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Iran needs some democracy

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Too bad we didn't support the need for democracy in Iran back in 1953.

There's little to no legitimacy left for anyone that's had anything to do with Iran now.

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On 9/17/2018 at 12:12 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The video is one sided and biased FOR the regime and likely why this video was selected to be attached.

Just want to point out that when I posted something from Aljazeera that showed the different elements in this multifaceted situation that went against your black and white world, it automatically became "biased FOR the regime". But you have no problem posting something from the same outlet, that goes with your agenda.

This is why you're not good at debating. It's your way or the highway. 

Carry on with your black and white world and continue to promote your "at any cost" mentality. 

Edited by marcus

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5 hours ago, marcus said:

Carry on with your black and white world and continue to promote your "at any cost" mentality. 

I said the VIDEO was biased because it spent a few seconds criticizing the activities by the regime side and many minutes debating and attacking the anti-regime sides. The coverage was biased.. I did not say Aljazeera was biased.

And you carry on with covering up for the brutal regime and their murderous actions against a defenseless nation. Or even better continue with your unconditional support for Palestinian cause and forget about your own flesh and blood. Shame.

On 10/9/2018 at 1:24 PM, eyeball said:

Too bad we didn't support the need for democracy in Iran back in 1953.

Were not born then.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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7 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Were not born then.

We're no less responsible for the consequences of the actions and inaction of our governments.

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

We're no less responsible for the consequences of the actions and inaction of our governments.

So the Europeans not born yet living next century are responsible for the actions of their governments prostituting themselves to mullahs' regime still trading with them and hence keeping them in power longer so that they can murder and destroy more or the current living people are responsible for these actions?

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6 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So the Europeans not born yet living next century are responsible for the actions of their governments 

If their government is still the same duly constituted government that exists today then yes people in the future remain accountable.

Are you suggesting our grand-kids are not responsible for paying off our national debt?

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23 hours ago, eyeball said:

Are you suggesting our grand-kids are not responsible for paying off our national debt?

They're getting fed, aren't they?  That stuff's not cheap.

And anyway, they can make their grandkids pay for it all.

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

And anyway, they can make their grandkids pay for it all.

They could also tell bonds holders to go stuff themselves. Something we could do too.

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21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They could also tell bonds holders to go stuff themselves. Something we could do too.

Any debt really.  Bit late for me and my mortgage, but go for it anyway.

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Yet even as they demonize the United States, key Iranian officials often fail to mention that their children enjoy the freedom it provides. This reality constitutes yet another face of the regime’s corruption. As Secretary of State Mike Pompeo noted in an address to Iranian-Americans in July, Sadegh Amoli Larijani “is worth at least $300 million. He got this money from embezzling public funds into his own bank account.” Mr. Khamenei, for his part, presides over a business empire worth approximately $200 billion.

Link

 

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On 10/17/2018 at 11:21 AM, marcus said:

 Sadegh Amoli Larijani “is worth at least $300 million. He got this money from embezzling public funds into his own bank account.

 

Worth is not the correct wording as on the contrary He worth shit like all other mullahs but yes he has accumulated a wealth of $300 by stealing from poor starving nation and his corrupt actions. The day of reckoning is close for all these murderous subhumans.

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Indeed subhuman they are. The thing that bothers me is this. Most of these mullahs have reached a Stone Age being literally too old. I hate to see the predicament of their kids studying abroad one day return to Iran to fill the gaps of their forefathers and try to sell (oh wait did I say sell? I take it back) literally shovel a new version of Islam down people's throat. After all, their favourite destination seems to be US, UK and Canada...

Call me cynical but I hate to see the British government recruiting these new wannabes with a new version of islam and send them back to Iran. After all, this is what we saw in Khomeini's legacy when he spent his time in exile in Paris when Shah was in power. Just when the time was ripe before the revolution the French sent him back to Iran with a plane on tight security......

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Despite extreme suppressive measures by mullah's regime Iranians flocked to Pasargad on October 29 to commemorate Cyrus the Great.

Young people beaten up by mercenaries  of the occupying regime and some vehicle impounded however many chose t walk across mountains t reach Pasargad as the mercenary police also had closed the roads days before.

Iran’s authorities appear to have taken measures to prevent citizens from staging a gathering at the tomb of the ancient Persian king Cyrus the Great that attracted thousands of people celebrating the country’s pre-Islamic glory.

Crowds of mostly young Iranians were compelled to use nearby hilltops to continue their path towards the tomb of Cyrus the Great near the ancient city of Pasargad in central province of Fars to celebrate the day unofficially marked in the Iranian calendar as Cyrus Day.

Videos released on social media show them using different paths to reach the site, causing heavy traffic even on the adjacent village roads.

Reports suggest that the authorities dispatched a variety of security units to Pasargad, to prevent people from entering the site.

