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Sailors in trouble for being patriotic


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So like other places across Canada natives in Halifax used the occasion to decry Canada as an illegitimate country, call us all settlers and colonists, and complain about how mistreated they've been in the past. Six navy guys wandered over carrying an old Canada flag and singing God Save the Queen. There's no indication they said anything racist or behaved violently, but apparently they're in big trouble for expressing their 'disrespect' to the natives. Does anyone think if six natives had interrupted Canada Day festivities to call us all settlers and colonists and say we were on their land and should go 'home' that the navy or military or government would be taking any action against them? Not a chance! So it's okay to express your political views if they are hatred of Canada, but not allowed if they are patriotic about Canada. 

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/five+servicemen+involved+incident+indigenous+ceremony+canada/13596204/story.html

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Why don't you just stop responding to my posts since all you ever do is whine about how they don't meet with your approval? Face the fact that my posts, coming from someone a little to the right of ce

Maybe you should post a list of topics that meets your newly established list of approved topics....or perhaps stick to moderating, that would be something new ....    instead of attacking other poste

Did they try to shut it down?  A witness to the interaction says the men kept their voices down as the ceremony continued and left after about 10 minutes. FN have no more right to be free f

If Canadian military personnel arrived at one of your anti-Muslim demonstrations and started shutting it down would you care ?


We'd be hearing all about Trudeau's stormtroopers and LGBT warriors.  Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone.

 

Thanks,

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8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If Canadian military personnel arrived at one of your anti-Muslim demonstrations and started shutting it down would you care ?


We'd be hearing all about Trudeau's stormtroopers and LGBT warriors.  Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone.

 

Thanks,

Why don't you just stop responding to my posts since all you ever do is whine about how they don't meet with your approval? Face the fact that my posts, coming from someone a little to the right of centre, are never going to make a far left progressive SJW like yourself anything but angry.

Until Greg gives you permission to ban all conservatives from the site, though, you'll just have to put up with me.

Edited by Argus
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24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If Canadian military personnel arrived at one of your anti-Muslim demonstrations and started shutting it down would you care ?


We'd be hearing all about Trudeau's stormtroopers and LGBT warriors.  Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone.

 

Thanks,

Did they try to shut it down? 

A witness to the interaction says the men kept their voices down as the ceremony continued and left after about 10 minutes.

FN have no more right to be free from peaceful counter demonstrations than the rest of us.

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41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If Canadian military personnel arrived at one of your anti-Muslim demonstrations and started shutting it down would you care ?


We'd be hearing all about Trudeau's stormtroopers and LGBT warriors.  Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone.

 

Thanks,

And, what would you say if it gays, women or BLM interrupting some straight white folks?  

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34 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Did they try to shut it down? 

A witness to the interaction says the men kept their voices down as the ceremony continued and left after about 10 minutes.

FN have no more right to be free from peaceful counter demonstrations than the rest of us.

The 'ceremony' btw, was at a statue to the first governor of Nova Scotia, General Cornwallis, and was meant to condemn him for his alleged genocidal attacks on the Mi'kmaq of the region. This is how natives 'celebrate' Canada day, by condemning us all and our ancestors.

In point of fact, if you look up Cornwallis on wiki it says he was ordered to establish a post at Halifax, so had no choice, and that his post, as well as British civilians and ships were then repeatedly and violently attacked by Mi'kmaq warriors. I see nothing of a genocide. He did offere money for Mi'kmaq scalps but that was the practice of the New Englanders nearby, and the French offered the Mi'kmaq and Acadians fighting him money for British scalps. There's no evidence his offer of money for scalps ever got him more than one or two though. He eventually negotiated a peace treaty with the natives, then left, and it was signed by his successor. The natives then continued their attacks and his successor tore up the peace treaty.

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35 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

And, what would you say if it gays, women or BLM interrupting some straight white folks?  

We all know the answer to that. For that matter, he had no objection to BLM interrupting the pride parade in Toronto last year.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

If Canadian military personnel arrived at one of your anti-Muslim demonstrations and started shutting it down would you care ?


We'd be hearing all about Trudeau's stormtroopers and LGBT warriors.  Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone.

