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Robert Greene

How Do We Deal With Overpopulation, While Respecting Human Rights?

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6 hours ago, Robert Greene said:

Imagine trying to get through 50 of these intersections.

Impossible in the west, but only because we're more egotistical.  The system works in Hanoi because they're pretty much the opposite of many westerners on the road - more humble and considerate as evidenced by the utter lack of any road rage in the video.   The people honking their horns do so as much out of consideration for others as for their own safety - like a ship sounding its horn in the fog, it's just an appropriate thing to do.

If this was a video filmed in any number of places in North America I would expect many instances of yelling, fisticuffs, and shootings. 

Edited by eyeball

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On 4/15/2019 at 10:50 PM, eyeball said:

Impossible in the west, but only because we're more egotistical.  The system works in Hanoi because they're pretty much the opposite of many westerners on the road - more humble and considerate as evidenced by the utter lack of any road rage in the video.   The people honking their horns do so as much out of consideration for others as for their own safety - like a ship sounding its horn in the fog, it's just an appropriate thing to do.

If this was a video filmed in any number of places in North America I would expect many instances of yelling, fisticuffs, and shootings. 

It's a great example of how overpopulation in Asia, is lowering the quality of life for their citizens. If they don't do anything to curb population growth, cities are going to become unlivable. We might think skyscrapers are sexy, but when we look below the surface, we see all kinds of hidden costs linked to overpopulation. In no time in the history of the world have cities been this big. As the world embraces capitalism and technological development, we should limit urbanization as the counterbalance. It's possible to increase the GDP per capita, if the demand for resources declines.

Edited by Robert Greene

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41 minutes ago, Robert Greene said:

It's a great example of how overpopulation in Asia, is lowering the quality of life for their citizens. If they don't do anything to curb population growth, cities are going to become unlivable. We might think skyscrapers are sexy, but when we look below the surface, we see all kinds of hidden costs linked to overpopulation. In no time in the history of the world have cities been this big. As the world embraces capitalism and technological development, we should limit urbanization as the counterbalance. It's possible to increase the GDP per capita, if the demand for resources declines.

Well that's true of anywhere there's human congestion I suppose but your video is a better example of how more emotionally stable Asians are and how much better they will be at coping with it.

Again I say, if this was a North American intersection there would be blood being shed all over it.

 

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7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well that's true of anywhere there's human congestion I suppose but your video is a better example of how more emotionally stable Asians are and how much better they will be at coping with it.

Again I say, if this was a North American intersection there would be blood being shed all over it.

 

So what happens to the quality of life in Canada, when our cities reach their population? Shouldn't we do more to divert the population growth in our biggest cities?

How are we going to handle 10 million people, when we can't figure out how to replace the Gardiner?

 

Edited by Robert Greene

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5 minutes ago, Robert Greene said:

So what happens to the quality of life in Canada, when our cities reach their population? Shouldn't we do more to divert the population growth in our biggest cities?

How are we going to handle 10 million people, when we can't figure out how to replace the Gardiner?

The same as people in Hanoi except we need to figure out how to do so without the fisticuffs and bloodshed.  How hard can it be?

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On 4/17/2019 at 4:13 PM, eyeball said:

we need to figure out how to do so without the fisticuffs and bloodshed.  How hard can it be?

Very hard to impossible. 

That's because of our capitalist system, where people are a commodity and an increase in population is needed to sustain GDP growth.

Human population will continue to increase till the sources of food start to diminish and Earth can no longer support growth. 

Then people will start starving and fighting and I imagine they will have to become cannibals because bio-diversity will be non-existent.  It is possible that living conditions on earth will become so adverse by that time that all human will die off.

Interestingly, with all our smarts we will follow the life cycles of viruses or molds.

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5 hours ago, cougar said:

1. That's because of our capitalist system, where people are a commodity and an increase in population is needed to sustain GDP growth.

2. Human population will continue to increase till the sources of food start to diminish and Earth can no longer support growth. 

3. Then people will start starving and fighting and I imagine they will have to become cannibals because bio-diversity will be non-existent.  It is possible that living conditions on earth will become so adverse by that time that all human will die off.

4. Interestingly, with all our smarts we will follow the life cycles of viruses or molds.

1. You think people were less of a commodity under Communism ?  Read about how the Soviets treated their soldiers in WW2 vs the Americans.  

