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57 minutes ago, PIK said:

He was given 10.5m and a apology from all of us. For what? Killing americans and canadians?

He got caught red-handed in terrorist activities in Aghanistan and hauled off to Guantanamo and apparently "Canada" didn't save him from Guantanamo.

Here's an idea - maybe if you don't get involved with terrorists, you won't get hauled off to Guantanamo.

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Your a dick.....she lost her husband, her children lost their father, who was serving his country, as a medic I might add....Omar and his family has been nothing but a burden to the country, soaking i

He should be in prison for life. The notion this piece of garbage gets any money makes me puke. This is an unrepentant terrorist with a family who endorse and support terrorism and he's given an obsce

It would be interesting to know what would have come out if this case had been argued in court, it's curious to wonder what the Trudeau Liberals are trying to hide by paying Omar off and trying to mak

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11 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

What are we supposed to do?
It's pretty bad when the Canadian taxpayer is financially liable to the victims of another government's actions.    

I suspect that the one-eyed fella has something far more punitive in mind for Canadians than just money. Probably more like all citizens should be flogged to within inches of their lives, preferably natives and refugees doing the whipping.

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Since we're liable for foreign governments actions against Canadian citizens maybe Trudeau should tell us how we can avoid this in the future? 

Maybe declare these countries no fly zones?  (Trump is right?)

Maybe declare impressionable teens and suspected extremist supporters non international travelers?

Point our fingers at dictators and foreign governments and say "Don't torture Canadians"?

Declare war on these countries?

Export our foreign policy to India?

Don't elect spineless Trust fund babies?

How could a court find us liable for these situations but offer no alternatives? If government appointed individuals condoned these acts against Canadian citizens then they should be held accountable... 

 

It's interesting we send Canadian citizens (soldiers) into these places and we are not liable for them. What's the difference? They sign a waiver?

 

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How's about not sending Canadian government flunkies off to partake in clearly illegal (in Canada) activities. Or, How's about our security agencies getting their shit together and facts straight afore feeding such crap to foreign powers . Or, How's about having our government agencies not lie and bullshit and cover-up their involvement whenever they do the crap listed above. 

I think that would be a rational policy.

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On 11/1/2017 at 5:14 AM, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

It's interesting we send Canadian citizens (soldiers) into these places and we are not liable for them. What's the difference? They sign a waiver?

 

Never mind the soldiers, where are the waivers we taxpaying voters sign before we hire people to do our bidding?  Again I ask is there some limited liability clause in the mandates we give the government that I'm not aware of?

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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Never mind the soldiers, where are the waivers we taxpaying voters sign before we hire people to do our bidding?  

When's the last time a politician did your bidding? Certainly none has ever done my bidding. We aren't hiring people to do our bidding, we are picking among the least of the evils in a system that presents us with power hungry megalomaniacs, corrupt self-enrichers, and ideological madmen. 

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7 hours ago, Bonam said:

When's the last time a politician did your bidding? Certainly none has ever done my bidding. We aren't hiring people to do our bidding, we are picking among the least of the evils in a system that presents us with power hungry megalomaniacs, corrupt self-enrichers, and ideological madmen. 

If that's really the case we might as well join ISIS. 

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On 10/31/2017 at 5:24 PM, Goddess said:

He got caught red-handed in terrorist activities in Aghanistan and hauled off to Guantanamo and apparently "Canada" didn't save him from Guantanamo.

Here's an idea - maybe if you don't get involved with terrorists, you won't get hauled off to Guantanamo.

What about the terrorists that nation states support?

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7 hours ago, Bonam said:

When's the last time a politician did your bidding? Certainly none has ever done my bidding. We aren't hiring people to do our bidding, we are picking among the least of the evils in a system that presents us with power hungry megalomaniacs, corrupt self-enrichers, and ideological madmen. 

It's a sad state we are in when we have to choose the lesser of the evils. We should be electing better people, but the system seems to garner more idiots and thieves than people that are willing to do what is right for their riding/district.

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Why don't soldiers launch a class action lawsuit against the government? They have a far more valid argument and have returned with injuries and PTSD we refuse to address. The government (we the people) actually sent them over there, we bring them back and then kick them to the curb.

But we don't have the will to fight frivolous lawsuits brought on by Khadr nand company?  

This is what Canada is becoming?

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On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎01 at 8:35 AM, Peter F said:

How's about not sending Canadian government flunkies off to partake in clearly illegal (in Canada) activities. Or, How's about our security agencies getting their shit together and facts straight afore feeding such crap to foreign powers . Or, How's about having our government agencies not lie and bullshit and cover-up their involvement whenever they do the crap listed above. 

I think that would be a rational policy.

