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Space Travel, 10/04/1957 - 10/04/2017


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Well that sux! And I wanted to retire on the Moon.  The figure you quoted us on the STS (3G's) doesn't sound too bad.  In 2001, it mentioned that when the Orion spaceplane took off for the space station he was thrust back into his cushy seat and the seat belts were of course full harnesses.

I liked how Dr floyd was watching TV on a screen imbedded in the seat in front of him.  Wow, pretty prphetic.  But if we can keep it to no more than 3G's on the way up/down, that probably wouldn't be too bad for most people, would it?

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High altitude radiation is a dirty little secret with airline crews, especially on polar routes. I'm thinking it will be a big factor in long duration space travel.

Actually, space travel has consumed far fewer resources and done far less damage to the "natural" than mining, forestry, and commercial fishing.   Resources in space provide lots of data and imaging o

All the folks whining about the rich and powerful will still be sitting on Earth whining about the rich and powerful. Meanwhile, those who have something useful to contribute will become a spacefaring

3 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Well that sux! And I wanted to retire on the Moon.  The figure you quoted us on the STS (3G's) doesn't sound too bad.  In 2001, it mentioned that when the Orion spaceplane took off for the space station he was thrust back into his cushy seat and the seat belts were of course full harnesses.

I liked how Dr floyd was watching TV on a screen imbedded in the seat in front of him.  Wow, pretty prphetic.  But if we can keep it to no more than 3G's on the way up/down, that probably wouldn't be too bad for most people, would it?

 

I've done the whole Floyd's Journey using Orbiter. Station V is pretty awesome.

https://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1932

A gaming PC/Laptop is preferred. 

Three Gs sustained is easily handled with a small amount of training/getting used to it. It's those negative-Gs that always make me go uuuuurp. 

 

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On 7/7/2017 at 11:42 AM, JamesHackerMP said:

it would make me toss my cookies :blink:

 

A condition known as eyeballs in...eyeballs out. 

If you load-up one of those Soyuz videos that show the crew during launch, you can see that the greatest moment of discomfort...even for the old space hands...is stage separation and main engine cut-off...both moments of negative G forces.

Some Soyuz crews keep a plush toy on a string attached to the control panel...it is a surprisingly accurate G-meter.

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/22/2017 at 2:27 AM, JamesHackerMP said:

....

So, keeping that in mind, what is in store for space travel and space exploration by the 100th anniversary of the Space Age? (Oct 4, 2057)  Will there be a lunar colony? Will there be a colony on Mars? Furthermore, SHOULD there be a Lunar and/or Martian colony? The benefits of space travel and space exploration--both manned and unmanned--have been substantial, to be sure, but so have the costs.  For now, it's too dangerous, expensive in both money and resources, cumbersome and inconvenient for any more than a handful of humans to get into orbit or beyond.

You quote that about 600 humans have travelled into "space". In fact, only about 25 have actually left earth orbit and been exposed to solar radiation - at most for two weeks or so. All the others, some 575, have remained within the protective shell of our earth's belts.

In the movie 2001, Kubrick/Clarke imagined people living/running in centrifugal circles to imitate gravity. (In fact, such rotating circles cause disorientation and NASA/Russia never adopted them).  But a lack of gravity is the least of our problems; prolonged exposure to solar radiation is far more severe.

Are you surprised to learn that Hollywood is wrong?

======

IMHO, the Apollo programme was primarily a feat of engineering; akin to the arches of a medieval cathedral  - the comparison to medieval sailors alone in a boat in the ocean is completely misplaced.  As 14th century builders, we today are still very far from the Eiffel Tower.

Edited by August1991
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On 8/16/2017 at 8:15 AM, JamesHackerMP said:

So there's no way you can send people into orbit without popping their eyeballs out on a really rough ride?

 

The Shuttle was an easy ride as they go. Gemini and the Long March series...the rough ones. The type of fuel as well as pressure tank and turbo pump design greatly contribute to...or lessen...Pogo Oscillation. Any current US design takes this into account re: human payloads. Space sickness is a no-no to be avoided as the Red Chinese have found out in their recent manned flights. No barfing in the helmet...please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_oscillation

 

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

You quote that about 600 humans have travelled into "space". In fact, only about 25 have actually left earth orbit and been exposed to solar radiation - at most for two weeks or so. All the others, some 575, have remained within the protective shell of our earth's belts.

In the movie 2001, Kubrick/Clarke imagined people living/running in centrifugal circles to imitate gravity. (In fact, such rotating circles cause disorientation and NASA/Russia never adopted them).  But a lack of gravity is the least of our problems; prolonged exposure to solar radiation is far more severe.

Are you surprised to learn that Hollywood is wrong?

======

IMHO, the Apollo programme was primarily a feat of engineering; akin to the arches of a medieval cathedral  - the comparison to medieval sailors alone in a boat in the ocean is completely misplaced.  As 14th century builders, we today are still very far from the Eiffel Tower.

 

The fist lung-fish crawling out onto land might have enjoyed similar fishy-thoughts.

