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Altai

What is your reason to live ?

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What makes you want to live ? Why did you live until today ? To eat more or to have sex more or dreaming to drive a better car or dreaming to have a house near ocean ? What ? Okay you got a house near ocean and you waked up to mornings with peaceful wave sounds and fish carrion smells. What happens then ? You have reached to your goal and it starts to be normal in quite short time and losts all its attractiveness, does everything ends for you in the life ?

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To enjoy life because it's fun most of the time.  If you're not having fun or generally happy most of them time you're probably depressed and need to make some changes in circumstances, outlook etc or seek medical help.

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Why are we here - it's a very difficult question in a search for the meaning of life.  My interpretation is that you are part of a "entropy" system once you are here.  You contribute to everything around you.  People who choose to end their life create a "BIG" void.  My answer: It is not death but life that sustains us and supports having fun.  So whatever motivates you, you actually need to be alive.  Be good to yourselves.

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That's a good point Altai!

There may be an afterlife. Or there may not. So better to enjoy the time you have now.

As for your question of what happens after reaching your goals, that's another good question. Alexander the Great killed himself at age 30 because he felt he had accomplished everything it was possible to do so in his life, and committed suicide. I guess his feelings on the subject were that, after doing and having everything, it would only be downhill from there, so better to end his life. I can't agree with his "solution" but it would seem a valid argument.

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On 11/17/2017 at 3:15 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

Alexander the Great killed himself at age 30 because he felt he had accomplished everything it was possible to do so in his life, and committed suicide. 

Not sure where you heard that but it's certainly not the accepted historical version of events. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great#Death_and_succession

Besides, Alexander didn't feel he had accomplished everything, he had many plans for future years. 

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True story: Yesterday, I overheard a desperate lady on the phone, apparently someone thinks there is no need to live and suicide is the next solution. 

IT IS NOT

People who are armed with coping solutions, and mechanisms to solve problems and issues do not generally have thoughts and plans for suicide.

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On 07/11/2017 at 12:29 PM, Altai said:

What makes you want to live ? Why did you live until today ? To eat more or to have sex more or dreaming to drive a better car or dreaming to have a house near ocean ? What ? Okay you got a house near ocean and you waked up to mornings with peaceful wave sounds and fish carrion smells. What happens then ? You have reached to your goal and it starts to be normal in quite short time and losts all its attractiveness, does everything ends for you in the life ?

"I" am only the conscious state of my active brain that acts as an interface to the environment that serves the collective cells of my body to compete to remain constant

This may be a bit too unappealing and over-rational to state for most here. But this is the simplest way that I think of it. I'm not religious and take Richard Dawkin's "Selfish Gene" concept to heart. We only exist because of a contradiction of physical nature: that remaining 'constant' is impossible. The perfect 'constant' in nature is an absolute state of nothingness. This very contradiction is what I believe acts as THE mechanism of all causation. With respect to humans (or any animal), conscious states require a type of hardwired program that assigns values arbitrarily to existence that SHOULD they be selected such that they allow you to survive, they incidentally persist by the nature of its opposite to lack such fortune in a hostile natural environment. As such, we have a form of initial program that assigns early life experiences (some or possibly most,  in utero) that takes whatever is in our first experiences as "favorable" (like our mother's voices, for instance). Whatever that assignment is becomes what we seek as comfortable and to what our conscious state is assigned to seek in the environment.

In essence, this reduces, for our interest, as pleasure seeking and pain avoidance. The complexity of life we experience is thus a kind of an illusion. 

I'm sorry if this is too nihilistic for some of you. But while it may seem depressing upon initial consideration, it doesn't detract its truth. However, I can assure you that it does not mean that such discomfort for knowing or first realizing this will doom you to emotional demise. I'm still alive and still enjoy the experience. I think the ultimate curse that the Adam and Eve story often portrays as "death" is misunderstood: the curse is NOT death.... it is itself more of a salvation! Imagine if you had to live as a god knowing everything, including the possibility that you could never die. You'd likely prefer to die rather than to feign laughing at the same jokes we tell in our lives over and over and over and over .....   

...you get it? 

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12 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

"I" am only the conscious state of my active brain that acts as an interface to the environment that serves the collective cells of my body to compete to remain constant

This may be a bit too unappealing and over-rational to state for most here. But this is the simplest way that I think of it. I'm not religious and take Richard Dawkin's "Selfish Gene" concept to heart. We only exist because of a contradiction of physical nature: that reey allow you to survive, they incidentally persist by the nature of its opposite t.............


So what is your reason to live ? Having a salary and eating some food ?


Cheers !

g9Mj1R.jpg 

lb5BlX.jpg

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There are plenty of reasons to live even when it is not clear.