I will admit, there is no excuse for CSIS screw ups. That said, we have laws. CSIS being in a specific kind of business gets info that is illegal but 100% accurate and so they know when people are terrorists but can no be proven under our legal system to be terrorists. So they deport them to countries where interrogation has no rules Syria was deliberately used by Europe, the US and many other countries like Canada to torture  terrorists to get info out of them.

Its a world where you break the law and violate people's rights to prevent terror attacks.

I agree with you what CSIS did was 100% illegal. In a democracy if we follow our laws, terrorists know how to protect themselves with these laws to be able to engage in terror.

What I am saying is if you think the people sent to Syria were done my mistake or without having sufficient illegal but accurate info I would say you might be naïve. If you argue that still does not legally justify what CSIS did then as a lawyer I can not argue that, you are 100% right.

We live in a world now where we are forced to ask and its a difficult question, is sitting back and doing nothing about certain people in the big picture more important to preserving democracy or is the short term need to break the law to stop a terrorist attack justified in specific cases.

Well you are right, if we make one exception the flood gate opens for more and more and we erode away basic rights that protect innocent people not just terrorists.

On the other hand if I am sitting on info someone is about to kill people and its obtained illegally but I know its 100% accurate its a tough one.  CSIS does not rely on torture alone for info. When it was using Syria as torture agents so to speak there was great deliberation as to what info was being tested. They would not have asked for brand new info based on torture just added info as to names.

Intelligence has an elaborate maze of how it gets info. It classifies the info it needs into categories and each category has a different method of investigation and corroboration. Most intelligence is about names not places and times. Places and times are easily changed but if you know the name, then you can follow him or her and find out the name and place later and how it keeps getting changed.

There are hundreds of thousands of operatives and terrorists. Its like looking for a needle in a hay stack or one coackroach in a sea of them. Unless you can get a tracker on the coackroach, you won't follow them. They literally vanish in thin air.

What CSIS did may have been wrong legally and some would argue ethically, but I would state its done ALL  the time.

You think Russia, Iran, China, don't torture? You think Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan Lebanon don't torture?

If we all knew the extent of torture or info obtained by coercion or duress we would see its widespread and used by many nations.

Doesn't make it right but it makes it very naïve for someone to think terrorists are not stopped because of illegal activities used to prevent those attacks.

I am just surprised how sloppy it has become.

Getting a person to talk today is possible with the use of new and improved drugs and psychological techniques that do not cause pain. I sometimes think the torture stories are disinformation or false stories to draw people away from the actual info that was obtained. You and I will never know. There is more disinformation given to us about how people are interrogated than true information. Its the nature of the beast.

When we read stories in the newspaper, some of what is reported is true, but the majority may not be and that is because its done to keep us off track so as not to jeopardize true activities. A little truth sprinkled in with a lot of b.s. is the best way to cover up a true intelligence operation.

That said much of what we see is nothing but a series of chaotic reactions by unprepared  idiots and we would have no way of knowing otherwise.

I myself do not think the people sent to Syria were innocent. I think they played us and they are laughing at us and going to use their money to engage in further terrorism and eventually they will get caught. Ask O. J.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Rue said:

CSIS being in a specific kind of business gets info that is illegal but 100% accurate and so they know when people are terrorists but can no[sic] be proven

Of course it can be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt - the USA are the terrorists and Canada and CSIS are also terrorists supporting arch terrorists. 

All the people denying this are like junior high school kids picking on a minority group and then pretending to be surprised when they get punched in the nose. Two illegal invasions of sovereign nations, the ultimate war crime, all based on lies which the deluded merrily pretend that they are actually deluded about, when in reality, they support deeply evil people. 

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2 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Why don't soldiers launch a class action lawsuit against the government? They have a far more valid argument and have returned with injuries and PTSD we refuse to address. The government (we the people) actually sent them over there, we bring them back and then kick them to the curb.

But we don't have the will to fight frivolous lawsuits brought on by Khadr nand company?  

This is what Canada is becoming?

I am g lad you said this with Nov. 11 coming up, First I would say not soldiers...family members of soldiers or citizens.

Soldiers will not or should not have to  sully their code of honour, dignity and reputations and ask for money or compensation from this government. If it was not already given to them we should not expect them to ask. We should ask for them.  They chose by free will to go. If they suffer now you have to understand they will suffer in silence rather thank ask  government that sent them that won't help them, for help. Its a point of honour.

I hope family members and concerned citizens start a suit but focus on benefits.

It is a sorry day with Nov. 11 coming up that we compensate Kadr millions while our soldiers continue to  suffer in silence.

Its hard to explain you'd have to ask a soldier not me, but asking them to sue for help would make them feel like they are undermining what they did. You can't expect them to do that.

