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The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!


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The Second Amendment has merely created a means through which violent people can obtain lethal ordnance and act on their dark intentions.   The Second Amendment is a failed amendment – a hopeless

Funny how anyone who feels assault weapons should be protected by the second amendment can never make an argument why the second amendment doesn't apply to nukes. That's an argument they cower from an

Beats me as to why anyone would want to own any type of gun other than a six shooter or a hunting rifle is beyond me. What more does the average American or Canadian need to protect themselves from ha

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12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Sure, but not for crazy people, or criminals. The black market for guns will then be huuuge. My argument is you would end up with law abiding citizens like teachers no longer carrying guns. The people who want to commit mass murder will still get the weapons they need. There might be an argument that the removal of guns from everyday life would reduce gun violence committed by acts of passion, but that's not the current debate.

Didn't somebody post on here the elimination of a huge number of guns in Australia and a corresponding drop in gun killings or am I just imagining seeing it?

They could start by collecting all automatic weapons from society and banning them completely.  I'm sure that would make a difference.  But first they are going to have to elect a congress that is on side.   That will be a tall order.

 

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2 minutes ago, Omni said:

I don't make the stats, I just report them to make my point. You are free to attempt to refute them if you wish.

No need to refute your link. No one is saying "let's do nothing about the killings". What you posted is just a deflection of the actual point we were discussing. More pointless garbage from you.

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12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Whatever works for you in Canada...as long as we get to keep guns and buy even more guns.

Even the Hamburger Helper in Canada is American...in two official languages !

Gun laws work for us in Canada. But you know that from your ever presence listening to and quoting CBC. 

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8 hours ago, Omni said:

My little research tells me 3/4 of teachers surveyed in the US don't want to be armed. One particular teacher interviewed after Trump's latest ridiculous rantings said while he is a gun owner with a long gun and a pistol, he would not carry a gun into the classroom. Many do agree armed guards are a much saner idea.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/27/politics/teacher-guns-survey/index.html

Isn't there a significant number of teachers that are assaulted in schools?  Add guns to the mix will not work well.

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8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Didn't somebody post on here the elimination of a huge number of guns in Australia and a corresponding drop in gun killings or am I just imagining seeing it?

After a mass murder in 1996, they enacted legislation to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and confiscated over a half million of them. The gun homicide rate has decreased 42%; Australia has one of the lowest homicide rates of all. More significantly gun suicide rate decreased 57%. Here is a review from Harvard.

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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Isn't there a significant number of teachers that are assaulted in schools?  Add guns to the mix will not work well.

I haven't looked into the numbers of such assaults. However according to what I have researched it seems not enough to make teachers want to pack guns. Can you imagine being a public school teacher in front of a class announcing today we will discuss domestic social issues while your 45 is dangling from your belt?

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1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Didn't somebody post on here the elimination of a huge number of guns in Australia and a corresponding drop in gun killings or am I just imagining seeing it?

They could start by collecting all automatic weapons from society and banning them completely.  I'm sure that would make a difference.  But first they are going to have to elect a congress that is on side.   That will be a tall order.

 

I don't recall seeing that discussed here, but I have heard of it. While at face value it seems the most sensible thing to do, it is politically practically impossible, as you have alluded, IE "That will be a tall order". If it ever happens, it is not going to happen any time soon.

So that leaves people with the dilemma, what else is there to do? In what seems to be the most bizarre of solutions, it is to increase the presence of even MORE guns. Much like in a situation of war, when there is a real threat, choices become limited. Then the only option is to choose the lessor evil

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5 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

After a mass murder in 1996, they enacted legislation to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and confiscated over a half million of them. The gun homicide rate has decreased 42%; Australia has one of the lowest homicide rates of all. More significantly gun suicide rate decreased 57%. Here is a review from Harvard.

and what could be more convincing I wonder?

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3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

After a mass murder in 1996, they enacted legislation to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and confiscated over a half million of them. The gun homicide rate has decreased 42%; Australia has one of the lowest homicide rates of all. More significantly gun suicide rate decreased 57%. Here is a review from Harvard.

 

That's nice....Americans have increased gun ownership, and the gun homicide rate is also down...way down to 30 year lows.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's nice....Americans have increased gun ownership, and the gun homicide rate is also down...way down to 30 year lows.

Compared to every other major country, America is like living in a war zone. Gun homicides in the US are 10 times that of Canada, 20 times that of Australia, and 40 times that of the UK.

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22 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Compared to every other major country, America is like living in a war zone. Gun homicides in the US are 10 times that of Canada, 20 times that of Australia, and 40 times that of the UK.

 

Mexico is a major country...has a higher gun homicide rate than the U.S.

Brazil is a major country...has a higher gun homicide rate than the U.S.

Russia is a major country....

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

Homicide rate in the U.K actually increased with more gun control.

Homicide-Rates-for-Developed-Countries-O

https://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/

 

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14 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Compared to every other major country, America is like living in a war zone. Gun homicides in the US are 10 times that of Canada, 20 times that of Australia, and 40 times that of the UK.

Complete bullshit!  Take out gang violence (Chicago, Baltimore etc.) and the US is really no more dangerous than any other country. 

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3 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, nearly 28% say "likely"?  Yeah, that's good enough.

 

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

More than good enough. Evidently the ability to add, let alone use reason are not typical leftist traits.

 

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yep, as well as questionable math, logic, reading comprehension skills...

 

So, does this little back and forth really sum up how the majority of right-wingers think about things and draw their conclusions? 

 

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18 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Complete bullshit!  Take out gang violence (Chicago, Baltimore etc.) and the US is really no more dangerous than any other country. 

How do you propose to take it out when it actually exists? I'll get the popcorn.

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11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Higher gun homicide rates do not positively correlate with higher gun ownership in the United States compared to other OECD nations / data sets:

Yep, we have a lot of guns up here in Canada. How come you guys are using them so often to shoot each other?

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

So, does this little back and forth really sum up how the majority of right-wingers think about things and draw their conclusions? 

I don't know. I do not speak for the masses. Using actual facts to back up an argument is good though, wouldn't you agree?

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't know. I do not speak for the masses. Using actual facts to back up an argument is good though, wouldn't you agree?

Not the way you and Hal use facts. And while my question was not directed at you the silence of the masses suggests you are fairly representative.

   

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11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Mexico is a major country...has a higher gun homicide rate than the U.S.

Brazil is a major country...has a higher gun homicide rate than the U.S.

Russia is a major country....

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

Homicide rate in the U.K actually increased with more gun control.

Homicide-Rates-for-Developed-Countries-O

https://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/

 

 I think the US has about 30 times the rate of gun deaths of the UK.  The countries you point out as being bad, Russia, Mexico, and Brazil are bad choices because they in drug wars or in some anarchy and not models of anything.  Again you lose on that comparison.

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13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't recall seeing that discussed here, but I have heard of it. While at face value it seems the most sensible thing to do, it is politically practically impossible, as you have alluded, IE "That will be a tall order". If it ever happens, it is not going to happen any time soon.

So that leaves people with the dilemma, what else is there to do? In what seems to be the most bizarre of solutions, it is to increase the presence of even MORE guns. Much like in a situation of war, when there is a real threat, choices become limited. Then the only option is to choose the lessor evil

People can work on changing the system and politicians but that must be considered a very long-term goal.  In the meantime, better prepare for continuation of around 14,000 gun deaths a year and over 20,000 injuries, even with no war.  That will continue as a fact of life.   

In the meantime, Canada can continue to confiscate any illegal firearms being brought across the border and try to confiscate illegal handguns in Canada.

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