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How Do We Deal With Overpopulation, While Respecting Human Rights?

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1 hour ago, dre said:

Yes things like hydroponics could sustain a tiny population. But that will not compensate for the fact that traditional farming and organic growth that have kept both humans and livestock alive for thousands of years will not be possible in another 60 at the current rate.

All the dirt will be gone, and it will take thousands of years for it to return.

Heres an interesting article about it. SE is 10 thousand times the threat that terrorism, or global warming  will ever be, yet most people have not even heard of it.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

The could be our "near extinction" event. 

Yep, another series environmental concern. And one that is made worse by the push for "biofuels" which use vast amounts of farmland to grow corn and other crops for fuel, while not actually reducing CO2 emissions. 

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Let me ask you this. If you were a paid policy adviser, and you were asked to come up with solutions to deal with overpopulation, that are ethical, what solutions would you recommend?

I rather hear the difference of opinions on the solutions to overpopulation, than only debate on weather or not it exists. If you disagree with a wide-scale vasectomy method, what other ideas do you have, that could be ethical, and get meaningful results? 

I want to see links, articles, ideas, and concepts, showing things that are actually being done to fight overpopulation in 2017.

Edited by Robert Greene

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11 hours ago, Robert Greene said:

what other ideas do you have, that could be ethical, and get meaningful results?

It appears that countries with a high standard of life have a low or negative population growth rate, perhaps improving the lot in life for everyone would help address population growth concerns. One big impediment to curbing population growth appears to be religion.

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On 12/15/2017 at 4:51 AM, Robert Greene said:

If you had to choose between the Vasectomy, or watching the Amazon be cut down, what would you choose?

I would choose neither unless of course the man wanted the vasectomy.  What I would suggest is addressing poverty in those countries which are overpopulated, improve the literacy, provide free contraception, free access to abortion, eliminate early marriage.  Change the culture of many of these countries.  In India, men are considered the bread winners, so children are produced until  a male child  is born. Provide equal rights to women.

This is a good article that addresses overpopulation in India.  It can probably be applied to most over populated countries as well. 

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3 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

I would choose neither unless of course the man wanted the vasectomy.  What I would suggest is addressing poverty in those countries which are overpopulated, improve the literacy, provide free contraception, free access to abortion, eliminate early marriage.  Change the culture of many of these countries.  In India, men are considered the bread winners, so children are produced until  a male child  is born. Provide equal rights to women.

This is a good article that addresses overpopulation in India.  It can probably be applied to most over populated countries as well. 

All good ideas which I think are relevant, but there is not enough good will to achieve them in a timely manner. We will procrastinate ('what warming? what animal extinction?") until the house is on fire.

In my opinion, we're not going to save this world. We're going to screw the pooch until it's far too late. It's probably too late already, industrial society is a freight train that will not be stopped by some hippies waving peace signs and flowers. I think good old Earth is going to roll over and squash us, and we will be gone, and this is not a "bad" thing. Just part of nature. A million years later, all will be well again for life on Earth (sans humans). Giant roaches will type out Shakespearean prose on their typewriters, with segmented, multiple appendages. Then they'll invent computers... the damned computers that will be their final undoing... and ever on the cycle goes, until the sun is gone and the Earth is a burned, black cinder floating in space. No need to fret about it though.

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First of all, let me congratulate all for even bringing up this topic.  The vast majority of the world, left and right politically, are about as ill-informed as my drug-addled idol, John Lennon.   Phenomeal musician, heart in the right place, but head stuck up his arse.  This is THE #1 problem on this planet.  It is the cause of many of the other problems that are attributed to all sorts of things, but seldom to the real reason:  too many people on a planet NOT just with finite resources, but with a very limited rate of replacing those that we have changed in nature to be useable once more.