PTSD in soldiers starts by thanking a soldier, period.  Respect their privacy and if they talk you listen but the best thing you an do is say thank you and shake their hand. We must make the first move in the healing process by saying thank you. I know it  sounds so simple but its that important. You also can not expect a vet to tell you about their pain. They will not. They might with other soldiers talk but not to you or me.  They also will not talk about themselves but they will indirectly share experiences with other soldiers but never to make themselves look good just to express regret they would have liked to have done something other then what they did. You must understand PTSD is not about feeling sorry for oneself its about regretting what one thinks they did and should not have or should h ave done and did not. Its like they second guess themselves over and over and don't forgive themselves.

So they do  well talking to other soldiers in groups or one on one with a skilled counselor former vet but trying to talk to a non soldier about it just doesn't work too good.

You know one of the easiest thing we can do for returned vets is fund group facilitation meetings of former soldiers across Canada, equipping certain soldiers with therapy dogs or other animals, helping them find work, making sure they are eating properly and have housing, medical and dental care,  and in  addition to group support, one on one counselling. Its not that expensive and its not being done.

We have existing charities that could be funded to provide more of these services within their existing frameworks but dedicated to vets. The Salvation Army. War Amps, Canadian Mental Health Association, on and on I can think of so many charities already existing not to mention the Canadian Legions or clergy volunteering to do it out of their houses of worship non denominationally.

We can do it. We shouldn't need a law suit. Some are doing it and not waiting for this government.

I think if Nov. 11, can remind us though the poppy campaign of the past sacrifices, I can also be used to talk about our ptsd soldier today.

There is so much we could do at a grass roots level. We have ex soldiers ready to step in We have people ready to help this.

It may be a law suit is needed but it should not let us forget we can do something now.

I say what I say from what vets have told me not presuming to speak for them ever.

All of us can by shaking the hand of a vet and saying thank you, start that healing process and focus away from the Kadrs of the world to the people we should care about.

YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT LET US MAKE THIS ABOUT HONOURING OUR SOLDIERS NOT WASTING ENERGY ON KADR. ITS ABOUT OUR SOLDIERS!

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2 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Why don't soldiers launch a class action lawsuit against the government? They have a far more valid argument and have returned with injuries and PTSD we refuse to address. The government (we the people) actually sent them over there, we bring them back and then kick them to the curb.

But we don't have the will to fight frivolous lawsuits brought on by Khadr nand company?  

This is what Canada is becoming?

You have this completely backwards. It was our government that wasted time and treasure trying to duck our responsibility, liability etc etc...apparently that's how Canadians like their government to roll.

As for our soldiers...they're simply volunteers who knew or should have known what they were in for when signing up for Ottawa's overseas military adventures.

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21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

As for our soldiers...they're simply volunteers who knew or should have known what they were in for when signing up for Ottawa's overseas military adventures.

Yes, as president Trump recently said. "They knew what they were signing up for."

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes, as president Trump recently said. "They knew what they were signing up for."

You quote the super liar. They actually didn't know what they were signing up for [great US propaganda]  but they, and you do know now - the illegal invasion of sovereign nations, the ultimate war crime, the war crime for which Nazis were hung. 

If even a few of the myriad US war criminals were hung, the world would be a much more peaceful place. People around the world would appreciate this show of justice. 

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2 hours ago, Rue said:

Soldiers will not or should not have to  sully their code of honour, dignity and reputations and ask for money or compensation from this government. If it was not already given to them we should not expect them to ask.

Any soldier who buys into this kind of crap, above, is of a stupidity of the highest order. They are no different than workers who would, and should ask for workers compensation. 

There is no honor at all in the illegal invasion of sovereign nations, all based on the rankest, most transparent of lies. 

There is no honor in supporting the war criminals/terrorists/baby killers [USA/UK] who planned the genocide against the Iraqi people.

There is no honor in people who support such deeply evil people. 

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On 11/1/2017 at 6:14 AM, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

How could a court find us liable for these situations but offer no alternatives? If government appointed individuals condoned these acts against Canadian citizens then they should be held accountable... 

That would require honorable people who would speak out against the war criminals/terrorists who planned and orchestrated these illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US and the UK, all based on the usual lies, this time the most transparent, phony of lies, the ones that have, always had, zero evidence to support them. 

What gullible people most Americans, so many canucks are!

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On 10/31/2017 at 3:24 PM, Goddess said:

He got caught red-handed in terrorist activities in Aghanistan and hauled off to Guantanamo and apparently "Canada" didn't save him from Guantanamo.

It's truly amazing how gullible some folks are. The US/UK has lied its ass off about everything as regards I & A and here you are taking the side of these consummate liars. 

