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The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!


Kerfuffle

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The term " Sturmgewehr" essentially means "Assault Rifle" and refers to selective fire weapons that became popular in WWII. Some people may say it is political manipulation because Hitler first used the term, but it seems more likely that he was just quoting what the engineers called it. In addition to selective fire (ie. multiple firing modes like single, burst, and full automatic), assault rifles are supplied with ammunition from a replaceable magazine, they are short compact weapons unlike long guns that are more unwieldy, they have an intermediate power cartridge (ie. more than most handguns but not like a high powered rifle), and must have an effective range of a few hundred yards (again between a handgun and rifle)

Most of these weapons have had minor modifications to remove the selective fire capability so they can sell them to civilians but retain all the other characteristics of assault rifles. Some people use the term assault weapon to refer to the modified weapons to distinguish them from assault rifles, but as we saw in Las Vegas we can have the capability of automatic fire with a simple accessory.

The NRA have spent a lot of money on propaganda to pretend that what is being sold to civilians are not assault rifles by nitpicking minor details, but from all practical purposes they are.

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15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Abortions rights were created via Roe v. Wade by the U.S. Supreme Court, the same court that has affirmed gun rights that, unlike abortions, are specifically enumerated by the 2nd Amendment.   Drawing parallels to abortion "killing" works for the pure political dynamic that is in play, at least for court rulings.  The baby killing abortion rights lobbies refuse to compromise to a "happy medium".

The baby killing abortion rights lobbies refuse to compromise to a "happy medium". Something like the NRA not willing to compromise at all....

Christian right wing extremists are violent anti-abortion adherents use religious concepts and scripture to justify threats, criminal activity and violence.Most are NRA card carrying  gun nuts, spewing hate as they fight women right to abortion.Why would these extremists care about the unborn as they would only shoot them when they were old enough to go to school..

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5 hours ago, kactus said:

Brilliant!!! Let’s blame immigrants if one has mental issues regardless if it is home grown killings....It is sickening how people here associate mental health with immigration. Pretty much sums up Trump supporters.

Read again,  AND UNDERSTAND what I'm saying. 

Edited by betsy
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12 hours ago, betsy said:

It's not the guns.  It's the people who handle the guns.

There are lots of people killed by car crash, or hit by cars.  I don't think there's anyone who actually blamed the cars. 

Cars are made to transport; guns are just made to kill. Nonsense doesn't makes sense just by repeating it over and over. 

Why are they trying to to prevent Iraq and North Korea from getting nukes? It's not the killing machines that kill, it's the people that are using them! If you don't let them have nukes, are you going to take away their cars next?

Debating with right-wingers has become difficult since Obama drove them over the edge and they started babbling gibberish they read online as if it were an argument that makes sense.

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8 hours ago, betsy said:

Nothing is perfect!

Some will slipped through the cracks!

 

Just look at our vetting and screening for terrorists!  How many had gotten in??? 

 

If you're going to scream for banning guns because of people slipping through the cracks - then you should be screaming at Trudeau to ban immigration!  Same principle.

 

What terrorists has Trudeau let in? What are you even talking about? Are you just making up unrelated anecdotes to change the subject from your willingness to maintain the status quo for future school shootings?

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When the U.S. Constitution was drawn up I don't think they had the semi automatic or fully automatic assault rifles they have now.  The prevalence of automatic firearms and easy availability, the widespread ownership of guns, is not going to change as far as I can see.   The killing of around 14,000 citizens a year by guns in the U.S. is likely to continue for he foreseeable future.  The right to own these guns has become a kind of false god or idol, which has come back to bite America in a big way.  I don't agree with the argument that it's not the fault of the gun, but is only the owner who is doing it.  Such a simplistic view is tragic and contributing to this enormous death toll.  Obviously if unstable people or someone who suddenly develops a criminal intent has easy access or can  get the guns, it makes it far more likely he will be able to kill people.  It will be impossible to screen these people out beforehand.  Some with behavioral issues that become known might be screened out, but I would suggest the majority of potential killers will not be screened out.  It is a false hope to place the security and safety of American on some kind of screening process when guns are so readily available everywhere, including military type weapons.

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10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

When the U.S. Constitution was drawn up I don't think they had the semi automatic or fully automatic assault rifles they have now.  The prevalence of automatic firearms and easy availability, the widespread ownership of guns, is not going to change as far as I can see.   The killing of around 14,000 citizens a year by guns in the U.S. is likely to continue for he foreseeable future. 

 

That's right, and maybe even going lower, because the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides and involve hand guns, not "assault rifles". 

U.S. homicide rates are at a 50 year low according to the FBI, despite what some people believe instead of reality:

 

Quote

As Pew has reported in recent years, in fact, the American public is "unaware" that the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. And while Pew doesn't report on it, it's also a safe bet that the public is also unaware that homicide rates have collapsed as total gun ownership in the United States has increased significantly.

Over a recent 20 year period, the number of new guns in the US that were either manufactured in the US or imported into the US increased 141 percent from 6.6 million new guns in 1994 to 16 million in 2013. That means a gross total of 132 million new guns were added into the US population over that time period.

