I myself am strong on the environment but you can build today safe pipelines. I am no engineer but from what I have read they have done wonders with pressure and shut off valves and structural integrity. From what I gather Its more the ships at sea that are the real  risk. Any ship carrying oil is a huge risk.

In the interim long term environmental concerns and short tem employment concerns will clash.

One factor no one has discussed is aboriginal rights over the land in which the pipelines travel.

The native councils are looking for safeguards. They are mixed on the pipeline but surprisingly a lot more up to date on pipeline technology safety features than the Greens and NDP. I've read some of their positions. I actually trust them in presenting environmental views more than I do the NDP or Greens.

That said is their any human industry that does not pollute in some way?

I think on this one the native councils in BC ultimately will close it down or have it continue. They are the wild card in my opinion but I think Blackbird is right this is headed for a classic inter-provincial stalemate with Trudeau flapping about like the useless peacock he is.

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On 6/4/2017 at 8:56 PM, eyeball said:

Breathing mercury is what made lighthouse keepers in the past often go mad. To keep the light perfectly level with the horizon they floated their lamp on a pool of liquid mercury...which then vapourized with the heat the lamp produced.  Made their brains rot faster than Fox News or Breitbart.

CNN, MSNBC, New York Times and the CBC appear to have already lost all of their brain cells. They have all become nothing more than a bunch of brain dead zombies and all are left to dangle on the elites puppet strings for eternity. FOX News and Breibart still have plenty of people working for them that still have numerous brain cells left to function on. Sorry to have to tell you that great hews.   

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On 6/2/2017 at 0:10 AM, blackbird said:

In the recent election in B.C., the Liberals got 43 seats, the NDP 41, and the Greens 3 seats.  The NDP and Greens formed a kind of coalition although they stress it is not a coalition.  This is not what the voters who voted for NDP or Green parties voted for.  Their agenda is bad news for B.C.  They plan to stop the Trans Mountain Pipeline project.  This will be very bad for Canada and could have serious ramifications for national unity.  Alberta is quite choked up by the harsh words the Green Party leader Andrew Weaver said against the Alberta oil industry, shipping oil, and against Premier Notley.  This was the first major gaff by the Green Party leader.  Now we have a situation where the Premier of Alberta and the PM have their backs up.

Also, there is a situation where the NDP/Green coalition could be required to supply one member as the speaker in the legislature.  This presents a major problem because the LIberals have 43 seats, the NDP 41 and Greens 3.  The total number of MLAs is 87.  This means if the NDP supply the Speaker, the NDP/Green coalition will have only 43 members, which is the same as the Liberals.  This could create a very unstable legislature.  The Liberals are unlikely to provide the Speaker because that would reduce them to 42 members.  This means if no party provides an MLA to be the Speaker, the lieutenant governor could be forced to dissolve the legislature and call and election.  The parties will have some very hard decisions to make within weeks.

Well, according to the way I see things today, the BC liberals should still be the party in power because they got the most popular votes and the most seats. With a 43 to 43 tie the liberals should still be in power because again they did get the most votes and the most seats. I have to wonder if coalitions like between the NDP/Greens is a good thing for democracy? For me they should not be the ones who will now govern the Province. My opinion, of course. 

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I don't follow BC politics closely so what I say may be stupid.

Christy Clark seriously played her cards badly, and this supports my general view that Western-Canadian politicians are naive, incompetent.

IMV, she should have resigned election night and asked the Lt-Gov to ask someone else to form a government.

When that government obviously fell (lacking support in the House), she could then turn to the Lieutenant-Governor and say: "Let me try."  If it works, she's premier. If it doesn't work, she goes into the election as premier.

Now, she has nothing to offer (no "spiles", as they say in Nfld) for the obvious election to be.

=====

There are several similar elections in Canada that come to my mind: federal in 1972 (even 1979) and Newfoundland in 1971. Read John Crosbie's book No Holds Barred for what he did.

And frankly, I wondered why Clark didn't just "buy" a member. Did she try to make someone cross the floor? (As I say, I don't follow BC politics.) 

Edited by August1991

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On 7/2/2017 at 1:18 PM, August1991 said:

I don't follow BC politics closely so what I say may be stupid.

Christy Clark seriously played her cards badly, and this supports my general view that Western-Canadian politicians are naive, incompetent.

IMV, she should have resigned election night and asked the Lt-Gov to ask someone else to form a government.

