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The Battle of Charlottesville

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1 minute ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Now if only he will call the demonstration out for what it really was. A KKK and anti Semite demonstration espousing hate towards noncaucasions. This is what 'lets make America great again' is really about. 

 

 

Always was part of America as it became "great" the first time.

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18 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are an apologist for the violent hatred espoused by the far left at this rally. 

You are confused   It's the KKK and anti-Semitism that was spewing hatred. 

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USS Robert E. Lee (SSBN-601), a George Washington class fleet ballistic missile submarine, one of the USA's "41 for freedom".

 

450px-USS_Robert_E._Lee_(SSBN-601).jpg

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14 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

You are confused   It's the KKK and anti-Semitism that was spewing hatred. 

Not the least bit confused. If you look at the videos for more than a few seconds its pretty clear that both sides are screaming hatred at each other - not to mention showing it through physical violence.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

What did the anti fascists do to warrant Trump's criticism?  The fascists drove a car into the crowd.

The anti fascists acted in a fascist manner, negating the fact they call themselves anti fascist. Argus explained it very well. 

Famous saying. "Even a serial killer thinks he's a good guy". Or something like that. Someone claiming to be anti fascist shutting down free speech is still a fascist, no matter what he thinks.

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Yes, Trump is publicly disassociating himself from the white supremacists ... 'tepidly' anyway ... but that's his base, so it's risky for him. 

Beating 'lefties' with burning torches, ramming cars into crowds of 'lefties' ... this is what he has fueled, I think.

It remains to be seen whether the extreme right turns on him, or turns more violent against 'the left', or both.

Ironic you bring that up after actions lefties did to stop free speech  the last decade or so.

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These Nazi/White Nationalist groups have always have their rallies, nothing new about that.  The problem is that in the last couple years, these people have seen their religion trampled, their flags taken away and now their monuments taken, essentially, their culture is being taken from them.  To them General Lee was more than a racist and their confederate flag means more than "oppression of black people".  

Now,  I have no sympathy for the White Nationalist groups to be sure, but I also don't think it's helpful to have radical leftist groups show up with clear intent to riot.  Now, the problem is that the media and democrats have decided to give "permission" for violence against the White Nationalist group.  The left has pushed too far, too fast and what happened yesterday is the result.  

Again, I don't agree with any hate group, but I can see how things have escalated, not only yesterday, but at every rally since Trumps presidency.  This is not Trumps fault any more than the Scalise shooting was Bernie's fault.  If one was to watch the events of the other day without knowing which side held which view, it would obvious that the Antifa group was the aggressor.

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3 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Again, I don't agree with any hate group, but I can see how things have escalated, not only yesterday, but at every rally since Trumps presidency.  This is not Trumps fault any more than the Scalise shooting was Bernie's fault.  If one was to watch the events of the other day without knowing which side held which view, it would obvious that the Antifa group was the aggressor.

It really started not long ago, the violence that is, when Antifa attacked Trump supporters during a free speech rally (irony) at Berkely, supposedly the home of free speech. Note the antifa types routinely wear black hoodies and masks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCJI-3gRjz0

It certainly looks like very nearly complete incompetence by the police the other day in even trying to keep the two groups apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s8R_cGgvFY

Edited by Argus

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Probably won't be long before they do, and why should we be surprised when they do?

A civil war between the left and right is inevitable if not necessary.

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10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They didn't kill anyone, though.  

Aren't you one of those who keeps demanding that all Muslims not be blamed for the actions of a few... hundreds of thousands of them?

 

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6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Aren't you one of those who keeps demanding that all Muslims not be blamed for the actions of a few... hundreds of thousands of them?

 

I don't think all conservatives should be blamed for the actions of the few, no.

 

But it doesn't matter.  The refusal to condemn means open season on right wingers, and retaliation.  Nothing we write matters.

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8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think all conservatives should be blamed for the actions of the few, no.

 

But it doesn't matter.  The refusal to condemn means open season on right wingers, and retaliation.  Nothing we write matters.

The only  refusal to condemn I see on this topic is your refusal and the refusal of others on the Left to condemn the violence of the far left, who not only started the violence here, but started it prior to this. Everyone else here has been clear in condemning the rightists. Hell, even many Republicans have been blunt in condemning the white supremacy types. It's curious that you refuse to utter a word of condemnation for the violent leftists.

