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GostHacked

Iran needs some democracy

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Hey USA, UN et al,  DON'T turn Iran into the failed Iraq.   That is all.

 

So lots of protests and people getting killed, my timeline is 6 months before they get some 'democracy and freedom'.  What say you?

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/iran-s-top-leader-blames-protests-on-meddling-by-enemies-1.3741933

Hmm foreign entities causing trouble for Iran? Let's hope this ain't more fake news!

Edited by GostHacked

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23 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

So lots of protests and people getting killed, my timeline is 6 months before they get some 'democracy and freedom'.  What say you?

I say... naaaah. I remember another much anticipated event, "Arab Spring" with basically amounted to SFA, or even worse. No chance the Ayatollahs are going to allow it. They just haven't gotten around to really putting the screws to the protesters yet.

Besides, from what I heard this started as mainly a dispute over unemployment and food prices, not the blessings of democracy.

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I doubt the US would invade.  As such, it feels more like Syria than Iraq.  The US can encourage the dissident groups, and help them - as I think they admitted today - but they will not be able to control the result any more than in other similar collapses that have happened recently.  

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In 1979, Jimmy Carter wanted to agree with everyone, Iran, even the Soviets.

In 1982, Ronald Reagan refused to meet with the Soviets.

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9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I doubt the US would invade.  As such, it feels more like Syria than Iraq.  The US can encourage the dissident groups, and help them - as I think they admitted today - but they will not be able to control the result any more than in other similar collapses that have happened recently.  

So endless 'civil war' perpetrated by outside sources? That's Syria.

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I was asked to post the following by another member:

Quote

These people are starving for both food and freedom. They feel their country is under occupation past 1400 years and see it their duty to liberate it. They have been under a brutal clerical regime and have seen their lives and country destroyed and their basic freedom taken away. They also want the oil money to spend on them to improve their lives rather than in Syria or Lebanan.

These are some of the slogans:

We will die and we will take back our country

We do not want Islamic republic

Mullahs must get lost

We are Aryans we do not worship Arabs

Not Gaze, not lebanan my life for Iran

Get out of Syria and think of us

Events in Iran or any change will affect every citizen of the world not just the people of Iran for manyreasons. Same way that the world changed or started to change in 1979. The outcome will decide how safe or dangerous the world will be, the price of oil, the likelihood of a world war and future of islamic extremism.

It won't be like Iraq or Syria. Iran is neither syria or iraq, it is not an Arab country. It is a country with long history of civilization and history of an Empire. Its people have overcome many occupations past 2500 years and will again. It will be up to the Iranian people to decide the fate of their country but the west must be watching and free world must not allow another massacre taking place. For that more than talk is needed. The world must make them understand a crackdown will bring back full economic sanctions by US and EU. In which case they won't have money to pay the guard to constantly prop up the regime against its people with strong desire for change and freedom.

 

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I've been led to believe that in countries such as Iran and Turkey the difference between big cities and the countryside is huge. In Tehran and Istanbul you can hardly see any difference compared to any Western-European city. In the countryside of both countries it is very strict adherence to muslim-values.

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17 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Hey USA, UN et al,  DON'T turn Iran into the failed Iraq.   That is all.

 

So lots of protests and people getting killed, my timeline is 6 months before they get some 'democracy and freedom'.  What say you?

Doubt it. Iran had larger scale protests a few years back when Ahmanidijad or whatever his name was won the election instead of the "reformist" presidential rival. And then everything re-stabilized for the most part. I think Iran is more stable than most people give it credit for. 

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I'm guessing Donald Trump likes this and wants to make it a bigger deal than it really is. But we can always hope that things change for the better for the people of Iran, and not in a violent way. Again, very unlikely that a harsh, intolerant administration can be turned around. It risks descending into the shit-hole that is Iraq. (for further info see "There's always a deeper shit-hole theory")

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What's the big deal ?   "Democracies" like Canada and the U.S. routinely have protests and riots (some violent) as a matter of course.

Let the Iranians fight it out just like everybody else.

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

What's the big deal ?   "Democracies" like Canada and the U.S. routinely have protests and riots (some violent) as a matter of course.

Let the Iranians fight it out just like everybody else.

At least it's not because they lost game 7.

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11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

What's the big deal ?   "Democracies" like Canada and the U.S. routinely have protests and riots (some violent) as a matter of course.

Let the Iranians fight it out just like everybody else.

However, the USA has a problem with sticking their nose everywhere.  The BOOM towers fall to the ground.

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On 1/2/2018 at 5:35 PM, GostHacked said:

Hey USA, UN et al,  DON'T turn Iran into the failed Iraq.   That is all.

 

So lots of protests and people getting killed, my timeline is 6 months before they get some 'democracy and freedom'.  What say you?

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/iran-s-top-leader-blames-protests-on-meddling-by-enemies-1.3741933

Hmm foreign entities causing trouble for Iran? Let's hope this ain't more fake news!