1) work towards and realize a goal in life (e.g. to become a doctor/lawyer), to eat, to have sex, to take a picture, to understand a picture, to drink, to confuse others and yourself, to look handsome

2) sleep all day, wake up, feel good and go back to sleep

3) howl at the moon

4) gaze at the heavens and wonder; sleep under the starts

5) wait for prince charming

6) keep looking for a pot of goal at the end of the rainbow

7) run into a warm building on a very cold day

8) watch a bird carry a leaf in the mouth

9) head for the rooftop of your house and sing at the top of your lungs

10) tell a white lie and get caught

11) smile to see the spread of infectiously happy emotions

12) share and receive love

13) tie a shoe lace for a stranger

14) perform ordinary magic (e.g. give a hug to a love one next to you)

15) write 2 good things you have done starting today (e.g. I made a beautiful English breakfast, and I draw the curtains open to let the light in)

16) watch girly movies

17) Watch CNN for updates on Trump and pretend your shock and surprise

18) wondered why grass still find a way to grow and be displayed in the patio even when you have the detailed screening, mesh and took all preventative measures

19) understand the little and menial imperfections that takes a lifetime to fix

20) dance in the rain

22) practice your deep breathing everyday

23) look into the mirror on the wall and say aloud "I am the fairness of all"

24) now have a good laugh until you cry

25) meet lots of new people, have lots of friends

26) stay in touch with relatives

27) find that secret place where music dwell in dementia patients, so that you can store your infinite reasons for living

28) don't ever forget you are alive, well and you have many paths, and choices in life

 

 

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Altai,

Here's a more dramatic/better demonstration of your point:

=====

Then again, there's always my ex-wife's version of Shakespeare:

"A few seconds of sheer terror, and then sleep - forever." 

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Why live?

Imagine a single corn/seed on a cob. Imagine an acorn, or child.

Some children grow as ignorant acorns; others grow with the wisdom of parents.

You never know what you can add to the future.

====

Altai (or anyone else) I strongly urge to you learn French (Quebec French) and understand the words of this song:

 

http://lyriz.progysm.com/chanson.php?idlien=2419

 

 

 

Edited by August1991

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I don't know what to even interpret of Altai's interpretation of my own point and couldn't figure out how to even respond. The case of the criminal killing himself on the news and repeated above here is more about the fact that the court had not discerned that this man had even the power to commit this act by security. It is actually understandable 'why' this guy may have done this should his or anyone's circumstances be similar for some such life conviction. The case was more about retribution and vengeance of a public to which this guy ESCAPED 'our' preference to see him suffer for his actions. [I haven't a clue the circumstance of August's video link? Just to add shock?]

My point was NOT to assert a futile hopelessness of the "nihilistic" stereotype of meaninglessness in life. Rather, I support a "logical-nihilist" about nature or totality as LACKING concern. WE, though, make or create meaning and it is NOT a diminishing factor to our existence with exception to the suffering that we feel due to that 'programmed' assigning function that I speak of. What we need to do is to first recognize this and then learn to find a means to 'reprogram' our interpretation of those things we suffer through discomforts, depression, and pain. For me, for instance, while I certainly don't welcome the condition of severe pain, should I come across it, remembering that the 'logic' of our system to merely 'assign' those sensations means that nature itself holds us hostage to nature to feel whatever we experience in periods of development in our environments to pleasures and pains arbitrarily. That is, I try to 'rationalize' the sensation as a neutral-type alarm system.

An example of this is to the class of diseases, such as 'leprosy', which accidentally assigns NO discomfort sensations to certain things that SHOULD feel painful in order to alert us to avoid harms that make the ones with the disease get infected unintentionally. This KNOWLEDGE should actually HELP us recognize HOW we can learn to overcome certain discomforts and prevent ourselves from being too absorbed in accelerating comforts that lead to abuses.

It really IS true that many people are born into this world and in specific environments which penalize them without their power to do anything about it. To make life 'meaningful' then, we can try to first ACCEPT these truths and then try to figure out how to ALTER those things which most lead to the discomforts in ourselves and others AS well as to curb our unsatiated tendency to abuse the pleasures without limits. 

Scott.

P.S. I like your positive response, BP. ;)  (Even if I lack that 'positive' attribute myself)

 

Edited by Scott Mayers
Incompleted idea when I drifted in the sentence.

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https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/is-life-actually-worth-living 

Here is something that came up relating to this topic. It's Sam Harris's recent podcast interviewing David Benatar's philosophical view on "anti-natalism", a belief that one should avoid contributing to population growth by opting out of having children with a kind of nihilistic type belief. I'm not sure if I agree with his views or not but it might help to check out what someone as such might be thinking with a logical insight on the topic. I'm just beginning to listen now and so cannot speak much else on this.

