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Rohingya Issue

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On 10/25/2017 at 7:18 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Perhaps take the discussion back to the greater points: should Canada have a refugee program at all?  how should one of the richest nations on earth administer its humanitarian programs?  You will probably have more of an impact, and get more out of them to discuss such basic principles than detailed responses IMO.

I believe the origin of our refugee program was to take in individuals, normally those targeted by their government for political purposes. It has morphed into taking in tens of thousands of people whose governments don't even know they exist, and who aren't being targeted by anyone. They're simply from areas where there are wars. We can't possibly afford to take in more than a tiny tithe of these people, at enormous expense. You are all hot and bothered by a these Muslims but there are millions more refugees in northern Africa not making the news. More than a million have fled South Sudan alone. Something near four million more have been displaced by fighting in the Congo, not to mention those five million from Syria. We would be of considerably more use funding refugee camps than taking selfies with a few bewildered denizens of desert or jungle villages we bring here to show how kind we are.

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9 hours ago, August1991 said:

The common denominator in this dispute in Burma (as in southern Thailand), or Indonesia, or Iraq, or Somalia or even Brussels and New York City is: Islam.

Actually a far more common denominator is good olde fashioned super-power interference. The Rohingya are descended from foreign labourers that the British Empire imported into Burma. Britain petty much perfected the 'art' of forcing antagonistic people's into the same borders.

Our ignorance today, in 2017, is similar to the ignorance of generals in 1917 who sent soldiers to war.

It's probably even worse.

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On 10/28/2017 at 12:49 PM, Argus said:

1. You are all hot and bothered by a these Muslims but there are millions more refugees in northern Africa not making the news.

2. We would be of considerably more use funding refugee camps than taking selfies with a few bewildered denizens of desert or jungle villages we bring here to show how kind we are.

1. I don't think that's accurate.  I'm just trying to help someone out here.

2. As with so many aspects of our governance, throwing light on the situation as you have done would help, yes.

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On 10/28/2017 at 2:58 PM, eyeball said:

Actually a far more common denominator is good olde fashioned super-power interference. The Rohingya are descended from foreign labourers that the British Empire imported into Burma. Britain petty much perfected the 'art' of forcing antagonistic people's into the same borders.

....

Been there, done that. (Been to Burma, took the train to Mandalay.)

Eyeball, don't blame me or my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents - heck, even my great-great grandparents (all 16 of them).

Many were probably illiterate, I doubt any owned a slave. Devout Christians, all.

To describe the problems today of people in Burma as "good olde fashioned super-power interference" and then refer to British Empire?

Clueless. Utterly clueless.

====

Years ago, sitting in the back of a "bus/truck", I explained in French to a woman in Burma that I was Canadian.

Then I said, the only Burmese I know is "U Thant". And she answered in English, said to me -  I remember, it means "I'm clean."

Edited by August1991

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On 10/27/2017 at 6:05 PM, bcsapper said:

I think God will forgive anyone who claims to be anything in order to not get their head chopped off.  What kind of God wouldn't?

 

:rolleyes:

It's not about what you think.  What makes you think what you think -  - a non-believer - matters at all in this?  A non-believer in God talking about what he thinks God will do. That's funny. :D

It's about what's written, and what they believe.

That kind of response is so common among non-believers - who know diddly squat about the doctrine!

An empty jug making  lots of hollow noises, comes to mind.  Your opinion below is a good example: read the explanation.

 

 

Quote

That said, anyone who really, truly believes, without any doubt whatsoever, should welcome the opportunity to die for their faith.  Hello Heaven!  What's not to like?

That's irrelevant.  You're not the first one to say something similar.

FYI....

Quote

Biblically, we can’t make a case for seeking to be martyrs for the cause of Christ.

Martyrdom is a great privilege  if it is inevitable ...... but it is not to be sought.

Jesus said, “When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next” (Matthew 10:23).

Furthermore, reading through the book of Acts, we see that the early church continually fled from intense persecution (Acts 8:1; 9:25, 30; 14:6; 17:10, 14). In each of these biblical examples, we see the early Christians fleeing persecution and taking all necessary precautions for survival.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-martyrdom.html

 

 

Mind you, I've seen news that says some Christians prefer to stay behind in Syria.  I don't know if faith plays a role in it, but the reason cited was due to familiarity and sentiment - they don't want to leave their homes.