They blocked roads leading to the tomb from Sunday afternoon to limit the number of people who visit the tomb. Online footage purportedly shows concrete barriers erected on the roads leading to the area.

The state security forces that were stationed at previously launched checkpoints, turned back vehicles that had come from other provinces, only permitting vehicles with local license plates (belonging to nearby cities of Fars Province) to pass through. Iranians with vehicles having license plates from other cities, such as Bandar Abbas, Yazd, and Lorestan Province are saying that authorities preventing them from heading towards Pasargad.

Numerous state police and Revolutionary Guards Basij units were stationed in many areas near an exit from Shiraz leading to Pasargad, preventing people from reaching the site. Some people moved toward Pasargad by foot via detours and mountain paths.

https://iran-hrm.com/index.php/2018/10/29/iran-blocks-gathering-at-tomb-of-ancient-persian-king-cyrus-the-great/

This Arab sympathizer occupying self imposed hated islamic regime is fearful of its own shadows never mind its own people.

LONG LIVE PERSIAN EMPIRE. HAIL TO BRAVE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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On 10/6/2018 at 3:47 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Hardliners Reformists the game is over. Iranians declared they should both go to fuc*ing hell.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/reformist-project-iran-dead-181004192538633.html

Until the outbreak of protests in December 2017, Iran portrayed an image of itself as one of the most stable countries of the Middle East. One can't help but draw a comparison to January 1978, the year before the outbreak of the Islamic Revolution, when Jimmy Carter raised a glass to the Shah and called Iran "an island of stability".

If history has taught us anything, it is the unpredictability of Iranian politics and the fact that the political reality of modern Iran is by no means fixed - rather it is fluid and capable of giving birth to realities unforeseen by stakeholders. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the Reformist movement no longer has legitimacy as a viable democratic alternative.

you waste your time on the forums, muslim
You will not get American citizenship.

You must fight in real life for your homeland.
But you are a coward and a pig

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One big problem in Iran getting back to stability is that the vast majority of people with good education, international contacts and experience are already out of the country.  There IS a large support base for the theocracy, and it comes from mostly uneducated rural people - who are in the majority.  So, even if by some miracle there was a democratic election tomorrow, the side of reason would not necessarily win.

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We do not, and cannot, know how genuine democracy will come to Iran.

It may come via a general strike, followed by an insurrection, which would necessarily cost many lives.

But there are a myriad of other paths.

Note that most of the dictatorships in Europe and Latin America  in the last fifty years were replaced more or less peacefully: Spain, Portugal, Greece, Chile, Argentina, Guatemala ....

This happens when the great majority of civil society decided that the old order must go.

In Iran, a large section of the population believes this -- but there is also a large section which does not -- at least not right now.

Time is on the side of the democrats.   In the meantime, people outside of Iran who want to see more democracy and liberalization there should do everything to support

peaceful dissidents in that country, by publicizing their existence,  bringing the attention of the world community to injustices committed there, and to helping to

integrate Iran into the world.  (For example, cultural exchanges would be a great step forward.)

There are a lot of myths about Iran. This is a great, ancient civilization, with a population which has enormous potential to play a leading role in the

intellectual and economic progress of humanity.  It's not an Islamist North Korea.  A good first step, for those for whom it is possible, would be to subscribe

to some Iranian blogs -- there are many -- and maybe even to visit the place sometime.

 

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On 1/3/2019 at 1:22 PM, Doug1943 said:

We do not, and cannot, know how genuine democracy will come to Iran.

It did come once and we didn't know what to do then either.

The problem with democracy isn't in Iran.

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On 10/12/2018 at 3:44 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So the Europeans not born yet living next century are responsible for the actions of their governments prostituting themselves to mullahs' regime still trading with them and hence keeping them in power longer so that they can murder and destroy more or the current living people are responsible for these actions?

I can sympathize with you, as this is a factor in MANY countries.  For instance: are modern Germans beholding to Jews for the Holucaust?  Why should current Canadian taxpayers be responsible for promises made to aboriginals by the British?   The list goes on.

Eyeball has it right: while individuals may come and go, the very existence of a continuous system of governance means those obligations carry forward.  That is why IMHO the Germans new government after the Third Reich can stand aside, and why after the end of Canada as a member of the British Commonwealth should no longer honour British treaties of the past.

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On 12/31/2018 at 5:46 PM, cannuck said:

One big problem in Iran getting back to stability is that the vast majority of people with good education, international contacts and experience are already out of the country.  There IS a large support base for the theocracy, and it comes from mostly uneducated rural people - who are in the majority.  So, even if by some miracle there was a democratic election tomorrow, the side of reason would not necessarily win.

You are correct about the highly educated Iranian expats, however, you're incorrect about Iranians who are residing in Iran. Iran's education ranking is comparable to the United States and in many areas, they're ranked better.