2. Population growth is slowing and declining.  It will eventually reach zero, then decline into negatives which means depopulation.  Fewer people are hungry today even as the population continues to grow.

3. Science fiction.

4. "our" smarts... and yet you are parroting sci-fi scenarios... I'm being mean but my point is that we're doing better than you say we are.

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. "our" smarts... and yet you are parroting sci-fi scenarios... I'm being mean but my point is that we're doing better than you say we are.

We're capable of much better too, as evidenced by the good folks of Hanoi.

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On 5/4/2019 at 5:34 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. You think people were less of a commodity under Communism ?  Read about how the Soviets treated their soldiers in WW2 vs the Americans.

Have you heard of Russians capturing slaves in Africa or attempting to increase their population through immigration?  I haven't.   In socialist times, there was no deliberate plan to grow population for the sake of profit, because there were no capitalist structures to profit from that.

Michael, I hope you are right and I am wrong.  But of course I wrote the above because I believe in it.

Humans main problem starts with "private property".  The Queen wrongfully created the notion that all land belongs to humans and is "crown property".  This allows for the crown property to be sold and made private property.  Private property gets developed and the ecosystem with the thousands of animal and plant species which were also rightful owners of the land, is wiped out.

Because animals cannot have land they will be wiped out.  Currently their last remaining sanctuaries get developed for timber harvesting , mineral and oil and gas exploitation.

I am not  too sure why you think the population increase is slowing down.  We get our 300,000 immigrants in Canada every year.  This is one huge city being built in the wilderness every year with the corresponding green house emissions.  Chinese have scrapped their 1 child per family policy and are now over 1.5 billion.  I doubt that India or the African countries are doing any differently.

We are indeed headed towards cannibalism and our own extinction.

Edited by cougar

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On 5/5/2019 at 1:10 PM, cougar said:

I am not  too sure why you think the population increase is slowing down. 

Probably this.

Quote

It took humankind 13 years to add its 7 billionth. That’s longer than the 12 years it took to add the 6 billionth—the first time in human history that interval had grown. (The 2 billionth, 3 billionth, 4 billionth, and 5 billionth took 123, 33, 14, and 13 years, respectively.) In other words, the rate of global population growth has slowed. And it’s expected to keep slowing. Indeed, according to experts’ best estimates, the total population of Earth will stop growing within the lifespan of people alive today.

About That Overpopulation Problem

 

 

Quote

We get our 300,000 immigrants in Canada every year.  This is one huge city being built in the wilderness every year with the corresponding green house emissions.  Chinese have scrapped their 1 child per family policy and are now over 1.5 billion.  I doubt that India or the African countries are doing any differently.

We are indeed headed towards cannibalism and our own extinction.

 

 

Why are you conflating Canada's population growth with global population growth?  We'll certainly see more people coming to Canada and especially as climate changes start to really bite, but overall it does look like our global population will soon peak if it already hasn't.  We're not building new cities we're simply crowding into existing ones and expanding them, by building up mostly as opposed to out.

The issue we should be thinking about is that poor people make poor stewards of the environment simply because they can't afford to be gentle about their use of resources.  So the real challenge is to ensure wealth is distributed more widely and evenly.  We're certainly not out of the woods but extinction?  Not a chance, we're the penultimate weedy species, we can survive virtually anywhere we make a go of it and barring a nuclear war we're probably as hard to eradicate as...Scotch broom, which we should really blame the Romans for btw. 

Edited by eyeball

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On 5/6/2019 at 4:47 PM, eyeball said:

Probably this.

" It took humankind 13 years to add its 7 billionth. That’s longer than the 12 years it took to add the 6 billionth—the first time in human history that interval had grown. (The 2 billionth, 3 billionth, 4 billionth, and 5 billionth took 123, 33, 14, and 13 years, respectively.) "

 

You are joking with me , right?      It took 123 years to add the second billionth and only 13 years to add the 6th bilionth and you tell me we are doing OK because it took the whole of 14 years to add the 7th billionth???????  And how did this miracle happen?  Any policy; any plan?    Give your head a good shake!

 

Quote:  " Why are you conflating Canada's population growth with global population growth?  "

I live in Canada and can see the damages done to the environment by increasing the population in this country.   I cannot control our population increase, despite my ability to vote, but I have even less control over other countries populations.    Population is being increased because the capitalist elite profits from that.   I hope their air conditioners do not die on them.

