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Jerusalem is Israel's Capital...

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BBC: Jersusalem is Israel's capital

I commented on some thread last night of someone from the U.S. asking if Trump was all that bad for them. I tried to relate without prejudice. I assumed that much of the world's problems in communication/miscommunication deal with today's technology. However, today this announcement appears as though he may be setting up for some suicidal 'fuck you' before he possibly gets impeached. ?? 

I'm a bit surprised no one else here even mentioned it yet. What do you guys think?

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Already discussed in the U.S. Politics "Trump" thread, complete with a map of Israel depicting Jerusalem as its capital.

Trump is just executing U.S. policy that has existed for decades, supported by federal law (1995).

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Thank you. I haven't been here for a while and don't like to step into a thread that's a mile long that requires me to read too much to catch up. 

I just saw this on the news and am still pondering the implications. I don't personally accept "Palestine" area as Jewish nor essentially Muslim. Any country/territory that takes a National Socialist/ Fascist type view of a constitution, especially based on some belief in special peoples based on some ethnic-linked historical worldview, is regressive and dangerous. What the world should be trying to do is to reduce people's interpretation of 'ownership' of some arbitrary culture by some ancestral genetic link. That whole area is a historical link to everyone at some point in time. 

Trump is likely testing his power to engage in some justification of war acts. If his threats at home keep up, he'll need a big distraction. Since he can't seem to egg on North Korea fast enough to send off a threatening nuke, maybe riling up the middle east might do it?

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1 minute ago, Scott Mayers said:

 What the world should be trying to do is to reduce people's interpretation of 'ownership' of some arbitrary culture by some ancestral genetic link. That whole area is a historical link to everyone at some point in time.

 

For all practical purposes, the world already does this with economic and military force.   No nation has the right to land, only the right to defend possession.

 

Quote

Trump is likely testing his power to engage in some justification of war acts. If his threats at home keep up, he'll need a big distraction. Since he can't seem to egg on North Korea fast enough to send off a threatening nuke, maybe riling up the middle east might do it?

 

Trump is just continuing longstanding U.S. policy.   DPRK (and Iranian) nuclear brinksmanship precedes Trump by many administrations.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Already discussed in the U.S. Politics "Trump" thread, complete with a map of Israel depicting Jerusalem as its capital.

Trump is just executing U.S. policy that has existed for decades, supported by federal law (1995).

And? Who cares, we can discuss that here too!  As you continue to do!  Awesome.

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1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

BBC: Jersusalem is Israel's capital

I commented on some thread last night of someone from the U.S. asking if Trump was all that bad for them. I tried to relate without prejudice. I assumed that much of the world's problems in communication/miscommunication deal with today's technology. However, today this announcement appears as though he may be setting up for some suicidal 'fuck you' before he possibly gets impeached. ?? 

I'm a bit surprised no one else here even mentioned it yet. What do you guys think?

As mentioned the other thread has discussed this issue a fair bit. And impeachment is certainly part of the discourse. I personally think this latest show from Trump is more to do with his mental instability than a "fuck you", but come to think of it, I suppose they could be related.

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3 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

I'm a bit surprised no one else here even mentioned it yet. What do you guys think?

That the Middle East needs more cow-bell not gasoline.

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5 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

I'm a bit surprised no one else here even mentioned it yet. What do you guys think?

He is nowhere near being impeached at the moment, and doesn't need to do anything desperate. I think your reaction is over the top. 

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The ironic thing here is that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

That is reality, but President Trump is the one accused of being mentally unstable ?

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Three of the biggest donors in U.S. politics are billionaires Ronald Lauder, Sheldon Adelson (historically republican donors) and Haim Saban (historically, a democratic donor). 

Their number one agenda is Israel. Or as they are called, Israeli Firsters. 

Trump knows that donations drive politics in the U.S. and if he wants to survive what`s ahead of him internally and if he wants the support of the republicans, he will need to get the big donors on board. 

He also knows that the attention and the fireworks this move will start will take away attention from the cluster f*ck his administration has been at home.

 

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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The ironic thing here is that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

That is reality, but President Trump is the one accused of being mentally unstable ?

