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Goddess

Quebec's Bill 62

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17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

But how do you prevent women from being forced to wear them?

You don't do anything except allow for the passage of time which could take a generation or two as we've seen with other ethnic groups that slowly put the ways of the lands they migrated from behind them.

What we could do in the meantime is squelch the impatient desire and ability of politicians to exploit these issues for their own political gain i.e. by stoking fear, loathing and racism and then pandering to it.   This is the uncivilized behaviour we need to put behind us.  Why its taking us so long to do that should be the thing occupying our minds. 

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50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There might also be legitimate concerns about security.  The face covering is a practice of Wahhabi Muslim women.  Wahhabism is a particularly fundamentalist form of Islam.  It was the sect that the 9-11 hijackers belonged to.  It is the sect in Saudi Arabia where they enforced their Islamic laws by beheading people or cutting off limbs in the square.   Women take a much lower place in society than men.

Quote   With the help of funding from Saudi petroleum exports[23] (and other factors[24]), the movement underwent "explosive growth" beginning in the 1970s and now has worldwide influence.[3] The US State Department has estimated that over the past four decades the capital Riyadh has invested more than $10bn (£6bn) into charitable foundations in an attempt to replace mainstream Sunni Islam with the harsher, intolerant Wahhabism.[25]

This is my understanding, too - that Saudi Wahhabism is making definite strides in Canada and other countries where their funding is accepted by Muslim organizations and they are then obligated to abide by the wishes of the extremists funding them.  And they are having definite success in establishing their extreme brand of Islam in Canada.  Yet while they are busily funding and establishing extreme Islam in Canada and actively recruiting Muslims to their brand of extremism,  we have Canadians who feel  that we should do nothing about it,  nor allow our politicians to address it:

Quote

 

You don't do anything except allow for the passage of time which could take a generation or two as we've seen with other ethnic groups that slowly put the ways of the lands they migrated from behind them.

What we could do in the meantime is squelch the impatient desire and ability of politicians to exploit these issues for their own political gain i.e. by stoking fear, loathing and racism and then pandering to it.   This is the uncivilized behaviour we need to put behind us.  Why its taking us so long to do that should be the thing occupying our minds. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's possible. But given the popularity of it in Quebec, it will be another reason for Quebecers to want to leave the Fed.
I'll wager our limp dicked leadership will be afraid of this and back of. 

Trudeau- 
'Not up to the federal government' to challenge Quebec's religious neutrality law: Trudeau

Interesting highlights-
"It's not up to the federal government to challenge this, but we will certainly be looking at how this will unfold with full respect for the National Assembly," Trudeau said in French.

The Liberals, who hold a majority in Quebec's National Assembly, voted in favour of the bill, while all the other parties voted against. The two main opposition parties, the Parti Québécois and Coalition Avenir Québec, have argued the legislation doesn't go far enough, while civil rights advocates and Muslim groups argue it discriminates against religious minorities.

 

I can bet that if this were another province the feds would butt their noses in it, big time, and the left wing liberal Anglophone pansy media would make a big deal out of it by calling it racism. There are now two countries in Canada. One that can and is allowed to get away with whatever it pretty much wants to do, and the rest who cannot. Bilingualism and multiculturalism has destroyed a once great nation. Sad. 

 

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You don't do anything except allow for the passage of time which could take a generation or two as we've seen with other ethnic groups that slowly put the ways of the lands they migrated from behind them.

What we could do in the meantime is squelch the impatient desire and ability of politicians to exploit these issues for their own political gain i.e. by stoking fear, loathing and racism and then pandering to it.   This is the uncivilized behaviour we need to put behind us.  Why its taking us so long to do that should be the thing occupying our minds. 

So, why are there still Sikh temples and Sikh parades if they all eventually assimilate? But then again why should they assimilate when they keep immigrating to Canada by the tens of thousands every year, and can still practice what they left behind? Sikhs for instance have their own TV, radio, newspapers, temples, community centers, and even some private schools that teach Sikhism.

How is this assimilating? I see no assimilating here? Where do you see it? Over. 