The politically left crap about third world countries being exploited for cheap labour does not belong in this discussion.   The biggest offender for what will eventually topple the apple cart is Africa.   Just take a good look around WalMart and tell me how many things have a "made in  Zimbabwe" label.  Or Somalia, or Yemen, etc.  Places with exceptionally high population growth still have such a backwards version of what is supposed to pass for "civilization" that they have exceptionally high birth rates in the hope that enough children will survive to support the parents in their old age.  Since they don't have functioning economies, they really don't have any way to be exploited by the standard boogey man of the left, the capitalist pig.   The exploiting is all done by their own leaders - who will plunder all of the resources they can access while doing noting but waging war, often coupled with genocide on their subjects/citizens.  Yeah, those are the values that our glorious leader and his Liberal government are trying to impose on Canada through truly STUPID and ignorant immigration policies.

India is not a third world country, it is a developing nation with a very buoyant economy - and once again, I need to point out who is exploiting all of that cheap labour - Indians.   Yes, Eastern capitalist pigs, not Western ones.  China,  of course, is still supposed to be a developing nation, but with the second largest economy on the planet, gone from zero to hero in three short decades, it is really more deserving of being called a first world nation.  Once again, while there sure as hell is a HUGE amount of relatively cheap labour - ask a Chinese person if they feel exploited, and they will laugh in your face.  Since China how has more billionaires than the US, who do you think is "exploiting" that cheap and highly productive labour and who is sitting there with no industry left in their country and shelves full of Chinese products?

Another obvious HUGE difference between China and the rest of the world, they are the only country to figure out that population is a problem and actually DO something about it.  Unfortunately, in the zeal (tempered by a fair chunk of realism - knowing that people are going to lie and cheat like mad over this one) they had to choose between 2 as sustaining the problem or 1 as reducing the problem and forgot about the cost thing when the current bubble of aging Chinese need to retire.  Mao had a much faster way by simply starving them to death (it was 20mm by Chinese Communist Party numbers, much close to 100mm from those who know better), but this is not supposed to be tolerable to modern society. 

So what is?  You can see here what a kindly gesture of sterilization gets for rousing approval.  You think that is bad, just try selling that idea to someone who still lives in a cave-man culture where his manhood ranks somewhere above his need for monogomy to provide for an HIV free future.  Of all cultures, sub-Saharan (and super-Saharan) ones are simply not going to let you knacker their men for the benefit of a future they care not to see.  Ignorance, corruption and tribalism are the very stuff of their existance, not some concern for the problems of the world or mankind.  That applies pretty well as you move East, but not quite the same once you hit China.

If you really want to see people stop breeding like rabbits, your best bet is to pay good $$ for historectomies.  In societies and cultures that refuse to accept that HIV is real, you really think they are going to embrace free contraception>?>?

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On 11/12/2017 at 8:26 AM, Altai said:

Big part of the World is still empty.

No part of the world that can support life is empty. The life that it supports may not be human, but that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

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"How Do We Deal With Overpopulation, While Respecting Human Rights?"

How important is it to respect human rights? The human overpopulation of the planet adversely affects billions of sentient creatures, most of which aren't human. Perhaps it's time to start sacrificing human rights for the sake of other animals.

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On 11/12/2017 at 3:38 AM, Bonam said:

Population growth doesn't happen in Western countries. All Western countries have sub-replacement birth rates.

Depends on what you think of as the West. Croatia may be in eastern Europe, but its culture is more western than eastern. Yet there is currently a movement here for
intentional rapid population growth. (As usual in this benighted part of the world, there is a racial agenda: the additional population that's desired should consist only of Croats. Syrian refugees, for example, are not welcome.) The imbeciles in Parliament (yes, the same idiots who honoured Praljak) even proposed offering Croatian women a lump sum of money for each child they produced.

On 16/12/2017 at 10:50 PM, ?Impact said:

It appears that countries with a high standard of life have a low or negative population growth rate, perhaps improving the lot in life for everyone would help address population growth concerns. One big impediment to curbing population growth appears to be religion.

Again, Croatia's standard of life may be very low by European standards, but I doubt it could be described as low by global standards. Yet there is currently a movement here...[see above]. As it happens, Croatia is one of the staunchest Catholic countries on the continent, and there is certainly a link here between religion and willingness to overpopulate.