 

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6 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are an apologist for the violent hatred espoused by the far left at this rally. Speculation? It's not speculation that they came to block the racists from their rally. They said it openly and carried weapons, shields and helmets. Do you concur with their belief that only those who agree with you should be allowed to publicly state their views?

The violent hatred of white supremacist Nazis, so good on them. 

But the ACLU went to court to allow the Nazis to rally, so maybe not all the left is opposed to free speech. At this point, though, I don't think there are any Trump supporters left who aren't Nazis.

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Just now, Chrissy1979 said:

The violent hatred of white supremacist Nazis, so good on them. 

But the ACLU went to court to allow the Nazis to rally, so maybe not all the left is opposed to free speech. At this point, though, I don't think there are any Trump supporters left who aren't Nazis.

Trump has almost as many supporters as he had before the election according to the polls. If they're all Nazis the world is in trouble.

I didn't say all the Left is, but clearly there is a deep reluctance to offer up criticism of those who act to violently suppress free speech, as long as their targets are Nazis and white supremacists.

The problem is that laws don't allow for singular exceptions. If anyone gets to decide this or that speech shouldn't be protected because it offends, then everyone's speech can be banned because it offends.

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23 minutes ago, Argus said:

It's curious that you refuse to utter a word of condemnation for the violent leftists.

 

I condemn that violence, but murder needs to be called out.  It won't be, as we already see taxme's theory that Soros is behind it all.

 

And again it doesn't matter.  This is going to escalate.

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I condemn that violence, but murder needs to be called out.  It won't be, as we already see taxme's theory that Soros is behind it all.

 

And again it doesn't matter.  This is going to escalate.

It has been escalating steadily since Berkely. You didn't notice? I mentioned the street fighting to you a while ago. There are videos of similar violent confrontations across the US all over Youtube. Most are between the far left and Trump supporters. This is the first one I've seen between the far left and white supremacists - though typically Antifa calls everyone a racist and a Nazi if they support trump or oppose Islam.

Taxme's idiotic theories are hardly a substantive cause for deciding murder won't be condemned. It has been condemned by a wide array of Republicans. I was actually surprised even FOX has been actively and roundly condemning not only the murder but all the white supremacists and their behaviour.

Edited by Argus
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I think that they're concerned about the beast they helped create.  Remember Trump offering to pay the legal bills for anyone who attacked q protester?

This nascent violence is being awoken.

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9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that they're concerned about the beast they helped create.  Remember Trump offering to pay the legal bills for anyone who attacked q protester?

This nascent violence is being awoken.

And to repeat, it woke up at Berkely. five or six months ago. The Trump supporters then were just guys in T-shirts. We've seen tons of anti-Trump rallies in the last six months, all across the country. None had violence except between some protestors and police, probably because there wasn't really much in the way of counter protests. The violence only comes at pro-Trump rallies because masses of leftist counter-protestors show up. Look at the violence in Portland last month as raging leftist protestors fought it out with Trump supporters holding demos.

Edited by Argus

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

They didn't kill anyone, though.  

Yes, somebody was killed.  Nobody here condones the action of that guy - those are facts!  Other facts are thus; The Antifa group came looking to start trouble.  The Antifa group, if you watched the live stream were the aggressors nearly every time there was an outburst.  Every rally, speech or gathering of those who Antifa disagrees with, ends up in rioting.  Sorry, I have no love for the White Nationalists, but they have their rights and should be left to demonstrate just as we accept the "Pride" groups and the "BLM" groups - among others.  

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees the irony in the "anti-fascist" group travelling around beating up people at rallies that they don't support.   

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4 minutes ago, marcus said:

The awkward moment when Zionists agree with some of the racist views of the white nationalists and Nazis.

Where was that?  I missed that.

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31 minutes ago, marcus said:

The awkward moment when Zionists agree with some of the racist views of the white nationalists and Nazis.

You mean the ones who shouted "Jew, Jew, Jew" when Mayor Signer asked all responsible people to go home?

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"Racist views" built America...and they built Canada too.   Still do.

All this excitement might be very upsetting to someone who didn't live through "awkward moments" in the 1960's.

 

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37 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Where was that?  I missed that.

The awkwardness is that Zionist Jews dislike the KKK/Nazis/Angry hillbillies because they have racist feelings towards Jews. But then they both have racist feelings towards Muslims.

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