East or West Jerusalem?

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6 minutes ago, marcus said:

East or West Jerusalem?

 

Russia recognized West Jerusalem as Israel's capital last year:

 

Quote

...We reaffirm our commitment to the UN-approved principles for a Palestinian-Israeli settlement, which include the status of East Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state. At the same time, we must state that in this context we view West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2717182

 

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Let me guess the second step, now ISIS will attack Jarusalem to destroy Islamic structures and Israel will fight to kick them out of Jarusalem. LoL this is the story ^_^

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6 hours ago, Altai said:

Let me guess the second step, now ISIS will attack Jarusalem to destroy Islamic structures and Israel will fight to kick them out of Jarusalem. LoL this is the story ^_^

Don't think ISIS can attack anything at this point. 

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14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Already discussed in the U.S. Politics "Trump" thread, complete with a map of Israel depicting Jerusalem as its capital.

Trump is just executing U.S. policy that has existed for decades, supported by federal law (1995).

I will only waste my energy with you. The reality is Israel is and has always been Israel's capital. The reality is no nation in the world can dictate to Israel where to put its capital but they do. Can you imagine telling Saudi Arabia they can't put their capital in Riyadh or Iran they can't put their capital in Tehran or telling Canada they can't put their capital in Ottawa.

The issue isn't where Israel puts its capital its that the world has capitulated to the Arab League of Nations, Muslim oil rich nations and extremist nations like Iran, fearing a backlash for recognizing Jerusalem as the state capital of Israel. Look at the rhetoric Scott Mayers uses. This kind of shrill oh my God the world will blow up reaction is what of course I expect from people who live in sheltered environments and fear extremist reactions. The world will end oh my God.

Give me a fucking break. The reality is the PA and Hamas do NOT and will never recognize a Jewish state of Israel and want all of Israel back as a Muslim state but these leftist twits engage in this fantasy that; a-the only issue is settlements on the West Bank; ii-Jerusalem can't be the capital of Israel.

The fact is many of the people who feel Jerusalem should not be the capital of Israel don't believe the state should exist but they won't have the balls to say that on this or any other forum. They will isolate the issue as they do the settlement issue, pretending they are stand alone issues.

They are not. Even if a two state solution comes about, Jerusalem will be the capital for Israel no different than it would be for this alleged second Palestine nation if they recognized a Jewish state.

One does not preclude the other.

The point Trump made is that nations have held off recognizing Jerusalem as  capital of Israel saying it needs to be part of a larger settlement plan of two nations living side by side. That's nice but since the 1920's and to this day, not ONE, not one Arab or Palestinian politician will recognize a Jewish state of Israel ANYWHERE and the current PA and Hamas have made it clear they will never stop until Israel is turned back into a Muslim state merged into a larger state with Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank.

That is the position of the PA and Hamas and its always been.

So isolating the Jerusalem issue to placate Arab League nations and the PA or Hamas for fear they will have tantrums on the streets and engage in violence means what?

Trump did what Trump does and said FUCK YOU. He said FUCK YOU to threats of tantrums. He said you have 4 years before we physically move either get off the toilet and engage in serious peace talks where you stop denying the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, and make a deal based on that reality, anything else is up for talks.

That is all he said.

Problem is because its Trump no one is listening. Because its Israel no one listens. People simply assume and go off on tangents trying to isolate the Jerusalem issue as a stand alone issue. Its not and has never been. All Trump did was state the obvious.

Every day diplomats travel to the capital in Jerusalem. They engage in fiction and pretend they ain't doing so because their offices are in  Tel Aviv.  The Knesset and government buildings are all in Jerusalem.

Next, Israel pays rent every month to Christian churches who own the land on which the Knesset and all its government buildings are situated on. The PA and Hamas and Arab League of Nations unlike Israel do not recognize the Christian land rights, Israel does.

So this is in fact not just a legal issue between the Palestinians and Israel its with Christian land owners in East Jerusalem which the Palestinians claim exclusively. The PA and Hamas recognize no Jewish or Christian land titles or rights of access ibn East Jerusalem.