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On 17/12/2017 at 4:22 AM, OftenWrong said:

All good ideas which I think are relevant, but there is not enough good will to achieve them in a timely manner. We will procrastinate ('what warming? what animal extinction?") until the house is on fire.

In my opinion, we're not going to save this world. We're going to screw the pooch until it's far too late. It's probably too late already, industrial society is a freight train that will not be stopped by some hippies waving peace signs and flowers. I think good old Earth is going to roll over and squash us, and we will be gone, and this is not a "bad" thing. Just part of nature. A million years later, all will be well again for life on Earth (sans humans). Giant roaches will type out Shakespearean prose on their typewriters, with segmented, multiple appendages. Then they'll invent computers... the damned computers that will be their final undoing... and ever on the cycle goes, until the sun is gone and the Earth is a burned, black cinder floating in space. No need to fret about it though.

You are absolutely right! We already have procrastinated too long, and I, for one, am convinced that global catastrophe is now unstoppable. On a cosmic scale, the little blip of the human species will get what it deserves. The really sad part is that there will be immense suffering by beings that have contributed nothing to the problem: humans yet to be born, along with the countless other animals that we don't have adequate compassion for.

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I doubt we'll be going extinct anytime soon, we're an even weedier species than cockroaches, we can even survive in space.  Speaking of which we'll be like the proverbial monsters from outer space should we ever land on your planet.  God help you if you're tasty or we believe eating you will give us a bigger shlong.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I doubt we'll be going extinct anytime soon, we're an even weedier species than cockroaches, we can even survive in space.  Speaking of which we'll be like the proverbial monsters from outer space should we ever land on your planet.  God help you if you're tasty or we believe eating you will give us a bigger shlong.

Extinct no, but what will be the condition of living and our environment before we smarten up?

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44 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Extinct no, but what will be the condition of living and our environment before we smarten up?

It'll always be a relative condition.  Someone somewhere will always have it better - they'll be dining on fresh cockroaches instead of frozen for example.

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On 12/15/2017 at 4:03 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Overpopulation is by far a greater problem in nations like Canada than places where poor families have many children.  Your 'ethical' population is for Canadians, ie. the biggest problem makers on earth, to travel to third world countries and pay them $2 to never have children.  I think it's disgusting.

2. You have this backwards.  In fact, having money makes people have fewer children.

3. How ethical of you.  I'm sure when you show up in the third world hut with your vasectomy scissors at the ready, the fathers will be thanking of you and your ethicality.

Are you able to ever think with some common sense and logic for a change? It is not Canada that is overpopulated, it is just about every third world country in the world that is overpopulated. While Canadians have maybe three children at the most, most of those third world immigrants coming to Canada are having more than three children. They are continuing from where they left off when they immigrated to Canada. They are now trying now to overpopulate Canada. They are why Canada is becoming overpopulated. Canada has a population of 35 million while just about every third world country on earth have populations a way far higher than Canada has. 

What Canada should be doing is offering incentives for them to stop having so many children. That sounds like the ethical thing to be doing. As long as Canada just keeps giving them more foreign-aid welfare they will just keep on breeding like rabbits. Why someone in the third world would want to have five, six or seven or more children is beyond me when they cannot even afford to feed one. You appear to be one of those bleeding heart liberals who feels that Canada owes these people a living. As a Canadian I owe them sweet dik all. I think that they just like to screw because they have nothing better to do. Hey, instead of sitting around looking at the walls let's go see if we can have another child. That is disgusting. 

 

 

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On 12/16/2017 at 2:37 AM, Robert Greene said:

Let me ask you this. If you were a paid policy adviser, and you were asked to come up with solutions to deal with overpopulation, that are ethical, what solutions would you recommend?

I rather hear the difference of opinions on the solutions to overpopulation, than only debate on weather or not it exists. If you disagree with a wide-scale vasectomy method, what other ideas do you have, that could be ethical, and get meaningful results? 

I want to see links, articles, ideas, and concepts, showing things that are actually being done to fight overpopulation in 2017.