When that government obviously fell (lacking support in the House), she could then turn to the Lieutenant-Governor and say: "Let me try."  If it works, she's premier. If it doesn't work, she goes into the election as premier.

Now, she has nothing to offer (no "spiles", as they say in Nfld) for the obvious election to be.

=====

There are several similar elections in Canada that come to my mind: federal in 1972 (even 1979) and Newfoundland in 1971. Read John Crosbie's book No Holds Barred for what he did.

And frankly, I wondered why Clark didn't just "buy" a member. Did she try to make someone cross the floor? (As I say, I don't follow BC politics.) 

Personally, off the cuff here. I think that most western Canadians are too naive, apathetic, ignorant and too incompetent when it comes to politics. They are just a clueless bunch of emotional people who appear to lack any kind of common sense and logic, and only deal in emotion and foolish talk. Just my opinion, of course from living among these people for the last 40 years. They just don't seem to care as to really what goes on in their province or country because they never want to talk about politics and don't want too and so real and true issues that really effect their lives are non-issues with them. They like to get all emotional and involved in silly issues that does not do anything good or great for them. They just pay their taxes and they shut up. Just saying. 

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On 7/5/2017 at 0:16 AM, taxme said:

Personally, off the cuff here. I think that most western Canadians are too naive, apathetic, ignorant and too incompetent when it comes to politics. They are just a clueless bunch of emotional people who appear to lack any kind of common sense and logic, and only deal in emotion and foolish talk. Just my opinion, of course from living among these people for the last 40 years. They just don't seem to care as to really what goes on in their province or country because they never want to talk about politics and don't want too and so real and true issues that really effect their lives are non-issues with them. They like to get all emotional and involved in silly issues that does not do anything good or great for them. They just pay their taxes and they shut up. Just saying. 

Since it's just talk, taxme, let me disagree. (Diefenbaker, like Tommy Douglas, supports your argument - not mine - that westerners are emotional.)  IMHO, it's not ignorance or emotion. I once thought naive, but that's not true. Politically incompetent, or gullible? Maybe.

When travelling abroad, there are three (maybe four) "types" of Canadians I'm always happy to meet: Westerners (meaning Albertans, northern BC, Manitoba etc), Newfoundlanders, anyone from the Maritimes (including Acadiens and regional Quebecers).  I know that only some of them are smart but I can trust them all.

Joe Clark was politically incompetent faced with Trudeau in 1979, and even Mulroney later. Why?

In similar circumstances, why was Christy Clark (2017) less politically competent than John Crosbie (1971)? Dunno.

======

She should have resigned immediately, on election night. Her party had fewer seats. And let the universe unfold as it does...

It's always better to go into an election as government since the cabinet has local money to spend.

Final Note: If I were John Horgan, I would ask the Lt-Gov to convene the legislature around October or so (while he madly, generously entices a Liberal MLA to cross the floor).

Edited by August1991

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19 hours ago, August1991 said:

Since it's just talk, taxme, let me disagree. (Diefenbaker, like Tommy Douglas, supports your argument - not mine - that westerners are emotional.)  IMHO, it's not ignorance or emotion. I once thought naive, but that's not true. Politically incompetent, or gullible? Maybe.

When travelling abroad, there are three (maybe four) "types" of Canadians I'm always happy to meet: Westerners (meaning Albertans, northern BC, Manitoba etc), Newfoundlanders, anyone from the Maritimes (including Acadiens and regional Quebecers).  I know that only some of them are smart but I can trust them all.

Joe Clark was politically incompetent faced with Trudeau in 1979, and even Mulroney later. Why?

In similar circumstances, why was Christy Clark (2017) less politically competent than John Crosbie (1971)? Dunno.

======

She should have resigned immediately, on election night. Her party had fewer seats. And let the universe unfold as it does...

It's always better to go into an election as government since the cabinet has local money to spend.

Final Note: If I were John Horgan, I would ask the Lt-Gov to convene the legislature around October or so (while he madly, generously entices a Liberal MLA to cross the floor).

Her party ended up with more seats than the NDP. The score was Libs 43, and the NDP 41. The liberals should be in power right now if it were not for the Green Party joining with the NDP. That was a steal of a deal for Horgan who should not be the premier of BC today at all. I demand another election now. 

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2 hours ago, taxme said:

Her party ended up with more seats than the NDP. The score was Libs 43, and the NDP 41. The liberals should be in power right now if it were not for the Green Party joining with the NDP. That was a steal of a deal for Horgan who should not be the premier of BC today at all. I demand another election now. 