Let's be clear in a comprehensive peace agreement if there was a capital for the second Palestinian state and Israel both in Jerusalem it would have to be carefully planned. It would also have to incorporate and recognize Christian land rights.

Israel has made it clear it will continue to recognize Christian land rights. It did not build any Israeli government building on land owned by Palestinians.

Let's also be clear. Up until 1967 Muslims controlled East Jerusalem and pissed and defecated on and destroyed sacred Jewish sites in Jerusalem. When Israel went in to East Jerusalem in 1967 it said never again will our sites be treated in such a manner.

The three religions have equal religious connections to the city and its a unique situation that would eventually have to be considered a special site for all three in some kind of international agreement but we are  not there. We are not there because Palestinians will not recognize a Jewish state in Israel under any circumstance, and will not recognize Christian and Jewish access or land title rights in East Jerusalem.

Sitting in a stalemate in fantasy land with the status quo has not worked. Maybe this will  start something. It could yes trigger street riots and tantrums. So? Is that something new? 

The current status quo is open street warfare in East Jerusalem where at a moment's notice a civilian in the name of Palestine liberation of Israel could attack and kill someone indiscriminately.

That's the status quo. That is something that needs to change.

I finish by saying I believe the Jerusalem capital issue does not and will not negate the ability to create a second Palestinian nation anymore than settlements on the West bank will. Both issues are certainly seen by Palestinians as affronts to their dignity but they are not stand alone issues. They are all interconnected just as  Canada and the world say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Altai said:

Do you guys know that Jarusalem means "The city of islam"

Now you know ^_^

  • So what was it called before Islam existed? 
Edited by Boges

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9 minutes ago, Boges said:
  • So what was it called before Islam existed? 

Huddersfield.  Not many people know that!

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I don't think Trump himself has the faintest idea of what is going on in the Middle-East or that he even cares about it. It was his son-in-law who wanted this.

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2 hours ago, Boges said:
  • So what was it called before Islam existed? 

Istanbul, which may have been Constantinople.  :D

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2 hours ago, -TSS- said:

I don't think Trump himself has the faintest idea of what is going on in the Middle-East or that he even cares about it. It was his son-in-law who wanted this.

He has no idea what goes on anywhere but his own head and that's sketchy at best.

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Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The parts of Jerusalem west of the 1967 borders are indisputably part of Israel. There should be no problem for any country to locate its embassy in west Jerusalem. No country needs to "recognize" that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel... it's a simple fact: it is. We don't need other countries to agree that Ottawa is the capital of Canada or Washington DC is the capital of the USA, they just are. Countries get to pick their own capital cities. 

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14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

He is nowhere near being impeached at the moment, and doesn't need to do anything desperate. I think your reaction is over the top. 

Not really. The act is NOT one any rational President of the past has recognized even if they initially thought it was a good idea. The support for Israel by 'us' (Canada too as well, that is) is contrary to the supposed principles against behaviors of other countries we take human right issues with to even more trivial concerns (like our P.M.s concern against China). 

The act to grant Israel, a religiously-excused constitution ONLY-FOR historical Jewish-related peoples, is 'fascist' [belief in a specific coalition based on on unique ethnic identity]. This has bias against the rights of people STILL who are equally 'aboriginal' to that land. Furthermore, unlike injustices of past ancestral worlds of similar injustices of those centuries dead, the very people of those who still LIVE who are continuing to be intolerantly taken lands and rights from there. While the Israeli people treat those who specifically 'favor' their supremacy (over the Muslim-related natives), this bias for selective 'democracy' of only Israeli favored groups based on ethnic identity DEFINES WHAT "National Socialism" means. [A 'socialist' system that favors a specific Nationality.]

I think we need to take a stand against BOTHof the Israeli and Muslim/Palestinian claims by requiring that whole city to be of NO special religious/ethnic/cultural ownership. This move by Trump (a single person) upon a situation of the whole world's security is like one who knows they are doomed and desire to as much irreversible damage as quick as possible before the ship sinks.

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LoL these idiots who says Jarusalem belongs to Jews are living on other people's lands. Leave America and give it to native people back if you are honest about what you say -_-

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