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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Generally coerced confessions aren't legal or accepted.  But if it suits propoganda we can just ignore the torture prior to his "confession" eh?

How do you know it was coerced. You assume it was because Kadr said so.. This is the same Kadr who didn't say he was physically beaten but lied because of repeat interogations so he could get out. So he admitted to lying when it was convenient to him. He also found it convenient to invoke his Canadian citizenship only when he got caught not before. He also finds it convenient to ignore Muslim law he claims he is a devout follower of to engage in terrorism and now to accept money that he knows came about indirectly from his actions as a terrorist in the name of Allah. Under Islam he is not supposed to attack unarmed civilians let alone accept any money directly or indirectly used to engage in violence. He conveniently ignores that.

Tell you what, you believe what he says, I think he is a pathological liar and manipulator and think the fact he won't give any of his money to the widow of the person he killed says it all as do his latest public insults directed towards her in the last few days.

I don't believe a bloody thing he said or says.  I do not see the innocent panda bear you do. You go hug him. If I had my choice he'd be deported to Pakistan or Egypt. His convenient use of Canadian citizenship to engage in terrorism and play child victim is for you, not me.

 

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Your a dick.....she lost her husband, her children lost their father, who was serving his country, as a medic I might add....Omar and his family has been nothing but a burden to the country, soaking i

He should be in prison for life. The notion this piece of garbage gets any money makes me puke. This is an unrepentant terrorist with a family who endorse and support terrorism and he's given an obsce

It would be interesting to know what would have come out if this case had been argued in court, it's curious to wonder what the Trudeau Liberals are trying to hide by paying Omar off and trying to mak

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8 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

Yes you do... it was the entire premise of your post!! 

Lol, nice try!!

Ah yes, now I see what you mean.

Who was initially in power is irrelevant; IOW, the Liberals started the injustice and the Conservatives continued it.

At this moment in time it is still the Conservatives who are (deliberately) fanning outrage.  Thus they ignore 

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9 minutes ago, Rue said:

How do you know it was coerced. You assume it was because Kadr said so...

....So he admitted to lying when it was convenient to him.

Tell you what, you believe what he says, I think he is a pathological liar....

....I don't believe a bloody thing he said or says.  I do not see the innocent panda bear you do.

 

And yet you seem to think his confession is the gospel truth.

How pathologically convenient.

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19 minutes ago, Rue said:

How do you know it was coerced. You assume it was because Kadr said so.. This is the same Kadr who didn't say he was physically beaten but lied because of repeat interogations so he could get out. So he admitted to lying when it was convenient to him. He also found it convenient to invoke his Canadian citizenship only when he got caught not before. He also finds it convenient to ignore Muslim law he claims he is a devout follower of to engage in terrorism and now to accept money that he knows came about indirectly from his actions as a terrorist in the name of Allah. Under Islam he is not supposed to attack unarmed civilians let alone accept any money directly or indirectly used to engage in violence. He conveniently ignores that.

Tell you what, you believe what he says, I think he is a pathological liar and manipulator and think the fact he won't give any of his money to the widow of the person he killed says it all as do his latest public insults directed towards her in the last few days.

I don't believe a bloody thing he said or says.  I do not see the innocent panda bear you do. You go hug him. If I had my choice he'd be deported to Pakistan or Egypt. His convenient use of Canadian citizenship to engage in terrorism and play child victim is for you, not me.

 

Did not the courts find he'd been tortured?  Did they just take his word for it without evidence?  Are there not pics of him wounded and buried under rubble?  Did not an American say, in the first report hours after the incident, that Khadr did not throw the grenade, but the guy they killed was the thrower?   

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/07/opinion/what-if-omar-khadr-isnt-guilty

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/07/10/omar-khadr-fact-check-paints-a-clearer-picture-of-the-case-and-the-incident-underlying-it.html

As a lawyer yourself, you should particularly appreciate the first link.

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22 minutes ago, Rue said:

How do you know it was coerced. You assume it was because Kadr said so.. This is the same Kadr who didn't say he was physically beaten but lied because of repeat interogations so he could get out. So he admitted to lying when it was convenient to him. He also found it convenient to invoke his Canadian citizenship only when he got caught not before. He also finds it convenient to ignore Muslim law he claims he is a devout follower of to engage in terrorism and now to accept money that he knows came about indirectly from his actions as a terrorist in the name of Allah. Under Islam he is not supposed to attack unarmed civilians let alone accept any money directly or indirectly used to engage in violence. He conveniently ignores that.