At least you have given it some thought and have come up with at least one solution to the worlds overpopulation. Vasectomies being one and birth control pills being the other or they can be sterilized by giving them vaccinations loaded with ingredients that are able to stop the third world people from having more children. It is not the Western countries that are causing the world to become overpopulated. It is the third world. And as more of these third world immigrants are able to immigrate to all Western countries including Canada they will be the ones behind the overpopulating of Canada. Our immigration policy also needs to be overhauled. Presently, 80% of our new immigrants that are coming to Canada are coming from the third world. A recipe for disaster, and our medical and social services, the environment and our infrastructure will pay the price. Canada needs to implement a moratorium on immigration for several years in order to prevent possible chaos happening as a result of all this third world immigration. 

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On 12/15/2017 at 3:47 AM, Robert Greene said:

I have an ethical solution to overpopulation. Instead of sponsor a child, it's called "sponsor a vasectomy". The most racist thing we can do to the third world, is ignore it, and let them breed at unsustainable levels, while the globalist continue to exploit their endless supply of cheap labor. If $100 could pay for 50 vasectomies, i'd give that money in a heartbeat.

As third world populations start to stabilize, wages would start to go up, and their quality of life, and environment would improve.

I'd only have one condition, the vasectomy can only be performed after a fathers second child. We have to respect the dignity of a normal family size. I think that's an ethical compromise, that still encourages parenthood, at a reasonable level.

I would also refuse to pay a carbon tax to environmental scammers, until the agree to use that money to pay for ethical solutions to fight overpopulation. We shouldn't tolerate the hypocrisy.

Take this conversation to other forums. And sell the concept of "Ethical Depopulation" as a solution to the environment, climate change, and quality of life, for the world's citizens. Let's lobby for wide-scale vasectomies programs to be paid for by governments, and charities. Start a research pool, and get documentaries made. Demand that media cover this issue. Overpopulation is the number one cause of climate change, but their are ethical ways to slow it down. Do not compromise on political correctness, but be as ethical as possible.

I would gladly pay also just so we do not have to continue to take anymore of their refugees. Those refugees are costing Canadians billions every year with no doubt more to come in the near future with the likes of Trudeau around wanting to bring in more refugees if he can. Maybe if he had to pay for the upkeep of a few of those refugees out of his own pocket I am pretty sure that refugee immigration would stop forever. When our fearless leaders have to start paying for their programs and agendas out of their own pockets, a lot of useless programs and agnedas would quickly come to an end. I always believed that what the West should be doing is forcing these people in the third world to have only a maximum of two kids, get them educated, and then get them to stay home and help build up their own countries. And try to get rid of their ancient and archaic religions. That is one of their big problems also. 

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10 hours ago, taxme said:

At least you have given it some thought and have come up with at least one solution to the worlds overpopulation. Vasectomies being one and birth control pills being the other or they can be sterilized by giving them vaccinations loaded with ingredients that are able to stop the third world people from having more children. It is not the Western countries that are causing the world to become overpopulated. It is the third world. And as more of these third world immigrants are able to immigrate to all Western countries including Canada they will be the ones behind the overpopulating of Canada. Our immigration policy also needs to be overhauled. Presently, 80% of our new immigrants that are coming to Canada are coming from the third world. A recipe for disaster, and our medical and social services, the environment and our infrastructure will pay the price. Canada needs to implement a moratorium on immigration for several years in order to prevent possible chaos happening as a result of all this third world immigration. 

The vaccine solution should be considered a crime against humanity. When we refuse to have a public policy on overpopulation, the elite will use their own solutions, and keep it hidden from us. These chemical solutions not only reduce fertility in humans, they reduce the fertility in other animals as well. Even a compulsory vasectomy method is more ethical, than secret chemical solutions that are probably increasing the risk cancer and other side effects. Don't think the elite don't have the power to mess with the food and water supply. When we refuse to allow public conversations on overpopulation, we create a void, where the covert takes place. How do we force mainstream media, such as the CBC, to cover the consequences of overpopulation?