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Here's an idea - maybe if you don't get involved with terrorists, you won't get hauled off to Guantanamo.

Wow, you are supporting, with the grandest degree of hypocrisy, the biggest terrorists on the planet, Goddess, with no shame whatsoever. 

First of all, the US has zero right to even have Guantanamo; that is Cuban property. Second, the US has no right, legal or moral, to have black hole torture chambers around the world.

Why are you folks such avid supporters of an evil that is easily the equivalent of the Nazis?

What is it that you can't seem to grasp about the US/UK having illegally invaded Iraq & Afghanistan, the ultimate war crime? All based on lies!!

Even if Iraq had WMDs, the invasions, as carried out, would still be illegal, and that goes for Afghanistan too. Not to mention the war crimes, the terrorist actions in Libya and Syria. 

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On 10/31/2017 at 2:24 PM, PIK said:

For what? Killing americans and canadians?

All these lies you hear from US consummate liars/propagandists,  and you trot out this nonsense as evidence. Amazing!!

Quote

He was given 10.5m and a apology from all of us.

That is so Canada doesn't have to ask for US war criminals to be extradited to the Hague.

Typical cowards all, Canucks, Brits, Aussies, and especially USians, who love to bomb villagers from 35,000 feet. 

 

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On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎05 at 12:20 PM, OftenWrong said:

Yes, as president Trump recently said. "They knew what they were signing up for."

I am not sure what was more pathetic. Eye's idiotic comment, " As for our soldiers...they're simply volunteers who knew or should have known what they were in for when signing up for Ottawa's overseas military adventures..." or the equally as idiotic and childish comments of Hot Enough who  couldn't figure out you were making a sarcastic response to Eye.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of children on this forum who live sheltered protected lives and assume their freedom and lifestyle came without a price.

On the one hand we have one who makes flippant remarks passing off sacrifice as something we should take for granted and downplay, and then we have the other  calling soldiers coward

I had to cool it a few days before I responded when I saw the idiot responses to you. I am glad you did not respond further.  They aren't worth any further responses. You were however.

 

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On 11/5/2017 at 12:20 PM, OftenWrong said:

Yes, as president Trump recently said. "They knew what they were signing up for."

I am not sure that 18-25 year olds know what they are signing up for.  I barely had a grasp on geo-politics and did not understand much.  Hell many people still have no idea what goes on outside of 'reality tv'.

I sure would not be signing up knowing what I know now.

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3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am not sure that 18-25 year olds know what they are signing up for.  I barely had a grasp on geo-politics and did not understand much.  Hell many people still have no idea what goes on outside of 'reality tv'.

I sure would not be signing up knowing what I know now.

Ok, but I've watched people I know get completely transformed by it. They went from welfare junkie with no future to a fit, intelligent young man with a renewed purpose in life. I could tell, he knew what he was getting in to.

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4 hours ago, Rue said:

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of children on this forum who live sheltered protected lives and assume their freedom and lifestyle came without a price.

It never ceases to amaze the ludicrous shop worn propagandist comments that supposed adults keep making to maintain the crazy hype that has allowed the USA to wreck hundreds of millions of lives [yes, the lousy Brits before them]. 

What kind of willfully blind idiots do not know that the USA and the UK have been stealing ME oil for close to a century? 

Nobody has ever threatened any North American. Had Germany defeated the Brits, the US and Canada would be doing brisk business with whatever government  followed. 

The US got into WWII because they saw a grand opportunity to sweep up European SE Asian colonies. 

The US got into WWII just as they get into all their illegal wars, 93 percent of the years of their existence as a BLOODY "nation" with typical US trademark perfidy. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am not sure that 18-25 year olds know what they are signing up for.  I barely had a grasp on geo-politics and did not understand much.  Hell many people still have no idea what goes on outside of 'reality tv'.

I sure would not be signing up knowing what I know now.

Their parents should have known Ottawa would likely leave them high and dry.  

Recall we're talking about compensation for government irresponsibility here.  Anyone who wants to be a soldier in Canada should be well aware by now of the legendary neglect Ottawa is known for when it comes to soldiers.  I wouldn't have become a fisherman if I'd realized how corrupt and dysfunctional Ottawa's mismanagement would be.  Ignorance was certainly no excuse when things turned to shit there.

As for the assholes who don't like it when someone takes soldiers to task for their situation vis a vis the government's responsibilities or lack thereof, they should put their money where their mouths are and sell war-bonds and compensate soldiers themselves.

Everyone associates themselves with their government at their own peril.  When people associate themselves with the military aims of Ottawa they take on an added weight of moral responsibility and if there's anything that should give a would-be solder or his family a reason for pausing to consider, that would be it.

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