Tell you what, you believe what he says, I think he is a pathological liar and manipulator and think the fact he won't give any of his money to the widow of the person he killed says it all as do his latest public insults directed towards her in the last few days.

I don't believe a bloody thing he said or says.  I do not see the innocent panda bear you do. You go hug him. If I had my choice he'd be deported to Pakistan or Egypt. His convenient use of Canadian citizenship to engage in terrorism and play child victim is for you, not me.

 

Lol

Well that's another load of hate and hooey, Rue.

He's as Canadian as you are ... Or are you ...?

Edited by jacee
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On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎10 at 6:38 PM, jacee said:

We have a significant problem with jihadis? Where? Never heard that. 

I can tell you that place of origin is a very bad indicator of anything, and we will never do the dipsh!t Trump thing. Such prejudice is disgusting.

Canada's immigration points system is applied to each individual and generally works pretty well.

Maybe some criminals still do slide by who have good documentation and adequate money. 

Even refugees are screened and selected.

And to my knowledge, we aren't having any significant problems with any immigrants or refugees, or "jihadis".

We are having significant problems with some dipsh!t racist white Canadians committing hate crimes against innocent people .

Where can we send them?

http://mackenzieinstitute.com/rise-islamic-extremism-canada/

For the record,white people do not have a complete monopoly in racism.

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49 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And yet you seem to think his confession is the gospel truth.

How pathologically convenient.

His confession and his words mean nothing to me. His actions and conduct leading up to and during the events that got him captured are what is relevant for me and many others. If anything you prove how cheap and meaningless words are.

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20 minutes ago, jacee said:

White extremists are responsible for most of the hate crimes and terrorism in Canada.

 

Ok so now you are going to use this thread as an excuse to hate white people? Jacee? Is that really you?

Would you not be the first person to lecture me not to blame all Muslims for Muslim terrorists? Why do you then do this with white people?

Hey you think I have not been on the receving end of some neo Nazis in my day? Lol. Of course. Listen let's get real.  My mother grew up in a country where the Japanese invased and tortured everyone except Jews.  Her parents fled white anti semites to China in the first place and made it to Shanghai. She got over her fear of Japanese before she died. She was petrified of them.

My grandparents escaped pogroms, a holocaust and many of my relatives perished at the hands of very angry nasty white people and so? Should I hate all Christians, Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles because of what happened?

No thanks. They taught me to overcome fear and hatred of others. its why I don't hero worship terrorists or make excuses for them.

But come on Jacee using this thread for a rampage on whites? Come on. Bigots come in all shapes and sizes and the fact is the majority of the world's terrorists today claim to be Muslim.

Also you fabricated your comment. You have no statistics about white terrorism in Canada or white racism. Racists in Canada come in all colours and in new Canadians bringing their hatred with them having it protected by people calling their beliefs multi cultural.

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52 minutes ago, jacee said:

Lol

Well that's another load of hate and hooey, Rue.

He's as Canadian as you are ... Or are you ...?

He shouldn't be. He should be deported. As for me I was born here so can't be deported but if I comimitted terrorism overseas this country should not take me back.

I have no right as  Canadian to commit crimes and terrorism overseas. What crap to say that is my Canadian right . Its not my right as a Canadian.

Furthermore unlike Kadr I did not piss on this country and then only use it when it was convenient. I don't try kill my fellow country people and I respect my soldiers.

I don't smeer whites or anyone else like you do. I am just a shmuck over taxed, under paid and bloody grateful to be Canadian and have people like Army Guy put his life on the line for me and other soldiers die to defeat Hitler and scum values like the ones Kadr embraced.

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3 hours ago, Peter F said:

So? Sgt Spears was there conducting military operations against who? why non-soldiers of course. It doesn't matter one little bit that Khadr was not a soldier. He was there. He was in a group that the US was conducting military operations against - be they solidiers or non soldiers, or legal combatants or illegal combatants.  Sgt Spear died of wounds suffered in that battle. He wasn't there by accident or happenstance. He was there because the USofA sent him there with great purpose and resolve to engage the enemy in combat and defeat them. 

IF Khadr wasn't a solider, then he was what?  A terrorist, or if you prefer, a murderer

A group of what??  Go ahead and say it - Terrorists!

He can't be a solider because he's a Canadian citizen, and guess what?  He didn't enlist.  Now, if he gave up citizenship and joined an army in Afghanistan without our knowledge, then good on him, but if that's the case, he is not Canada's problem. 