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55 minutes ago, Goddess said:

....Saudi Wahhabism is making definite strides in Canada and other countries ...

 

...we have Canadians who feel  that we should do nothing about it,  nor allow our politicians to address it:

I suspect these would be Canadians who feel our export of advanced weapon systems to Saudi Arabia is a good idea. $142 million dollars worth last year.

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1 minute ago, taxme said:

So, why are there still Sikh temples and Sikh parades if they all eventually assimilate? But then again why should they assimilate when they keep immigrating to Canada by the tens of thousands every year, and can still practice what they left behind? Sikhs for instance have their own TV, radio, newspapers, temples, community centers, and even some private schools that teach Sikhism.

How is this assimilating? I see no assimilating here? Where do you see it? Over. 

Diversity is a Canadian value that they've assimilated. Over and out.

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16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Diversity is a Canadian value that they've assimilated. Over and out.

Diversity has become a forced Canadian value. I don't believe that the majority of the host Canadians ever asked for massive third world immigration to come to our shores bringing with it all these different cultures, religions, traditions and languages. They have been forced to assimilate our laws but they have and will not stop being who they are from whence they came. They will always be Sikhs first, and Canadian second. Over and out. 

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14 minutes ago, taxme said:

They have been forced to assimilate our laws but they have and will not stop being who they are from whence they came. They will always be Sikhs first, and Canadian second. 

So what's your excuse for being white first?

I'm an Earthling first myself. Its where I'm from.

Edited by eyeball

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36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Diversity is a Canadian value that they've assimilated. Over and out.

To the point of the thread, it's an English Canadian value I think.  There's at least one French Canadian on here who will give long-winded circular answers about English Canada, which are confusing enough to make me think I will never fully understand/integrate his culture/logic.

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6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So what's your excuse for being white first?

I'm an Earthling first myself. Its where I'm from.

Maybe because I was born white is my excuse for being white first?  What more can I say except lucky me. 

No kidding, eh? You were born on earth also?  Cool.  

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2 hours ago, taxme said:

Maybe because I was born white is my excuse for being white first?  What more can I say except lucky me. .  

You can say something that's more relevant to the question I asked but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  If being white is more important to you than being Canadian then why can't you assimilate the idea that other Canadians might feel the same way?

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On 10/18/2017 at 3:04 PM, PIK said:

To see someone totally covered in black on a very hot day, tells me they have to wear it or just have been so brainwashed that they don't know any better and I don't know how anyone can even think of saying it is OK. 

Maybe the folks who wear this type of clothing aren't the brainwashed ones.

==================

 

The results were clear. As the report puts it: "The amount of heat gained by a Bedouin exposed to the hot desert is the same whether he wears a black or a white robe. The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

Bedouins' robes, the scientists noted, are worn loose. Inside, the cooling happens by convection – either through a bellows action, as the robes flow in the wind, or by a chimney sort of effect, as air rises between robe and skin. Thus it was conclusively demonstrated that, at least for Bedouin robes, black is as cool as any other colour.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams

 

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On 10/20/2017 at 2:48 PM, eyeball said:

You can say something that's more relevant to the question I asked but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  If being white is more important to you than being Canadian then why can't you assimilate the idea that other Canadians might feel the same way?

Where have I said that being white is more important to me than being Canadian? I am proud to be both white and Canadian. How others feel is their own business. To each his/her own. I certainly do not live in that liberal bleeding heart white guilt world where one has to feel guilty for being white and ashamed of living in a world of white privilege. I thought that I was living in Canada, not Africa or Asia? 

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I am a non-regressive Liberal and here is how I see this issue. This is all about secularism and anti-extremist ideologies.

Anyone who has read about the Islamic ideology knows their extreme views: their objective is to convert everyone to their ideology and those that don't convert need to be killed or they have to pay tribute to them. Ostentatiously wearing Islamic religious symbols indicate strong support for that ideology. That is why it should be banned. It's for the same reason that if a large number of people were wearing Nazi uniforms, they would be banned. You cannot promote your hate ideology in a secular country like Canada. 