Check this out: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Iran/United-States/Education 

Edited by marcus

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6 hours ago, marcus said:

You are correct about the highly educated Iranian expats, however, you're incorrect about Iranians who are residing in Iran. Iran's education ranking is comparable to the United States and in many areas, they're ranked better.

Check this out: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Iran/United-States/Education 

Interesting link but we would need to know the numbers behind the numbers and have a complete result for it to mean anything.

The "out of school primary" numbers really are better for Iran than the US, but being in a theocracy, putting a kid in a room with the Imam and pumping their heads full of BS is not, IMHO "education", it is brainwashing.  If you go down to years of compulsory education, you will notice that Iran requires ONLY 8, vs. the US requiring/funding complete secondary school - and the missing stats are the "out of school secondary" that would tell a much more accurate story.  THAT is where my Iranian friends tell me the difference lies and the source of the voter base that sustains the caliphate.

Percentage of government spending on education is the other place Iran surpasses US - but now put a dollar value on it, even a per-capita dollar value and you will rapidly see that the US - even though having far less than stellar overall education - greatly surpasses Iranian spending and results.

The next and by far most telling stat is the literacy rate. Iran in the 70s and US at 99%.  And you think that is indicative of BETTER education?????

Another place Iran outranks the US is in having 7 yrs. vs. 6 for post secondary - but look again and realize they both have 12 years of pri/sec, just that in Iran the declare the separation a year earlier - and note that secondary education is not even mandatory.   Once again, the literacy rate tells you that the "out of school primary" is either a totally false number or the curriculum is theocratic, not academic.

The last thing in which Iran has larger numbers than US, and you seem to be reading as "better" ranking is the student/pupil ratio.  The US is significantly lower (and that IS what is better) in primary and WAY THE FRICK better in secondary - where the few Iranians privileged to even get a secondary education must do so with twice as many students in each class.

I think you need to learn to read a report.  But, what do I know, I just live in a family of many educators.

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5 hours ago, cannuck said:

Interesting link but we would need to know the numbers behind the numbers and have a complete result for it to mean anything.

The "out of school primary" numbers really are better for Iran than the US, but being in a theocracy, putting a kid in a room with the Imam and pumping their heads full of BS is not, IMHO "education", it is brainwashing.  If you go down to years of compulsory education, you will notice that Iran requires ONLY 8, vs. the US requiring/funding complete secondary school - and the missing stats are the "out of school secondary" that would tell a much more accurate story.  THAT is where my Iranian friends tell me the difference lies and the source of the voter base that sustains the caliphate.

Percentage of government spending on education is the other place Iran surpasses US - but now put a dollar value on it, even a per-capita dollar value and you will rapidly see that the US - even though having far less than stellar overall education - greatly surpasses Iranian spending and results.

The next and by far most telling stat is the literacy rate. Iran in the 70s and US at 99%.  And you think that is indicative of BETTER education?????

Another place Iran outranks the US is in having 7 yrs. vs. 6 for post secondary - but look again and realize they both have 12 years of pri/sec, just that in Iran the declare the separation a year earlier - and note that secondary education is not even mandatory.   Once again, the literacy rate tells you that the "out of school primary" is either a totally false number or the curriculum is theocratic, not academic.

The last thing in which Iran has larger numbers than US, and you seem to be reading as "better" ranking is the student/pupil ratio.  The US is significantly lower (and that IS what is better) in primary and WAY THE FRICK better in secondary - where the few Iranians privileged to even get a secondary education must do so with twice as many students in each class.

I think you need to learn to read a report.  But, what do I know, I just live in a family of many educators.

Not sure if you pressed "next" at the bottom for more information and statistics. But regardless, the comparison was not to say Iranians are better educated than Americans. It was to respond to your wrong "feeling" that Iranians, inside Iran are uneducated and your announcement that this is the reason they support the mullahs.

Conclusion: Contrary to what you think,  majority of Iranians don't support the mullahs and they're actually educated as compared to the rest of the world. All of this, despite having a corrupt and incompetent government and despite the heavy economic sanctions imposed on them. 

There isn't much support for the mullahs. They're dictators and do what they can to suppress any opposition. 

Edited by marcus

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4 hours ago, marcus said:

Not sure if you pressed "next" at the bottom for more information and statistics. But regardless, the comparison was not to say Iranians are better educated than Americans. It was to respond to your wrong "feeling" that Iranians, inside Iran are uneducated and your announcement that this is the reason they support the mullahs.

Conclusion: Contrary to what you think,  majority of Iranians don't support the mullahs and they're actually educated as compared to the rest of the world. All of this, despite having a corrupt and incompetent government and despite the heavy economic sanctions imposed on them. 

There isn't much support for the mullahs. They're dictators and do what they can to suppress any opposition. 

That is your conclusion, but it is not shared by my Iranian friends (who are exceedingly well educated, BTW).

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