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56 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Did not the courts find he'd been tortured?  Did they just take his word for it without evidence?  Are there not pics of him wounded and buried under rubble?  Did not an American say, in the first report hours after the incident, that Khadr did not throw the grenade, but the guy they killed was the thrower?   

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/07/opinion/what-if-omar-khadr-isnt-guilty

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/07/10/omar-khadr-fact-check-paints-a-clearer-picture-of-the-case-and-the-incident-underlying-it.html

As a lawyer yourself, you should particularly appreciate the first link.

If you call sleep deprivation cruel and inhumane treatment yes he was "tortured". In my world on a scale of 1-10 its a 1. I have seen victims of torture by Al Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah-if you think they come close to Kadr having to sleep with a light on all the time (that's what the basis of the torture was) think again.

He was treated far better than any ne captured by Al Quaeda He was ever physically beaten. He claims the light being left on made it impossible for him to sleep.

He claims the repeat questioning hour after hour was cruel.

Excuse me if I do not shed a tear. I have seen far worse results and injuries then what he complained about.

Am I mean? Guess so.

I have worked in a court system and seen real chlld victims of horrendous acts. Its done a number on me yes. So don't expect me to even give Kadr's complaints too much  thought. Seen far worse.

I am being honest. I do not mean to be rude to you. I do respect your opinions on this and other things.

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8 minutes ago, Rue said:

I respect my soldiers.

That is a very heartwarming statement Rue. It reminds me of the words spoken by Rabbi Bulka a few years ago at the November 11 ceremony in Ottawa: "We love our troops." And the crowd of some 25,000 repeated it in unison. Off topic but I couldn't help saying it.

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31 minutes ago, Rue said:

Ok so now you are going to use this thread as an excuse to hate white people? Jacee? Is that really you?

Would you not be the first person to lecture me not to blame all Muslims for Muslim terrorists? Why do you then do this with white people?

Hey you think I have not been on the receving end of some neo Nazis in my day? Lol. Of course. Listen let's get real.  My mother grew up in a country where the Japanese invased and tortured everyone except Jews.  Her parents fled white anti semites to China in the first place and made it to Shanghai. She got over her fear of Japanese before she died. She was petrified of them.

My grandparents escaped pogroms, a holocaust and many of my relatives perished at the hands of very angry nasty white people and so? Should I hate all Christians, Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles because of what happened?

No thanks. They taught me to overcome fear and hatred of others. its why I don't hero worship terrorists or make excuses for them.

But come on Jacee using this thread for a rampage on whites? Come on. Bigots come in all shapes and sizes and the fact is the majority of the world's terrorists today claim to be Muslim.

Also you fabricated your comment. You have no statistics about white terrorism in Canada or white racism. Racists in Canada come in all colours and in new Canadians bringing their hatred with them having it protected by people calling their beliefs multi cultural.

I said "white extremists".

Get off your " rampage" Rue.

You're not even funny anymore.

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21 minutes ago, Rue said:

If you call sleep deprivation cruel and inhumane treatment yes he was "tortured". In my world on a scale of 1-10 its a 1. I have seen victims of torture by Al Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah-if you think they come close to Kadr having to sleep with a light on all the time (that's what the basis of the torture was) think again.

He was treated far better than any ne captured by Al Quaeda He was ever physically beaten. He claims the light being left on made it impossible for him to sleep.

He claims the repeat questioning hour after hour was cruel.

Excuse me if I do not shed a tear. I have seen far worse results and injuries then what he complained about.

Am I mean? Guess so.

I have worked in a court system and seen real chlld victims of horrendous acts. Its done a number on me yes. So don't expect me to even give Kadr's complaints too much  thought. Seen far worse.

I am being honest. I do not mean to be rude to you. I do respect your opinions on this and other things.

Most city jails leave their lights on.  All detainees do is cat nap, they don't even have clocks so you don't know how long you've been asleep - if you do sleep.  The only indication you have as to time or day is what the meal you're being served is.

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8 minutes ago, Rue said:

His confession and his words mean nothing to me. His actions and conduct leading up to and during the events that got him captured are what is relevant for me and many others. 

He was under fire by 100 soldiers for about 4 hours, wounded twice and found buried under rubble.  He was 15 years old.  Prior to that, he was taken from Canada at age 9, by his father, to be raised as a jihadist.  