Edited by betsy

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13 hours ago, August1991 said:

Been there, done that. (Been to Burma, took the train to Mandalay.)

Eyeball, don't blame me or my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents - heck, even my great-great grandparents (all 16 of them).

Many were probably illiterate, I doubt any owned a slave. Devout Christians, all.

To describe the problems today of people in Burma as "good olde fashioned super-power interference" and then refer to British Empire?

Clueless. Utterly clueless.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.  Whether the intent was to divide and conquer or simply turn a profit It is a fact that the Rohingya were brought to Burma by the British Empire. If you need another clue to why things are going sideways just look at how unhinged some people in Canada are when foreign labourers are introduced to an economy.   I don't care if your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and great-great grandparents were clueless, what's your excuse?

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On 10/26/2017 at 10:37 AM, taxme said:

I think that Canada should mind it's own business. I have come to the conclusion many years ago that the third world is a total waste of time and tax dollars for Canadians to keep on concerning themselves about something that we cannot control or fix. And bringing thousands of refugees over here every year is not going to solve their problem, but only will add to our problems. Enough already. 

I agree that Canada should mind its own business. A lot of what we're seeing today is due to the fact that the West has not minded its own business. Instead, we have gone to many areas around the world (South America, Middle East, South Asia, Africa) and have helped to nurture an environment where progress is blocked. This is done by military action, installing puppet regimes and trying to have control over them economically. Whether it's for resources (oil/gas/minerals/etc) or geo-political and doing the dirty work for countries like Saudi (Yemen/Iran) and Israel (Iraq/Iran). We're addicted to wars because they sell weapons. You know, Trump, during his campaign, played the non-interventionist, but now he has doubled down on Obama's wars. He actually made comments that we should mind our own business. But he's done a total 180 on that.

A major part of the mess is the West's role in those areas. There are hundreds of examples of this and one of the most notable is Iraq. Fake WMD, attack, create a shithole where infestation and ISIS is able to grow and spread.

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2 hours ago, marcus said:

I agree that Canada should mind its own business. A lot of what we're seeing today is due to the fact that the West has not minded its own business. Instead, we have gone to many areas around the world (South America, Middle East, South Asia, Africa) and have helped to nurture an environment where progress is blocked. This is done by military action, installing puppet regimes and trying to have control over them economically. Whether it's for resources (oil/gas/minerals/etc) or geo-political and doing the dirty work for countries like Saudi (Yemen/Iran) and Israel (Iraq/Iran). We're addicted to wars because they sell weapons. You know, Trump, during his campaign, played the non-interventionist, but now he has doubled down on Obama's wars. He actually made comments that we should mind our own business. But he's done a total 180 on that.

A major part of the mess is the West's role in those areas. There are hundreds of examples of this and one of the most notable is Iraq. Fake WMD, attack, create a shithole where infestation and ISIS is able to grow and spread.

Don't blame Trump. Blame the zionist globalist elite establishment that has been behind all the wars and conflicts since pretty much America was born. They have pretty much always ran and ruled the world way before Trump came along. Trump is pretty much surrounded by the deep state, and that is why many of Trump's programs and agendas cannot go anywhere. The RINO traitors in his own party are making life difficult for Trump. Trump has a lot of swamp cleaning to do if he is ever going to succeed in his wanting to make America great again. I must agree with you that the West is the problem. They have created the shit hole that we all have to live and put up with. But hey. 

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What I find odd, is all the attention given to muslim refugees, like the syrians, rohinga, somalia, and how they get first class tickets to the west, but all the christians being butchered by muslims in congo by the millions are ignored by the bias media.

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On 10/30/2017 at 11:57 AM, eyeball said:

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.  Whether the intent was to divide and conquer or simply turn a profit It is a fact that the Rohingya were brought to Burma by the British Empire.

....

Eyeball, clueless.

"...the Rohingya were brought to Burma by the British Empire..."

So, the British imperialists planned all this?

=====

And according to Mark Steyn, "... the radical Islamists were brought to Canada by the Liberal Party... "

So, the federal Liberal Party planned all this?

===

Between British imperialists - and Canada's federal Liberal Party; much against my instinct, I defer to British imperialist. 

 

 

 

To blame the "crisis  

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13 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Eyeball, clueless.