You're right; I'm wrong. She had more seats on election night.

It would have been unprecedented (?) but she could have still gone to the Lt-Gov and said that she doesn't have the support of the house...

Or, she could have formed a new cabinet/government but only gone to the house in, say, 5 months after she had "bribed" any member or two to cross the floor.

===

At this point, she's in opposition and she's discredited for having said anything to maintain power. "Grasping" is the word in my mind. If I were in her caucus, I'd be looking for a new face to  put on the billboards.

As to the new NDP government, they have every reason to wait until November to call the legislature and face their first critical confidence vote. Maybe they can get a Liberal r two to cross the floor/sit as an independent. It's easy for a government to hand out $10 million to one person. But well invested, it means that the person (and even their children) will never have to work ever again. 

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7 hours ago, August1991 said:

You're right; I'm wrong. She had more seats on election night.

It would have been unprecedented (?) but she could have still gone to the Lt-Gov and said that she doesn't have the support of the house...

Or, she could have formed a new cabinet/government but only gone to the house in, say, 5 months after she had "bribed" any member or two to cross the floor.

===

At this point, she's in opposition and she's discredited for having said anything to maintain power. "Grasping" is the word in my mind. If I were in her caucus, I'd be looking for a new face to  put on the billboards.

As to the new NDP government, they have every reason to wait until November to call the legislature and face their first critical confidence vote. Maybe they can get a Liberal r two to cross the floor/sit as an independent. It's easy for a government to hand out $10 million to one person. But well invested, it means that the person (and even their children) will never have to work ever again. 

If that person takes the bribe and the offer of $10 million, than that person should be arrested. Yes/no? 

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18 hours ago, taxme said:

If that person takes the bribe and the offer of $10 million, than that person should be arrested. Yes/no? 

Would you consider an appointment to the senate a "bribe"? How about being named BC's representative to a UN organization? Or, how about approving a zoning change so that the property your wife's brother-in-law owns can now be developed as residential? 

=====

In the movie "A Man For All Seasons" (written by Robert Bolt), there's a scene where More (Scofield) in front of poor, ambitious John Hurt drops a cup - offered as a gift - into the Thames. I'm always reminded of that scene when such questions arise.

Edited by August1991

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On 7/8/2017 at 6:10 PM, August1991 said:

Would you consider an appointment to the senate a "bribe"? How about being named BC's representative to a UN organization? Or, how about approving a zoning change so that the property your wife's brother-in-law owns can now be developed as residential? 

=====

In the movie "A Man For All Seasons" (written by Robert Bolt), there's a scene where More (Scofield) in front of poor, ambitious John Hurt drops a cup - offered as a gift - into the Thames. I'm always reminded of that scene when such questions arise.

You did not answer my question? 

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On 6/26/2017 at 2:10 PM, overthere said:

 Shutting down Site C and Kinder Morgan can only help.  Maybe the NDP will expand BCs number one earner: coal production.

I think you will find that the #1 is actually cultivation of marijuana.

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5 hours ago, cannuck said:

I think you will find that the #1 is actually cultivation of marijuana.

As it had been for about 20 years now.

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On 6/24/2017 at 7:18 AM, dialamah said:

The oft-repeated claim that NDP are bad economic stewards is a myth.  

 

A 2013 UBC study demonstrated that relative fiscal management was moderately better under the NDP than the Liberals, when compared to other provinces.  The Mike Harcourt Government in particular out-performed the Liberals, as well as the governments led by Clark, Miller and Dosanjh.

In 2012, the Business Council of BC published a study comparing decade-by-decade economic performance spanning 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.  

 

What the UBC and the Business Council of BC studies both acknowledge is that factors external to a government also affects overall economic performance.    A simplistic "NDP are bad, Liberals are good" ignores facts, history and the realities of managing an economy that can be buffeted by forces entirely outside the control of the government of the day.

 

Oddly, having lived through the Dismal Decade, these reports ignore some salient points. For one thing, under the New Dithering Party, for the first time in its history BC became a "have-not" province. Further, the NDP so devastated the coffers they brought in taxes on dozens of things which were already paid for by existing taxation. In fact, they were so desperate for money they brought in a...Road Kill Tax. Yup, Road Kille Tax. If you struck a deer or other animal and took the carcass home for the larder, you had to weight it, report to the local gov office and pay a tax. Fortunately, at the next election, the NDP became road kill.  

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