I don't believe Iran or in fact most of the world understand the western concept of "democracy".   We in the west often automatically think other parts of the world, like middle eastern countries should understand and embrace our concepts of democracy.  But I think they don't understand and perhaps think we are wrong.  Our system is not widely embraced in the world.  There is even some valid points that our system does not always produce good results or good decisions.

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I will say this for a poster who has asked I speak out as well. I have close friends who left Iran for Israel and Canada-some Jews, some Bahaiis, some Muslims. I also know gays, Zoroastreans who had to leave Iran. I don't claim to speak for Iranians. I do listen to many that came here to get away from the extremist fundamentalist theocracy. Iran had its issues with its Shah yes but it was a modern nation. Persians as I call Iranians because they are Persian, were not enemies of Israel or the West or anyone.

Since the theocracy took over people have been living under tyranny.  Brave Iranians-Persians have died, been tortured,  trying to change the government. Students can and do die and get tortured as do journalists, etc.

Ironically we have trendy leftists in this country who speak out saying the Hijab is something we should be tolerant of and yet in Iran it can be seen as a symbol of repression against women. We don't get what it means in Iran. We don't get what Iranians live with. We have idiots like the brother of Justin Trudeau who made a bull crap documentary extolling the virtues of the theocracy in Iran.

I can only pray the people of Iran find their way out of their current situation and I think we should support the students, the people morally try break free. Its a struggle no different then people breaking free from the Communist regimes in the East of Europe at one point. Our Prime Minister should speak up a bit more. I know Iranians in Canada fear if they say anything their families back home might get it. I get that. So I just say to them, I think many of us hope your people win their battle for freedom.

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Any reasonable person would like to see democracy in Iran. The question is how best to assist that process. The Iranian people continue to choose the most liberal they are offered. We may have to simply wait for the current leadership to die off before deeper reforms occur. 

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Apparently the prospect of democracy was so completely unreasonable in Iran in 1953 that we actually went out of our way to prevent it.

Strange but true.

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20 hours ago, eyeball said:

Apparently the prospect of democracy was so completely unreasonable in Iran in 1953 that we actually went out of our way to prevent it.

Strange but true.

Good point.

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1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

Good point.

 

Yes a Soviet satellite puppet nation that steals other countries' property is always a good idea.

Protesters in Iran are calling for the Shah's son to take charge. I'm with them...you're with the bearded fellows.

Edited by DogOnPorch

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10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Protesters in Iran are calling for the Shah's son to take charge. I'm with them...you're with the bearded fellows.

If that's what Iranians want they should decide, we'll be no better than the bearded fellows should it be us that forces another Shah on them.  The reason we're at this point in history.

Quote

Yes a Soviet satellite puppet nation that steals other countries property is always a good idea.

I guess, we didn't give them any more choice than we had.

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

If that's what Iranians want they should decide, we'll be no better than the bearded fellows should it be us that forces another Shah on them.  The reason we're at this point in history.

I guess, we didn't give them any more choice than we had.

 

Since you have no actual clue what happened back then, I'd suggest you Google 1946 Iran Crisis for an ID on the fellows that you support in terms of "Iranian democracy". The Tudeh Party...all your 'democracy needs' rolled into one.

But you were a fan of the USSR rather than the West when younger. Weren't you?

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On 1/4/2018 at 6:04 AM, GostHacked said:

However, the USA has a problem with sticking their nose everywhere. 

 

Unlike the rest of the planet's nations.

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21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Apparently the prospect of democracy was so completely unreasonable in Iran in 1953 that we actually went out of our way to prevent it.

Strange but true.

Nobody can force a country to adopt western style democracy because that's not how they think.  It would require most of the population to change their thinking which they are not capable or willing to do.  You're beating a dead horse. 

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10 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Since you have no actual clue what happened back then, I'd suggest you Google 1946 Iran Crisis for an ID on the fellows that you support in terms of "Iranian democracy". The Tudeh Party...all your 'democracy needs' rolled into one.

But you were a fan of the USSR rather than the West when younger. Weren't you?

Doesn't justify subverting another countries democracy because you don't like the policies they adopt. 

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The biggest shit disturbers in the Middle East are Saudi (with their support of Al Qaeda and ISIS) and their horrific attacks on Yemen and of course Israel. The borderless, rogue nuclear state. 

If anyone needs regime change, it's the strange bedfellows, Saudi and Israel. 

That said, countries should be left to sort out their own shit. This includes, not supporting their governments or any government who is fighting against them. 

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13 hours ago, blackbird said:

Nobody can force a country to adopt western style democracy because that's not how they think. 

So what, the issue is that nothing justifies the west's Shiniest Beacons of democracy overthrowing democracy in Iran in 1953 and then installing a brutal bloodthirsty dictator, especially after turning around 65 years later and pretending democracy is finally blossoming where it never blossomed before.

Remember that story about Jesus kicking over the banksters tables?  He probably would have done something similar in the wake of the moral and ethical atrocity and crime against humanity the Shiny Beacons committed in Iran in 1953.

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