"...the Rohingya were brought to Burma by the British Empire..."

So, the British imperialists planned all this?

Did I say they planned it?  No, I simply said it was a more common denominator than the one you suggested.

Please respond to what I said not what you heard.

Edited by eyeball

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On 10/28/2017 at 9:49 AM, Argus said:

I believe the origin of our refugee program was to take in individuals, normally those targeted by their government for political purposes. It has morphed into taking in tens of thousands of people whose governments don't even know they exist, and who aren't being targeted by anyone. They're simply from areas where there are wars. We can't possibly afford to take in more than a tiny tithe of these people, at enormous expense. You are all hot and bothered by a these Muslims but there are millions more refugees in northern Africa not making the news. More than a million have fled South Sudan alone. Something near four million more have been displaced by fighting in the Congo, not to mention those five million from Syria. We would be of considerably more use funding refugee camps than taking selfies with a few bewildered denizens of desert or jungle villages we bring here to show how kind we are.

Well, you will be happy to hear that Trudeau and his Pakastani immigration minister have decided to allow 1 million more legal and illegal so-called refugees into this country in the next three years. And after that the quotas will go higher. I am pretty sure that there will be plenty more refugees coming to Canada that the taxpayer's are going to have to pay for the pleasure of their company. We have an immigration problem here but yet there are some here who just that this is all just dandy. Well, I can say this with confidence that it is not going to be just dandy for the Caucasian people in this country. This is going to turn out to be a bloody disaster if it is allowed to continue. The writing is on the wall. Start reading it. 

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On 11/1/2017 at 11:28 PM, taxme said:

Well, you will be happy to hear that Trudeau and his Pakastani immigration minister have decided to allow 1 million more legal and illegal so-called refugees into this country in the next three years. And after that the quotas will go higher. I am pretty sure that there will be plenty more refugees coming to Canada that the taxpayer's are going to have to pay for the pleasure of their company. We have an immigration problem here but yet there are some here who just that this is all just dandy. Well, I can say this with confidence that it is not going to be just dandy for the Caucasian people in this country. This is going to turn out to be a bloody disaster if it is allowed to continue. The writing is on the wall. Start reading it. 

Dude.

Pakastani (sic)? Do a little research before you type. He's not from Pakistan.

The government is currently letting 300,000 immigrants a year. The government is slowly increasing that. Why? Because we're not having enough children and we have the baby boomers retiring. This means that we have a large number of people going into retirement, and we need workers and taxpayers to make up for that. 

There is a difference between immigrants and refugees. The number of refugees that come into Canada is much lower than immigrants.

 

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On 10/30/2017 at 11:33 PM, H10 said:

What I find odd, is all the attention given to muslim refugees, like the syrians, rohinga, somalia, and how they get first class tickets to the west, but all the christians being butchered by muslims in congo by the millions are ignored by the bias media.

On 10/30/2017 at 9:55 AM, marcus said:

I agree that Canada should mind its own business. A lot of what we're seeing today is due to the fact that the West has not minded its own business. Instead, we have gone to many areas around the world (South America, Middle East, South Asia, Africa) and have helped to nurture an environment where progress is blocked. This is done by military action, installing puppet regimes and trying to have control over them economically. Whether it's for resources (oil/gas/minerals/etc) or geo-political and doing the dirty work for countries like Saudi (Yemen/Iran) and Israel (Iraq/Iran). We're addicted to wars because they sell weapons. You know, Trump, during his campaign, played the non-interventionist, but now he has doubled down on Obama's wars. He actually made comments that we should mind our own business. But he's done a total 180 on that.

A major part of the mess is the West's role in those areas. There are hundreds of examples of this and one of the most notable is Iraq. Fake WMD, attack, create a shithole where infestation and ISIS is able to grow and spread.

 

On 10/30/2017 at 11:33 PM, H10 said:

What I find odd, is all the attention given to muslim refugees, like the syrians, rohinga, somalia, and how they get first class tickets to the west, but all the christians being butchered by muslims in congo by the millions are ignored by the bias media.

I agree. There appears to be a hatred going on against Christianity all over the Western Christian world. I believe the reason for that is that Christianity is the stumbling block and in the way for the globalist zionist elite to be able to take over the world.  As long a there is Christianity in the world and still thriving the communist devil can't complete it's mission of domination over the world. In the West Islam is the elites choice for immigration to the West. Maybe they are trying to get a religious war going one day in the West. After all, they are very good at starting wars. Hey, you never know. 