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

 

Lots more guns per capita....but fewer homicides per capita.   

 

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14 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

 

One of the students succinctly pointed out that they are not going to change the 200 year old gun culture.  But the 2nd amendment was put in the Constitution to enable the Americans to have an equipped militia to protect the U.S.  Now the U.S. has a highly equipped military and no longer requires citizen's militias.  That has become redundant.  Everyone can still own hunting rifles and handguns if they are properly certified and screened, but the days of having anyone being able to acquire assault rifles are gone or should be.  Those should no longer be permitted.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's right, and maybe even going lower, because the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides and involve hand guns, not "assault rifles". 

U.S. homicide rates are at a 50 year low according to the FBI, despite what some people believe instead of reality:

 

 

Lots more guns per capita....but fewer homicides per capita.   

 

There were still over 13,000 killings by guns in the U.S. in 2015.  The point is the numbers are out of sight.

The U.S. needs to respond to every possible cause of unnecessary deaths.  Assault rifles were used in four of the mass shootings in the past few years.   That is the first type of weapon that should be banned completely.   There is no rational argument for people owning or being able to buy assault rifles or automatic firearms.   The whole issue of people being able to own handguns needs to be examined.  I wonder how many youth in the major cities have handguns, or young people involved in gangs and the drug culture.  That's another area to deal with.

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10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's right, and maybe even going lower, because the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides and involve hand guns, not "assault rifles". 

U.S. homicide rates are at a 50 year low according to the FBI, despite what some people believe instead of reality:

 

 

Lots more guns per capita....but fewer homicides per capita.   

 

If we saw the mental state of some of the people that are allowed to own handguns, or walking around with them in cities, we would probably he horrified.

Big money from the NRA is what controls many elected legislators.  Money is what calls the "shots".

Edited by blackbird
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23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's right, and maybe even going lower, because the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides and involve hand guns, not "assault rifles". 

U.S. homicide rates are at a 50 year low according to the FBI, despite what some people believe instead of reality:

 

 

Lots more guns per capita....but fewer homicides per capita.   

 

A lot to do with individual state gun control laws

Edited by Kerfuffle
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17 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There were still over 13,000 killings by guns in the U.S. in 2015.  The point is the numbers are out of sight.

 

No, the numbers are actually falling..lowest rate in 50 years...with more guns in possession.

 

Quote

The U.S. needs to respond to every possible cause of unnecessary deaths.  Assault rifles were used in four of the mass shootings in the past few years.   That is the first type of weapon that should be banned completely.   There is no rational argument for people owning or being able to buy assault rifles or automatic firearms.   The whole issue of people being able to own handguns needs to be examined.  I wonder how many youth in the major cities have handguns, or young people involved in gangs and the drug culture.  That's another area to deal with.

 

If they legally own such firearms, it is their constitutional right to do so, regardless of "gun deaths".

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Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, the numbers are actually falling..lowest rate in 50 years...with more guns in possession.

 

 

If they legally own such firearms, it is their constitutional right to do so, regardless of "gun deaths".

Yes they have fallen...because of the states that brought in gun control laws have seen reduced gun deaths....its not because there are more guns.

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No matter how many times I present the facts on the ground (gun deaths by handguns vs. "assault rifles", declining gun homicides overall, more guns per capita, etc.), some people insist on focusing their attention on banning rifles that are only involved in a small fraction of homicides.

...but that's how the gun grabbers have always been.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

some people insist on focusing their attention on banning rifles that are only involved in a small fraction of homicides.

Yes, assault rifles are only a small part of the problem. I agree that handguns are a much more serious issue, although one does not negate the other.

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Funny how anyone who feels assault weapons should be protected by the second amendment can never make an argument why the second amendment doesn't apply to nukes. That's an argument they cower from and try desperately to avoid. Ask it and they start creating Twitter posts about how you're an actor being paid by Soros, because they know they're completely out of their depth. :lol:

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28 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If we saw the mental state of some of the people that are allowed to own handguns, or walking around with them in cities, we would probably he horrified.

Big money from the NRA is what controls many elected legislators.  Money is what calls the "shots".

 

Some may be, but lots of sane people commit homicides.

Big money is part of all American politics (Canada too).

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12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Some may be, but lots of sane people commit homicides.

Big money is part of all American politics (Canada too).

No.  In Canada in Federal politics, federal parties and candidates cannot receive money from organizations, corporations, or unions.  All donations must come from individuals and is limited to about $1300 per year and the same amount to a candidate's election campaign.  There are no donations from a gun lobby.  In the U.S. the NRA provides millions of dollars to politicians they choose.  Not in Canada.

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18 minutes ago, LonJowett said:

Funny how anyone who feels assault weapons should be protected by the second amendment can never make an argument why the second amendment doesn't apply to nukes. That's an argument they cower from and try desperately to avoid. Ask it and they start creating Twitter posts about how you're an actor being paid by Soros, because they know they're completely out of their depth. :lol:

 

No they don't....only desperate gun grabbers make that kind of argument.

Guns have killed far more people than "nukes" ?

 

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