Among the regressive liberals in Canada (including pm Trudeau) there is obvious confusion about what the Islamic ideology stands for. They hate you and want to kill you or subjugate you. It's written in their book. When someone is telling you something, you better believe it.

I also accept that not all religious Muslims subscribe to the extreme aspects of the Islamic Ideology. Those people do not ostentatiously wear Islamic religious symbols and the law does not affect them in any way. 

I think this law is a good first step, I hope it will be followed at the federal level and expanded upon. I think the government should make clear that extremist ideologies are not accepted in Canada. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Bubble Burst said:

I am a non-regressive Liberal and here is how I see this issue. This is all about secularism and anti-extremist ideologies.

Anyone who has read about the Islamic ideology knows their extreme views: their objective is to convert everyone to their ideology and those that don't convert need to be killed or they have to pay tribute to them.

Provide your evidence.

Ostentatiously wearing Islamic religious symbols indicate strong support for that ideology. That is why it should be banned. It's for the same reason that if a large number of people were wearing Nazi uniforms, they would be banned. You cannot promote your hate ideology in a secular country like Canada. 

Yeah, that sums up Muslim women in a nutshell, so ostentatious! Where do you get this from? 

You equate Muslim women wearing their choice of dress to Nazis. PLEASE!

 

48 minutes ago, Bubble Burst said:

Among the regressive liberals in Canada (including pm Trudeau) there is obvious confusion about what the Islamic ideology stands for. They hate you and want to kill you or subjugate you. It's written in their book. When someone is telling you something, you better believe it.

How come millions of Muslims lie slaughtered by western war criminals in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, ... ? 

I also accept that not all religious Muslims subscribe to the extreme aspects of the Islamic Ideology. Those people do not ostentatiously wear Islamic religious symbols and the law does not affect them in any way. 

Why aren't you all hot and bothered by Fundamentalist Mormons, Fundamentalist christians, Mennonites, Hutterites, Doukhobors, ... ?

I think this law is a good first step, I hope it will be followed at the federal level and expanded upon. I think the government should make clear that extremist ideologies are not accepted in Canada. 

Funny, we all get way more JWs and Mormons showing up at our doors.  

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42 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Provide your evidence.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

43 minutes ago, hot enough said:

How come millions of Muslims lie slaughtered by western war criminals in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, ... ? 

You can't be serious? In all those cases, different sects of Islam are slaughtering each other and western countries are trying to stop that.

 

46 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Why aren't you all hot and bothered by Fundamentalist Mormons, Fundamentalist christians, Mennonites, Hutterites, Doukhobors, ?

None of these ideologies actively promotes the killing of those not subscribing to it. Some of them are actually quite peaceful. 

However, if an ideology actively promotes the killing of those not subscribing to it, it should be restricted. Showing ostentatious support to such an ideology should be banned, especially in western secular countries. There are lots of other countries where one could express those extremist views unimpeded, no need to spread it everywhere.

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5 minutes ago, Bubble Burst said:

 

5 minutes ago, Bubble Burst said:
Quote

You can't be serious? In all those cases, different sects of Islam are slaughtering each other and western countries are trying to stop that.

Total BS. The US/UK illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan all based on total lies.The US has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years - that is TERRORISM!

Quote

None of these ideologies actively promotes the killing of those not subscribing to it. Some of them are actually quite peaceful. 

However, if an ideology actively promotes the killing of those not subscribing to it, it should be restricted. Showing ostentatious support to such an ideology should be banned, especially in western secular countries. There are lots of other countries where one could express those extremist views unimpeded, no need to spread it everywhere.

To advance the totally ludicrous notion that Islam promotes the killing of people is so far out there it's almost approaching Pluto. 

Just do a count of the millions murdered by US/UK/Canadian war criminals versus westerners killed by Islam.

Consider the planned and executed genocide of the US/UK governments against the people of Iraq in the 1990s. Half a million children died, maybe the same number of adults, the UN stopped counting. The US figure the losses might approach 2 million but no big deal, on with the fun and games for them.

