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Separation ...... what if ?


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When I moved to Vancouver from Montreal several decades ago I did feel like I was actually living in an American state after awhile. Vancouver does have a lot more in common with Seattle than with Tor

I'd settle for an asteroid falling on Ottawa.

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5 hours ago, H10 said:

Ontario is 38% of the population but produces 41% of the economy

http://www.pearsoned.ca/school/secondary/atlas/instructor/ON_Answers.pdf

LMFAO...you are getting your stats from a high school test? What grade are you in.  At least you have quickly retreated from your claim of 60% of Canada's GDP down to 41% however as per the Stats Canada referenced number from the Wiki link I shared, the actual percentage was 39.05%. Using the same population statistics on that chart we see that Ontario makes up 38.5% of the population. Ontario on par for what would be expected of them....nothing better and nothing worse.  Of course these numbers are based on 2016 stats. If you have more recent stats that contradict them them by all means present them. Just present something reputable this time!

 

5 hours ago, H10 said:

So we are building this nation.  We should separate because I am sick and tired of paying for welfare queens in Alberta and Quebec.

I am sure you are just trolling at this point but I'm bored and figure what they hey! You do know that Alberta gives more to the Federal Government than it receives...right? Ontario gives Alberta nothing. Notta, zero, zip, zilch. But maybe you're just overly sensitive as Ontario is back on the Have Not list. 

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11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Lets face it. We would be a lesser country if any one of the provinces separated. We are greater than the sum of our parts. Beyond the economy, there is culture.

....

Would you say that of Iceland, only 300,000 people - a rich (US GDP per capita $60,000) and a civilised country (been to Iceland) in the middle of nowhere.

Queenmandy85, like Trudeau Jnr - but unlike his father, you misunderstand what makes a society civilised. 

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The greatest division of all is the yawning gulf between the governed and their governments.

What people need to unite around are rigorous robust institutions of official accountability and souveillance.  Elected politicians - mostly their cabinets - need to be monitored to degree that would make Orwell blush.

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On 3/16/2018 at 6:28 PM, Accountability Now said:

LMFAO...you are getting your stats from a high school test? What grade are you in.  At least you have quickly retreated from your claim of 60% of Canada's GDP down to 41% however as per the Stats Canada referenced number from the Wiki link I shared, the actual percentage was 39.05%. Using the same population statistics on that chart we see that Ontario makes up 38.5% of the population. Ontario on par for what would be expected of them....nothing better and nothing worse.  Of course these numbers are based on 2016 stats. If you have more recent stats that contradict them them by all means present them. Just present something reputable this time!

 

I am sure you are just trolling at this point but I'm bored and figure what they hey! You do know that Alberta gives more to the Federal Government than it receives...right? Ontario gives Alberta nothing. Notta, zero, zip, zilch. But maybe you're just overly sensitive as Ontario is back on the Have Not list. 

You used wikipedia, a source anyone can edit.  Who cares, look at how much money Ontario had to dump into that cesspool to get it up and running, then look at all the welfare they get when oil prices drop and the environmental disaster they are.

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6 hours ago, H10 said:

You used wikipedia, a source anyone can edit.  

Clearly your comprehension is as bad as your math. I stated that it was a Stats Canada referenced Wiki link...meaning that page sources its info from Stats Canada. If you took the time to read, you would see the source link right below the chart which leads to this page http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a46?lang=eng&childId=3840038&viewId=3

I could have sent you right to this page but there is a lot of info on it and it is apparent how easily you are confused. I assumed the Wiki chart was much easier for you to comprehend.

 

6 hours ago, H10 said:

 Who cares, look at how much money Ontario had to dump into that cesspool to get it up and running, then look at all the welfare they get when oil prices drop and the environmental disaster they are.

I have asked for another MLW member to back up this very claim and they refused to do so. As such I will ask you to do the same. Please cite (using a reputable source and not your high school tests) showing the amount that the Province of Ontario or the Federal government contributed to getting Alberta's economy going. To save time, please also cite the amount of money that Alberta has returned to the country from said 'cesspool' operations. 