This is a VERY important topic, it's about freedom of speech and right to protest.  Did these military guys (out of uniform and off duty) try and shut down their event?  They don't really have the power to do that.  What they were doing it seems is that they were confronting the protesters and objecting to their protest.  A protest of the protest.  All is see is them walking down to the protesters and having a conversion with them, there's no violence or physical threats from what I see so far.  I could be wrong if other info comes to light, but that's what I see from this article/video on cbc

I'm not taking any stand on who's political opinions are right/wrong, that's another issue entirely, but who's ACTIONS are right/wrong here?  Keeping in mind that civil servants and military personnel have codes of conduct relating to political activity, but these men don't seem to be trying to represent the Canadian military either & it doesn't seem like their "proud boys" group have been prevented by the military/government in the past for their political activity, hence the group still exists. 

What it seems is that these soldiers (out of uniform, off duty) said some controversial stuff to a victimized group (who were also saying a few controversial things) & it is embarrassing to the military/government on a PR front. The military/gov doesn't want to look like they or their members (especially all white men) are trying to oppress the rights of natives, which I get, but does this conflict with these soldier's rights to say things the PR machine doesn't want them to say?  Tough call...

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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24 minutes ago, Argus said:

The 'ceremony' btw, was at a statue to the first governor of Nova Scotia, General Cornwallis, and was meant to condemn him for his alleged genocidal attacks on the Mi'kmaq of the region. This is how natives 'celebrate' Canada day, by condemning us all and our ancestors.

In point of fact, if you look up Cornwallis on wiki it says he was ordered to establish a post at Halifax, so had no choice, and that his post, as well as British civilians and ships were then repeatedly and violently attacked by Mi'kmaq warriors. I see nothing of a genocide. He did offere money for Mi'kmaq scalps but that was the practice of the New Englanders nearby, and the French offered the Mi'kmaq and Acadians fighting him money for British scalps. There's no evidence his offer of money for scalps ever got him more than one or two though. He eventually negotiated a peace treaty with the natives, then left, and it was signed by his successor. The natives then continued their attacks and his successor tore up the peace treaty.

 

Some of the media also seemed confused re that there were TWO Lord Cornwallis-es: Charles and Edward. Charles was at Yorktown...Edward the Governor of Gibraltar (and founder of Halifax). Dummies...

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

Why don't you just stop responding to my posts since all you ever do is whine about how they don't meet with your approval? 

Why don't you stop responding to mine if my disapproval doesn't meet your approval ?

I never said I had a problem with your points of view, nor (*chortle*) does it make me "angry", but that they are dreary.  Unfortunately, being able to spell and articulate an idea - your ideas are the best offered here from the right-of-centre so I have no choice but to complain... and hope for better.


Cheers...

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5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why don't you stop responding to mine if my disapproval doesn't meet your approval ?

I never said I had a problem with your points of view, nor (*chortle*) does it make me "angry", but that they are dreary.  Unfortunately, being able to spell and articulate an idea - your ideas are the best offered here from the right-of-centre so I have no choice but to complain... and hope for better.


Cheers...

I regard your pointless posts as little more than ideologically driven harassment, actually. They don't speak to the topic but just complain that you don't like the topic.

Edited by Argus
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1) This is a VERY important topic, it's about freedom of speech and right to protest.

2) Keeping in mind that civil servants and military personnel have codes of conduct relating to political activity,  

1) Agreed.  It's not presented as anything but a pot-stirrer though, as I believe.

2) Exactly.  Those who are ready to leap onto their pogo sticks of outrage usually do so context-free, so this controversy is really served up warm for those who just have nothing better to talk about.  Moving on....

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1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Agreed.  It's not presented as anything but a pot-stirrer though, as I believe.

2) Exactly.  Those who are ready to leap onto their pogo sticks of outrage usually do so context-free, so this controversy is really served up warm for those who just have nothing better to talk about.  Moving on....

Maybe we should spend page after page discussing Wonder Woman and how no one should enjoy television or movies which don't contain proper ideological and societal messages that elitist snobs would approve of...

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

I regard your pointless posts as little more than ideologically driven harassment, actually. They don't speak to the topic but just complain that you don't like the topic.