Out-of-plane Hohmann Transfer Orbits are our friends...plus appropriate magnetic shielding. We're going or dying...our choice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

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1 hour ago, Wilber said:

High altitude radiation is a dirty little secret with airline crews, especially on polar routes. I'm thinking it will be a big factor in long duration space travel.

Earth's magnetic field funnels captured radiation towards the poles.

Once past the Van Allen Belts, any craft gets bathed in unbridled solar and cosmic radiation. However, there are ways to shield against the bulk of of it. But that equals weight...

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I shed a tear today for Cassini. I remember following the launch when I was a kid and the arrival at Saturn when I was a teen. It's basically been around for as long as I can remember, returning fascinating science. I hope its fascinating discoveries are followed up on with future spacecraft some time soon. 

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3 hours ago, Bonam said:

I shed a tear today for Cassini. I remember following the launch when I was a kid and the arrival at Saturn when I was a teen. It's basically been around for as long as I can remember, returning fascinating science. I hope its fascinating discoveries are followed up on with future spacecraft some time soon. 

Juno...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_UaOhvLUYA

 

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The other cool thing about Cassini-Huygens was the multi-national cooperation for the very expensive Flagship mission, compared to smaller New Horizons or Discovery class missions.   NASA budgets got squeezed badly, and there were cost overruns for the Webb telescope.

NASA, ESA, and ISA (Italy) partnered for what is arguably the most successful orbiter-lander mission ever achieved.

 

Vacation photos from Titan

 

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It is no secret that the only reason for the "space race" was purely military.  We in the Western World counted on the USA to uphold the efforts, but since nobody produces much of anything there anymore, and the government is $20 TRILLION in debt, we can't expect a lot from them.  ALL of the private space initiatives are coming from people who have acquired their wealth strictly through speculative gain.  I hope that long before anyone is foolish enough to send someone to Mars or even the Moon, the speculative bubble will once again do a 1929 full collapse and for another century, we might once again have a real global economy based on wealth that has been created.

So, my forecast for the next several decades is that the Chinese will put a lot more hardware into space so they can watch and hack more effectively, but all of the planets and terrestial satellites should be safe from us that long, at least.

BTW: the idea that we need access to resource on other planets because we are running out is ludicrous.  ALL of the resources that are here, less those launched into deep space, are all still here and going nowhere.  It is not a lack of anything that is our problem, it is an excess - of people.

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2 hours ago, cannuck said:

It is no secret that the only reason for the "space race" was purely military.  We in the Western World counted on the USA to uphold the efforts, but since nobody produces much of anything there anymore, and the government is $20 TRILLION in debt, we can't expect a lot from them.

 

???

The U.S. remains the highest manufacturing per capita nation in the world.    The only humans to have ever left low earth orbit alive have all been Americans.    More "fake news".....

E-721_Table_1.png

 

https://www.mapi.net/blog/2014/01/china-has-dominant-share-world-manufacturing

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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10 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said:

excess of people...well what do you want to do, release a strain of antibiotic-resistant anthrax into the air or something?

Sterilize everyone at birth.  Reverse it on application if they pass all the tests and a birth is deemed necessary for the greater good.

Keep the anthrax in reserve, though.

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7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

???

The U.S. remains the highest manufacturing per capita nation in the world.    The only humans to have ever left low earth orbit alive have all been Americans.    More "fake news".....

E-721_Table_1.png

lets see:  17.4 / 325 = 0.0535% per million people in the US, and 9.7 / 127 = 0.0763% per million in Japan.  Another failure of the US public school system comes to light.

Then there's that reading comprehension problem:  Did I say anyone else had left LOE?   BTW: have any Americans done so in the last 45 years?  Didn't think so.

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Just now, cannuck said:

lets see:  17.4 / 325 = 0.0535% per million people in the US, and 9.7 / 127 = 0.0763% per million in Japan.  Another failure of the US public school system comes to light.

Then there's that reading comprehension problem:  Did I say anyone else had left LOE?   BTW: have any Americans done so in the last 45 years?  Didn't think so.

 

Read the cited article.

Are you still going to cling to your patently false claim about production in the U.S. ?

Why bother to post such stupid claims except to inflame ?

Canadians think about NASA more than the CSA, because a robotic arm does not a space program make.

I'm beginning to doubt your claims about U.S. business ownership and understanding of the American economy.

BTW:  have any Canadians done so...ever ?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Read the cited article.

Are you still going to cling to your patently false claim about production in the U.S. ?

Why bother to post such stupid claims except to inflame ?

Canadians think about NASA more than the CSA, because a robotic arm does not a space program make.

I'm beginning to doubt your claims about U.S. business ownership and understanding of the American economy.

BTW:  have any Canadians done so...ever ?

no time to read the article.  nasty capitalist pig stuff to do.  Just working with the table you provided.

Do you think anyone up here really gives a damn who went into space, when, where and why?  Let you in on another secret:  nobody in our company nor anyone we deal with in our NYC operations or in our WY operations really cares either.  We are a bit too busy trying to survive in a very broken economy.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited by cannuck
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