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3 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

Clearly your comprehension is as bad as your math. I stated that it was a Stats Canada referenced Wiki link...meaning that page sources its info from Stats Canada. If you took the time to read, you would see the source link right below the chart which leads to this page http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a46?lang=eng&childId=3840038&viewId=3

I could have sent you right to this page but there is a lot of info on it and it is apparent how easily you are confused. I assumed the Wiki chart was much easier for you to comprehend.

 

I have asked for another MLW member to back up this very claim and they refused to do so. As such I will ask you to do the same. Please cite (using a reputable source and not your high school tests) showing the amount that the Province of Ontario or the Federal government contributed to getting Alberta's economy going. To save time, please also cite the amount of money that Alberta has returned to the country from said 'cesspool' operations. 

Highschool test is more reputable than wiki, because it comes from a real textbook, not fake wiki.

You prove how a bunch of poor farmers who couldn't build a school built an oil well.

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1 hour ago, H10 said:

Highschool test is more reputable than wiki, because it comes from a real textbook, not fake wiki.

FFS man...I told you it was referenced from Stats Canada. I even sent you the direct link to see the numbers are exactly the same. Is Stats Canada fake too? With that said at least your highschool number was a lot closer to reality much unlike your earlier 60% blunder. 

1 hour ago, H10 said:

You prove how a bunch of poor farmers who couldn't build a school built an oil well.

The way things work around here is that when a person makes a claim, it is up to that person to back it up. You made the claim so you need to back it up or shut up. Either works. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 12:54 PM, eyeball said:

The greatest division of all is the yawning gulf between the governed and their governments.

What people need to unite around are rigorous robust institutions of official accountability and souveillance.  Elected politicians - mostly their cabinets - need to be monitored to degree that would make Orwell blush.

eyeball, I disagree. Strongly.

What makes America (the West) great and strong is the ability "to throw the buggers out, peacefully". Imagine: Barack Obama sat beside Donald Trump.

=====

The leaders of China and Russia recently showed that they don't understand how the world has changed since the 18th century. 

  

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4 hours ago, August1991 said:

eyeball, I disagree. Strongly

What makes America (the West) great and strong is the ability "to throw the buggers out, peacefully".

  

I agree that's within our abilities but it has nothing to do with what I said, or why. at all.

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The leaders of China and Russia recently showed that they don't understand how the world has changed since the 18th century.

I think they've better demonstrated that they don't care.

Edited by eyeball
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14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I think they've better demonstrated that they don't care.

On the contrary, I think that they do care.

====

The modern belief is that all historical dictators (even current CEOs) are psychopaths without empathy, narcissists. I disagree.

I suspect that Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chou empathized and wanted the best for their fellow citizens: but none were willing to give up "power".

It is the peaceful handing of power, the baton to an opponent, that is the lesson of the 18th century.

This is what makes America (the West) great and strong. Without this, China and Russia are not sustainable societies in this modern world.

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9 hours ago, August1991 said:

On the contrary, I think that they do care.

====

The modern belief is that all historical dictators (even current CEOs) are psychopaths without empathy, narcissists. I disagree.

I suspect that Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chou empathized and wanted the best for their fellow citizens: but none were willing to give up "power".

It is the peaceful handing of power, the baton to an opponent, that is the lesson of the 18th century.

This is what makes America (the West) great and strong. Without this, China and Russia are not sustainable societies in this modern world.

How people or governments come into power is secondary to power itself and the modern belief is that leaders and the institutions they run become sociopathic not psychopathic.  Big difference don't you think?   

However they come and the go the government as they say gets in no matter who wins.  The lesson we need to learn is how to better control over the power the politicians and governments wield.  The use of technology to penetrate the opacity and secretiveness of our institutions is something we should employ - governments may be notoriously lousy at keeping secrets but we usually don't find out what they've been up to until long after the fact.  We need real flies on the walls feeding near real-time information to the governed.

I really do think randomly drafting legislators the way we do juries instead of electing them would also go a long way towards making our governance less hamfisted and gentler on everyone's nerves - sustainable in other words.

Edited by eyeball
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2 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said:

You know, one solution to the problem would be just to join the---oh, nevermind. 

A world government would be better than that, it made up of representatives of the smallest possible areas which control everything possible by direct democracy.

Edited by Penderyn
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