We need to realize that there are big money interests behind the rapid growth of Canadian Cities. I believe a large scale real estate ponzi scheme is taking place, making it harder for the next generation to purchase homes. Corrupt real estate speculation is behind overpopulation in Canadian Cities, and overpopulation in the world. Home ownership equals debt, debt equals dependency, and dependency can be controlled.

Here's a documentary on overpopulation in Manila. Give it at least 5 minutes of your time.

 

Edited by Robert Greene

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On 12/22/2017 at 6:13 AM, Robert Greene said:

The vaccine solution should be considered a crime against humanity. When we refuse to have a public policy on overpopulation, the elite will use their own solutions, and keep it hidden from us. These chemical solutions not only reduce fertility in humans, they reduce the fertility in other animals as well. Even a compulsory vasectomy method is more ethical, than secret chemical solutions that are probably increasing the risk cancer and other side effects. Don't think the elite don't have the power to mess with the food and water supply. When we refuse to allow public conversations on overpopulation, we create a void, where the covert takes place. How do we force mainstream media, such as the CBC, to cover the consequences of overpopulation?

We need to realize that there are big money interests behind the rapid growth of Canadian Cities. I believe a large scale real estate ponzi scheme is taking place, making it harder for the next generation to purchase homes. Corrupt real estate speculation is behind overpopulation in Canadian Cities, and overpopulation in the world. Home ownership equals debt, debt equals dependency, and dependency can be controlled.

Here's a documentary on overpopulation in Manila. Give it at least 5 minutes of your time.

 

Great video. It's disgusting as to why people will live in such filth. These people cannot be human because they live like animals which is an insult to all animals as animals know better. Animals do not have more babies when food is short. These people are the authors of their own demise. They have allowed themselves to live in constant poverty because they refuse to stop breeding. Why would any sane normal people want to bring 7 or 8 or 9 children into the world when they can hardly afford to have one. This nonsense that if they have more children those children when grownup will look after them in their old days is ridiculous. Maybe if they didn't have so many children they would be able to look after their own selves in their old age. I have no pity or mercy for them because they refuse to do anything about the problem. I guess in some ways the government and religion can be blamed for most of this poverty. 

There is a third world overpopulation problem and it is time for vasectomies, birth control pills and even vaccinations that contain sterile chemicals to be handed out and given to these breeders in the third world to help them to stop having babies. What is needed is not more foreign-aid or the bringing into the West more of these people, it is now time for some tough love here. Enough already. 

Some members here seem to feel that what Canada needs is more immigration, not less. These are the ones that are the problem with Canada becoming overpopulated. They appear to want to be the part of the problem, and not the solution. Our biggest concern in Canada is that our dear puppet on a string politically correct politicians seem to feel that more immigration is better for the country. These people are nuts. The elite corporations and banksters are running and ruining Canada, and the West, with the help of these political fools. And Canadians are to stunned to see it or if they do could careless. Stay silent, don't rock the boat. All I can say is that thank god, if there is one, that I was born in a Caucasian country, and not one of those third world ones. If we keep bringing hundreds of thousands every year into Canada from the third world they will begin to outnumber the white folk, and we may all end up living in a third world hell hole like that video showed us. Caucasians countries all over the world are slowly going to loose their country and it's values, traditions, heritages, and maybe even their languages if allowed to continue. We can see in some European countries today that there are many no go zones for the host people of those countries to not be able enter anymore or else. Even the police will not enter those zones. Chaos is about the get worse, but do our politicians care? Apparently, not. It would appear as though they want to and are in favor of destroying their own countries and their people for a few ounces of gold. Government "IS" the problem, never the solution. The writing is on the wall. Time to read that writing now. :(

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On 12/14/2017 at 6:55 PM, taxme said:

It is not the Western countries that has the population problem. It is the third world that is creating that overpopulation problem. By all the Western countries allowing for more third world immigration into their countries is just telling all those third world countries to keep on breeding, we will pick up the many millions that you have over produced, and take them in and care of them. If all Western countries closed down their borders to all those massive amounts of birth rates in those third world countries the politicians of those countries would have no choice but to implement some kind of plan to stop the birthrate. It seems so simple but for some unknown reason simplicity is not the way to go about doing things. Life has to be made difficult for all. We can thank all our politicians for that mess. Those a-holes could not run a lemonade stand without fkn it up. I would love to see Canada introduce a moratorium on immigration to ease those housing markets and the toll on our environment and infrastructure and until we can get our own unemployed back to work. It makes no sense to be bringing in hundreds of thousands of new immigrants into Canada when there are two million Canadians unemployed. Why is that so hard for most people and politicians to not be able to figure that one out. Using common sense and logic is just not the Canadian way. The Canadian way is how can we make things worse. 

This is my argument towards what and how I feel that needs to be done with our over populated world crisis. Tough love is required sometimes, and not this continuous and constant emotionalism and foolish talk in trying to solve the problem. What think you? 

I am gob-smacked. Taxme and Queenmandy agree on something.

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A real, but politically difficult solution is a world-wide program to randomly sterilize 2 out of five babies at birth but not let anyone know who was sterilized. That way, fewer fertile people would actually mate with another fertile person and the population would decline in a few generations. Once we get down to under a billion, we can re-adjust the numbers to stablize the population. That is about as likely as me agreeing with honourable friend, Taxme again.

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8 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

A real, but politically difficult solution is a world-wide program to randomly sterilize 2 out of five babies at birth but not let anyone know who was sterilized. That way, fewer fertile people would actually mate with another fertile person and the population would decline in a few generations. Once we get down to under a billion, we can re-adjust the numbers to stablize the population. That is about as likely as me agreeing with honourable friend, Taxme again.

I'd chip in on that!

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Many people are concerned about over population, which I think is a misplaced concern.  Without going into all the arguments for or against this concern, I will upset the atheists and agnostics and other non-believers in Christ by saying I believe God has the matter under control.  First the Bible describes the most important things in life and overpopulation is not one of them.  Jesus said we will always have wars and rumours of wars.  We know there have been huge plagues in the past, such as the Black Plague which wiped out something like a quarter of Europe.  The deadly strain of influenza wiped out millions of people around 1918.   The deadly virus called the Communist revolution wiped out another 100 million people in the USSR and China in the 20th century.  Many countries have nuclear weapons and little rocket man has been quite threatening in recent times.  Who know where that is going.  Hopefully not a war.

Also, Canada itself has a vast geographical area with a relatively small population. 

Statistics indicate the Caucasian population in Canada is actually  in decline.  The minimum number of children per family to sustain an ethnic group is 2.1  Many parts of Canada do not maintain that level in the Caucasian group.  Other immigrants from Africa, the middle east, Asia and north American aboriginals exceed the 2.1 children per family, so it appears they will become the majority before many decades.

My main point is the KJV Bible does not mention overpopulation as an issue.  The Bible does prophecy things in general will get worse on the earth, until at some point there will be an Armageddon in the middle east involving the whole world, possibly a nuclear holocaust, and at that point Jesus Christ will return and establish his rule.  There are more important issues that threaten mankind such as wars, lawlessness, and ungodliness of all kinds.  Tensions between nations are prophesied to get worse.  We see that happening at times now with stresses with terrorism, N. Korea, Iran, Russia, etc.

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If you're doing this to reduce impact, you should sterilize Canadians at 5X the world average.   This came up a few pages ago when a kindly Canadian felt that sterilizing Bangladeshis would solve his garbage problem.... somehow.

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12 hours ago, blackbird said:

The Bible does prophecy things in general will get worse on the earth, until at some point there will be an Armageddon in the middle east involving the whole world,

Yeah but you guys actually look forward to this so why all the doom and gloom?

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8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you're doing this to reduce impact, you should sterilize Canadians at 5X the world average.   This came up a few pages ago when a kindly Canadian felt that sterilizing Bangladeshis would solve his garbage problem.... somehow.

Methinks you don't understand how overpopulation works. You don't get a lot of results by sterilizing people who are on average gonna have only 1 kid anyway. 

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