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On 11/1/2017 at 9:42 PM, August1991 said:

...To blame the "crisis  

In the meantime what about not doing anything about the crisis? When, where and at whom do we assign blame for that?

This is a situation where I'd have little issue with implementing a military solution aimed at putting the Burmese Army out of business.

Quote

 

Destruction of Rohingya villages continues: Human Rights Watch

Satellite images show villages burned after Myanmar and Bangladesh signed safe return agreement.

Story

 

 

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On 11/5/2017 at 11:31 PM, marcus said:

 The government is currently letting 300,000 immigrants a year. The government is slowly increasing that. Why? Because we're not having enough children and we have the baby boomers retiring. This means that we have a large number of people going into retirement, and we need workers and taxpayers to make up for that. 

As has been pointed out on here by @Argus increasing immigration in the short term doesn't help that problem.  There is 'conventional economics' that says growth is good, population increase is good, and this orthodoxy is followed even if the governments that institute it are terrible at planning for increased capacity, even if they make cities like Toronto overcrowded and don't fund infrastructure etc.

Of course, these things can be fixed without reducing or pausing immigration but we need to ask different questions than we do today in any case.

 

Quote

David Suzuki says Canada is ‘full’ and calls country’s immigration policy ‘crazy’

http://o.canada.com/news/david-suzuki-immigration-french-newspaper-interview

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

In the meantime what about not doing anything about the crisis? When, where and at whom do we assign blame for that?

This is a situation where I'd have little issue with implementing a military solution aimed at putting the Burmese Army out of business.

 

So sorry...no can do.   Canadian and Chinese mining companies (like Ivanhoe Mining Ltd) want to get their money's worth.

  • Haha 1

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9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

As has been pointed out on here by @Argus increasing immigration in the short term doesn't help that problem.  There is 'conventional economics' that says growth is good, population increase is good, and this orthodoxy is followed even if the governments that institute it are terrible at planning for increased capacity, even if they make cities like Toronto overcrowded and don't fund infrastructure etc.

Of course, these things can be fixed without reducing or pausing immigration but we need to ask different questions than we do today in any case.

 

http://o.canada.com/news/david-suzuki-immigration-french-newspaper-interview

Part of Suzuki's comment was about our immigration policy taking away future leaders of other countries. But he does have an anti-immigration stance it seems. His comments echo other leftists in some other countries, like New Zealand and Australia. For example, the newly elected Labour party in NZ ran on an anti-immigration platform.

Personally, I don't agree with Suzuki's comments. If someone is looking to increase their potential in another country, then who are we to tell them not to? Unless you are indigenous, all of us are a product of migration by people who were seeking a better life. That said, there is a real need for qualified skilled workers in Canada. One look at jobbank.gc.ca and you will see the number of vacant engineering and trades positions. Not to mention the huge demand for tech industry workers.

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32 minutes ago, marcus said:

....Personally, I don't agree with Suzuki's comments. If someone is looking to increase their potential in another country, then who are we to tell them not to? Unless you are indigenous, all of us are a product of migration by people who were seeking a better life.

 

So you think that slaves in Canada and other parts of the Americas were seeking a better life ?   Marvelous.....

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4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So you think that slaves in Canada and other parts of the Americas were seeking a better life ?   Marvelous.....

What?

So you think child molestors should not be punished and be accepted ? Marvelous.....

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6 hours ago, marcus said:

What?

So you think child molestors should not be punished and be accepted ? Marvelous.....

 

They already are in Canada..."treatment and rehabilitation back into society".   They fare far worse in Myanmar.

Slaves were not a "migration by people who were seeking a better life."

 

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On 12/19/2017 at 2:24 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Slaves were not a "migration by people who were seeking a better life."

Who is arguing that slaves were seeking a better life by becoming slaves? What are you babbling on about?

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2 hours ago, marcus said:

Who is arguing that slaves were seeking a better life by becoming slaves? What are you babbling on about?

 

You did above:

Quote

" Unless you are indigenous, all of us are a product of migration by people who were seeking a better life."

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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This issue deserves some real attention; as much as Israel's "depredations" receive.

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