I'm sorry that you were offended.  If you care to drive to Toronto I can provide a hanky, however you are accusing me of lying here.  I am fine with the topic, and in particular with you. You have the ability to convince me and others, so please do so.   As Oscar Wilde said:

 

It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde134608.html

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Maybe we should spend page after page discussing Wonder Woman and how no one should enjoy television or movies which don't contain proper ideological and societal messages that elitist snobs would approve of...

Whatever in heck could you be referring to Argus ?

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I guess i'm just tired of people basing their conclusions on group identity, rather than the issue at hand.  It reminds me of the Trump rallies, Bernie people would show up, start fights and the media would talk about Trump having violent rallies.  It's so thinly veiled, but if some people buy into it...I guess it works.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm sorry that you were offended.  If you care to drive to Toronto I can provide a hanky, however you are accusing me of lying here.  I am fine with the topic,

  "Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone". - Michael H

I would say you are pretty clearly NOT fine with the topic. Nor have you contributed anything to it. If you weren't a moderator Charles H would probably delete your posts as off topic.

 

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I'm sure Edward Cornwallis thought there must be a pretty good reason to offer a bounty for Mi'kmaq whose cooperation and assistance would normally be sought...

The Mi'kmaq attacked both the French and British forces in the region. Cornwallis and the French offered Native ranger units (Wabanaki, etc) a bounty on their heads. However, something like only ONE scalp was ever turned-in. So get that image of evil Redcoats bashing-in innocent heads with muskets out of the current fantasy....heh.

;)

 

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"The two groups exchanged words. The man who was carrying the flag said, "You're disrespecting General Cornwallis." "

If you can't disrespect Hitler, PolPot, the Queen of England, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Tony Blair, ... you can't disrespect General Cornwallis.

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4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I guess i'm just tired of people basing their conclusions on group identity, rather than the issue at hand.   

Here's another example of why such posters are tedious to reply to.  Here we see same guy who is tired of people basing conclusions on group identity says:

Quote

Muslims are about 2 steps out of the stone age - and that's just maybe.  

Why should anybody to reply to arguments that are never modified and a reflect a complete lack of willingness to admit their incorrectness ?

As for your response - I don't expect you will concede what you have done here, or understand it.   

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What it seems is that these soldiers (out of uniform, off duty) said some controversial stuff to a victimized group (who were also saying a few controversial things) & it is embarrassing to the military/government on a PR front. The military/gov doesn't want to look like they or their members (especially all white men) are trying to oppress the rights of natives, which I get, but does this conflict with these soldier's rights to say things the PR machine doesn't want them to say?  Tough call...

As I said in the OP, you can be damned sure that if native members of the military had interrupted a ceremony there would be no response from the government or military. These people did nothing illegal, said nothing racist, and were exercising their freedom as citizens to discuss issues of interest to them (something many on the Left have extreme problems with). It seems it's fine to protest against Canada but not for it. It's fine to call Canadians settlers and colonists and dispute their right to be here, but not acceptable to turn on those who say such things and remind them of a few honest truths.

Further, there was an article in the post from John Robson today in which he suggested that some, even much of the 'appreciation' many have for Trump is that at least sometimes he'd willing to state blunt conservative messages - ie, reality. We are expected to take insult after insult and sneering put-downs from the Left and from every left wing activist group but never respond with anything but timid smiles and apologies - and money. A lot of people are extremely frustrated about that, and if the only person they see standing up to it is someone like Trump, well, they're willing to go with that.

Bill Maher has said one of the reasons many voted for Trump and wouldn't support Clinton was the stupid left wing identity politics she and the Democrats engaged in - the same sort of thing Liberals and NDP engage in here.

Edited by Argus
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3 minutes ago, Argus said:

  "Spare us the fake tears, and move on to some real topics as you're boring the pants off everyone". - Michael H

I would say you are pretty clearly NOT fine with the topic. Nor have you contributed anything to it. If you weren't a moderator Charles H would probably delete your posts as off topic.

 

Perhaps they will be deleted, but I have been heard in any case.I appreciate the response that I get when I post.    Thanks for reading me, as usual.  

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

So like other places across Canada natives in Halifax used the occasion to decry Canada as an illegitimate country, call us all settlers and colonists, and complain about how mistreated they've been in the past.

Genocide is far beyond mistreatment. Canada isn't an illegitimate country, Canada is a legitimate genocidal country. All the whining in the world from you, Argus, can't ever change the facts. 

 

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