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Just now, hot enough said:

List of civilian killings by Islamic warriors in the last 30 days:

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Note that the list include an attack in Canada.

Could you provide the list of civilian killings by Christian warriors in the last 30 days so we can compare.

Though, I'll give you that the Old Testament is the most violent religious book ever written by man. 

8 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Total BS. The US/UK illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan all based on total lies.The US has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years - that is TERRORISM!

This is garbage. If you subscribe to that ideology and you are in Canada, or any Western Country, you will not be very happy, and I don't think we should accommodate your views. As I said, there are lots of countries in the world sharing your ideology, we don't want it everywhere.

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On 10/21/2017 at 5:52 PM, hot enough said:

Maybe the folks who wear this type of clothing aren't the brainwashed ones.

==================

 

The results were clear. As the report puts it: "The amount of heat gained by a Bedouin exposed to the hot desert is the same whether he wears a black or a white robe. The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

Bedouins' robes, the scientists noted, are worn loose. Inside, the cooling happens by convection – either through a bellows action, as the robes flow in the wind, or by a chimney sort of effect, as air rises between robe and skin. Thus it was conclusively demonstrated that, at least for Bedouin robes, black is as cool as any other colour.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams

 

Try wearing one sometime and let me know what it feels like when the temperature hits 90 F will ya. 

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7 hours ago, taxme said:

Try wearing one sometime and let me know what it feels like when the temperature hits 90 F will ya. 

You folks really aren't big on science. Some even pretend they attended university.

Edited by hot enough

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12 hours ago, Bubble Burst said:

List of civilian killings by Islamic warriors in the last 30 days:

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Note that the list include an attack in Canada.

Could you provide the list of civilian killings by Christian warriors in the last 30 days so we can compare.

We don't have to look at the last thirty days, we have to look at the last 3/4 of a century.

US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

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I have read a bit on this issue, and was surprised to found out about how Quebec is different than the rest of Canada.

I have read that in Quebec, after marrying, would have difficulty taking the last name of her new spouse.  That the Quebec government was against this practice, as it was seen as a Catholic tradition based on the women being inferior to her husband and is sacrificing some of her identy to take on her husbands.  That they are trying to eliminate that tradition.  I think the crucifix in their legislature is more of an anomoly to appease an older generation that will disappear within a generation.  

 

To me, Bill 62 seems to follow the principle that eliminated easy name changes.  They are banning, what many see is a tradition to repress woman's freedoms / equality.

 

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An interesting article on Bill 62.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/banning-the-niqab-is-bigoted-and-sexist-or-is-it/article36696047/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

Personally I agree with Bill 62.  The European Court of Human Rights has agreed the requirement to show one's face in public is not unreasonable.  According to this article, many media pundits, CBC, and liberals, leftists oppose bill 62.  These people are out of touch with most Canadians.  One report says about 70% of Canadians oppose face coverings.  A number of European countries have banned face coverings in various circumstances.  I think while it is a relatively small number of people effected by bill 62, it is the best time to ban face coverings in certain circumstances before the practice spreads far more widely.

It is a symbol of a kind of conservative political Islam (one group which enforces it is the fundamental Wahhabi Islam of Saudi Arabia) which is not held by most Muslims in the world.   To encourage the wearing of face coverings could be laying the groundwork for greater future problems.  The face covering really cuts off people from communicating with fellow Canadians and works against fitting into Canadian society.  It really isolates people.  There are restrictions to religious practices in other religions already, as for example, polygamy is illegal.  There is no such thing as unlimited freedom to do anything.

Edited by blackbird
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6 hours ago, DFCaper said:

To me, Bill 62 seems to follow the principle that eliminated easy name changes.  They are banning, what many see is a tradition to repress woman's freedoms / equality.

Found this article:

https://globalnews.ca/news/2404384/does-quebecs-ban-on-married-names-infringe-on-womens-rights/

So in Quebec, women do not have the right to take their husbands last name.  Is this discriminatory against traditional Catholics?

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