But 9 year olds have choices eh?  And even if 9-year-olds don't, maybe a 12-year-old should defy his father and a merry band of killers to escape into a war-torn country and make his way to friendly forces.  

If not able to do so at 12, certainly a 15-year-old should somehow be able to shake off years of indoctrination and run out into a hail of bullets during a firefight.   

And I suppose a kid of 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 should be able to resist the anti-Western propaganda fed him by his family and all his associates for six years, declare his loyalty to Canada and Canadians and their allies and stand against the Taliban all on his own. 

Certainly he should be able to parse truth from lies better than the adults on this forum who, after only a few intermittent and contradictory media stories, are willing to throw him out of Canada and declare him their enemy.  That a child couldn't withstand years of much more intense propaganda is entirely on him, right?

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Omar demanded NOT to be left in Pakistan with the women.

Quote

In early 2002, Khadr was living in Waziristan with his mother and younger sister.[23] At one point, he was forced to wear a burqa and disguise himself as a girl to avoid scrutiny, an act that upset him.[23] When his father returned, Omar asked to be allowed to stay at a group home [clarification needed] for young men, despite his mother's protests. His father agreed, and a month later allowed Omar to accompany a group of Arabs associated with Abu Laith al-Libi, who needed a Pashto translator during their stay in Khost.

 

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16 minutes ago, dialamah said:

He was under fire by 100 soldiers for about 4 hours,

4 hours???? That gave him plenty of time to wave the white flag and identify himself as a Canadian. Why did he not do that unless he believed in the cause he was fighting for and was prepared to die for it..

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Very interesting thread. I think that both liberal and conservatives arguments are built on some basic assumptions.  Conservatives have already assumed that Khadr killed a person and is a terrorist because his affiliation with his family. Liberals seem to believe that allegations against him are not proven, he was a child who spent his 10 years under unfair detention. With this huge gap in assumptions,  productive discussion can't happen.  It is more of an emotional issue than a logical one. 

 

That being said, I think Canada is a better country than Afghanistan or most of the third world countries (and US too) because of its strong institutions, focus on human values and equal rights. $10M is a little cost to pay for preserving our values. We don't have to stoop down to third world levels where legal system is broken, illegal detentions are common and innocent people die in jail for no reason. 

 

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Just now, capricorn said:

4 hours???? That gave him plenty of time to wave the white flag and identify himself as a Canadian. Why did he not do that unless he believed in the cause he was fighting for and was prepared to die for it..

Why don't you, now?  You've had the "Khadr chose to be an evil terrorist between the ages of 9 and 15" propaganda, but you've also had the court decision that his rights were violated, and you have been shown evidence indicating that he probably did not throw that grenade, yet I don't see you eagerly throwing off the shackles of propaganda.  Why do you expect so much more from a kid than you do from yourself?

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9 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Very interesting thread. I think that both liberal and conservatives arguments are built on some basic assumptions.  Conservatives have already assumed that Khadr killed a person and is a terrorist because his affiliation with his family. Liberals seem to believe that allegations against him are not proven, he was a child who spent his 10 years under unfair detention. With this huge gap in assumptions,  productive discussion can't happen.  It is more of an emotional issue than a logical one. 

 

That being said, I think Canada is a better country than Afghanistan or most of the third world countries (and US too) because of its strong institutions, focus on human values and equal rights. $10M is a little cost to pay for preserving our values. We don't have to stoop down to third world levels where legal system is broken, illegal detentions are common and innocent people die in jail for no reason. 

 

Better than "most" third world countries!  Well, aren't you generous!

The problem with the "preserving our values" comment is that some of us wonder "just what are our values" when Trudeau hangs our military (as well as other people currently held over seas) out to dry, lets Canadians get beheaded and proceeds to kiss ass to a terrorist - Canadian terrorist, yes - but a terrorist none the less.  

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3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Better than "most" third world countries!  Well, aren't you generous!

Lol. Let's not get emotional if we don't get the gold medal in humanity. We don't know about every third world country. There are several dozens of them. Who knows, may be a few will be better. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

The problem with the "preserving our values" comment is that some of us wonder "just what are our values" when Trudeau hangs our military (as well as other people currently held over seas) out to dry, lets Canadians get beheaded and proceeds to kiss ass to a terrorist - Canadian terrorist, yes - but a terrorist none the less.  

 

I don't get this part. How is he a terrorist when nobody could prove it. Are we living in Somalia or Saudi Arabia or China where you could tag anyone as terrorist because you feel so. 

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