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On 03.12.2017 at 3:50 PM, RB said:

There are plenty of reasons to live even when it is not clear.

1) work towards and realize a goal in life (e.g. to become a doctor/lawyer), to eat, to have sex, to take a picture, to understand a picture, to drink, to confuse others and yourself, to look handsome

2) sleep all day, wake up, feel good and go back to sleep

3) howl at the moon

4) gaze at the heavens and wonder; sleep under the starts

5) wait for prince charming

6) keep looking for a pot of goal at the end of the rainbow

7) run into a warm building on a very cold day

................................

 

 


You didnt have to write this much, you could simply say "I live to satisfy my personal ego". So does "satisfiying personal ego" the main reason of living ? 

 

Edited by Altai

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22 hours ago, August1991 said:

Altai,

Here's a more dramatic/better demonstration of your point:

 


LoL wtf :lol: I drink my tangerine juice and eating cheesy pastry and watching someone gushing blood from his face. So this guy should have reply my topic before putting a barrel in his big mouth.
 

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15 hours ago, Altai said:


You didnt have to write this much, you could simply say "I live to satisfy my personal ego". So does "satisfiying personal ego" the main reason of living ? 

 

There are different ways to look at things (e.g. we see a big house, so we can call it a big house, we can also say it is a not so small house).  Life is not only based on linear experience with expected happenings.

For this reason I can say yes I live to satisfy my personal ego.  However I can also say I do not wish to die before I satisfy my personal ego among other things which explains infinite reasons of wishing to live.

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Thanks for sharing the song August.  It is profound.  It immediately reminded me of Sia's Bird set free

I agree love and being love give meaning to life.  I would be wonderful if every person can experience and find love.

Sia's song reconciled living by not being bugged down with struggles in life.  Like move along. 

People can choose to give love, even when you didn't receive love.  What I mean is that people can still aspire, hope and see love in others, while they are optimistic about their own future.

From Sia:

I don't care if I sing off key.

I find myself in my melodies, I sign for love, I sing me.  I shout it out like the bird set free.

Each man search for meaning in life, and each defining meaning is what makes up life. (RB)

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On 02/12/2017 at 8:34 PM, Altai said:


lb5BlX.jpg

I'm creating a new topic in response to this post: "In honour of Praljak". See you there...

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On 11/24/2017 at 3:15 PM, Bonam said:

Not sure where you heard that but it's certainly not the accepted historical version of events. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great#Death_and_succession

Besides, Alexander didn't feel he had accomplished everything, he had many plans for future years. 

Oops....OK I am obviously confusing Alexander with someone else...my profound apologies.

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On ‎07‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:29 PM, Altai said:

What makes you want to live ? Why did you live until today ? To eat more or to have sex more or dreaming to drive a better car or dreaming to have a house near ocean ? What ? Okay you got a house near ocean and you waked up to mornings with peaceful wave sounds and fish carrion smells. What happens then ? You have reached to your goal and it starts to be normal in quite short time and losts all its attractiveness, does everything ends for you in the life ?

It's a terrible effort to do otherwise, and my family give every indication of wanting me around.   It is interesting, too, to see how far the capitalist crooks can rob the mugs before they finally kick.

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People grow up and form and interpret their own reasons for living.  It is serious stuff if they think otherwise.

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On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:04 AM, RB said:

People grow up and form and interpret their own reasons for living.  It is serious stuff if they think otherwise.

I used to work for the Samaritans, and I don't reckon 'thinking' seems to come into it much.    People get bothered and don't seem to get very deeply into what reality may be.

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Some people say that without a family your life is worthless; it is the primary purpose of one's life to pass on one's genes to the next generation.

If those people are right then my existence is totally unnecessary since I have never wanted any such things.

There has been news recently here in Finland how the birth-rate has plummeted. Some people have come up with suggestions how childless people should pay more tax etc.

I don't really follow the logic of those people as they are obviously the ones with children. Namely, as they have children but people like me don't it means that their children don't have more competition for the ever-increasing competition for fewer and fewer jobs which will be available in the future.

Instead of viewing us with no offspring with hostility those family-guys should actually thank us.

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:29 PM, Altai said:

What makes you want to live ? Why did you live until today ? To eat more or to have sex more or dreaming to drive a better car or dreaming to have a house near ocean ? What ? Okay you got a house near ocean and you waked up to mornings with peaceful wave sounds and fish carrion smells. What happens then ? You have reached to your goal and it starts to be normal in quite short time and losts all its attractiveness, does everything ends for you in the life ?

Good questions.

Sometimes, yes, I want to live for my own happiness and pleasure.

But you are right, this is not enough.

I want to live so that I can contribute, to the best of my abilities, to making the world a better place.

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