Edited by cougar

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On 4/17/2019 at 4:04 PM, Robert Greene said:

So what happens to the quality of life in Canada, when our cities reach their population?

It'll look like Hanoi I suppose so we should probably learn to get along better.  I wonder more about quality of life in terms of a growing number of seniors relative to the number of younger workers and care givers that will be available to meet their needs.  

Quote

Shouldn't we do more to divert the population growth in our biggest cities?

Where?  They don't make land anymore but they do build high-rises.   

Quote

How are we going to handle 10 million people, when we can't figure out how to replace the Gardiner?

Roll up our sleeves and sharpen our pencils.   

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49 minutes ago, cougar said:

You are joking with me , right?      It took 123 years to add the second billionth and only 13 years to add the 6th bilionth and you tell me we are doing OK because it took the whole of 14 years to add the 7th billionth???????  And how did this miracle happen? 

The link I provided explained it.

Click on the blue words and you'll see.

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On 5/10/2019 at 8:33 PM, eyeball said:

The link I provided explained it.

Click on the blue words and you'll see.

No need.   

It took mankind over 3,000 years (well if we count from the very beginning it will be more) to get to the 1st billionth.   Now it takes only 13 years to add another billionth.    Even if it took 20, 50 or 100 years to add a billionth people, we are still in the same disastrous situation.

 

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6 hours ago, cougar said:

No need.   

It took mankind over 3,000 years (well if we count from the very beginning it will be more) to get to the 1st billionth.   Now it takes only 13 years to add another billionth.    Even if it took 20, 50 or 100 years to add a billionth people, we are still in the same disastrous situation.

The rate of growth would clearly be slower at your 20 year rate and I'm pretty sure people be dying faster than they were being replaced at your 50 - 100 year rate.  It would still be crowded in places but getting better.

Apparently if you crowded ever human being on the planet shoulder to shoulder in one place we'd fit into an area the size of Los Angeles.

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On 5/18/2019 at 6:42 AM, eyeball said:

Apparently if you crowded ever human being on the planet shoulder to shoulder in one place we'd fit into an area the size of Los Angeles.

Don't know about that, but then you have everyone's vehicle (some people have more than one, some might have none), everyone's property (some people have huge properties, some have none), everyone's house, belongings and then we go into what companies have - trains and railways, airplanes and airports, highways, shipyards and ships, mines, oil and gas wells and platforms ....and before you know it, we are in today's crazy situations where most of the land is developed and taken over by humans and they will be now fighting over the Arctic for whatever resources lie under the ice there.    A very scary situation to me.  And I see how the old growth forests around me are being cut down and how this affects water flows and water circulation as a whole and it adds to the global problem of crazy weather patterns, where our moisture goes to Saskatchewan or Quebec and drowns them there.     

What I want to say is what we have as a population now is way beyond sustainable.  To deal with this we have to stop population growth and then re-assess our operations to make everything way more efficient than it is now.    It drives me nuts to see a single guy in a huge 4x4 truck spewing clouds of black smoke when accelerating like crazy for no reason on a perfectly good highway.  (just one example when I can give you 1,000 of them as a minimum)

 

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46 minutes ago, cougar said:

 What I want to say is what we have as a population now is way beyond sustainable.  To deal with this we have to stop population growth and then re-assess our operations to make everything way more efficient than it is now.    It drives me nuts to see a single guy in a huge 4x4 truck spewing clouds of black smoke when accelerating like crazy for no reason on a perfectly good highway.  (just one example when I can give you 1,000 of them as a minimum)

There's lots that's unsustainable all right but the fact remains the rate at which we're growing in number is slowing. That's probably a first for humanity so I choose to live in hope.

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23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

the rate at which we're growing

if there is ANY new growth , there is no hope.

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12 minutes ago, cougar said:

if there is ANY new growth , there is no hope.

Then why did you get out of bed this morning?

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33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then why did you get out of bed this morning?

For the same reason slaves continued to be slaves and serve their masters.  Alive seems better than nothing.

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7 hours ago, cougar said:

For the same reason slaves continued to be slaves and serve their masters.  Alive seems better than nothing.

You know what they say about lemons and lemonade.

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