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California Judge Rules In Favor Of Christian

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4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

They could, but that would be inaccurate.

Not really.  What if the lesbian couple wants 200 cupcakes for their wedding?  Or 6 dozen cookies for their LGBQT meeting?

Do they ask everybody what their purchases are going to be used for?

Edited by Goddess

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1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

Because they're not refusing service, they're refusing a service - big difference

But only to certain people.

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Just now, Goddess said:

But only to certain people.

No, they are refusing a service - plain and simple.  If a straight person asked for a gay wedding cake, they'd get the same answer. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

No, they are refusing a service - plain and simple.  If a straight person asked for a gay wedding cake, they'd get the same answer. 

 

So a gay couple couldn't send in a straight freind to buy the cake.  Which means they are still discriminating against gays.

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1 hour ago, Omni said:

So you're suggesting that all religions, including Christianity should be equally as discriminatory.

Am I?  I suppose I am!  Well, I'm nothing if not a fair minded equality all round kind of guy.

Do you disagree?

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No, they bake specialty item for certain occasions and have chosen what occasions those are.  They are not discriminating against any person.

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It's illegal to discriminate against a person or group of people - but that was not done here.  The baker discriminated against an idea or personal belief.  It's not illegal to discriminate against an idea, we do all the time, all of us, with every decision we make.  We discriminate against the Leafs or Canucks, we discriminate against country music, gospel or rap, we can discriminate against Chevy or Ford, and especially Dodge!. 

A person can choose what services they offer or refuse to offer, they can't refuse service of a person or group based on discrimination. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

It's illegal to discriminate against a person or group of people - but that was not done here.  The baker discriminated against an idea or personal belief.  It's not illegal to discriminate against an idea, we do all the time, all of us, with every decision we make.  We discriminate against the Leafs or Canucks, we discriminate against country music, gospel or rap, we can discriminate against Chevy or Ford, and especially Dodge!. 

A person can choose what services they offer or refuse to offer, they can't refuse service of a person or group based on discrimination. 

 

Wow, you've really tied yourself all up into knots with this spin Hal!  Good on ya!

:lol:

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21 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Wow, you've really tied yourself all up into knots with this spin Hal!  Good on ya!

:lol:

How so?  I made that post over an hour ago, surely if it didn't make common sense, somebody would've come forward with a concrete argument.  Maybe you can explain where I'm wrong.

Edited by Hal 9000

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6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

A Catholic should be able to refuse to make cakes for non-Catholic weddings also, since those are not regarded as real weddings in the eyes of the Church.

 Everyone should have the right to make a cake or not make a cake for whomever they wish.

 

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

But, F*[email protected] everyone else's consciences?

I don't believe religious rights should trump human rights. 

 

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

The occasion is a wedding.  Obviously they are not refusing because it will be used in a wedding.  

They are refusing because they have determined that the couple are sinners and don't deserve to be served.

Goddess, you don't understand the bible.   It's the same as doctor-assisted suicide or abortion.  You can't ask someone who disagrees with those things on religious grounds to help you perform doctor-assisted suicide or abortion on someone.  That makes the person helping complicit.

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8 hours ago, LonJowett said:

If you discriminate against someone by refusing to do business with them, it is not "disagreeing with some practice or belief." It's also not practising your religion. It's discrimination. Unless, perhaps, you refuse to do business with all sinners equally.  

You worship the left Marxist idea of "equality without discrimination of all things LGBT" but the world actually discriminates against countless things and countless people for a million different reasons.  Depending where you live, you will not have the same medical facilities as someone in a city who lives close to a big hospital with all kinds of the latest medical equipment and specialists.  If you are in a small town you might not even have your own doctor.  You might have to go to a walk-in clinic or drive a 100 km.  That's discrimination right there.

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3 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Because they're not refusing service, they're refusing a service - big difference

Now there's a feeble attempt at spin if ever I heard one. She is refusing service to people because of her religion. 

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1 hour ago, Hal 9000 said:

How so?  I made that post over an hour ago, surely if it didn't make common sense, somebody would've come forward with a concrete argument.  Maybe you can explain where I'm wrong.

Your opening statement lays the groundwork WCR refers to. A contradiction right off the bat.

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3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Am I?  I suppose I am!  Well, I'm nothing if not a fair minded equality all round kind of guy.

Do you disagree?

Admitting to being discriminatory blows fair minded off your agenda.

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9 minutes ago, Omni said:

Admitting to being discriminatory blows fair minded off your agenda.

You would insist a Muslim baker put Muhammad on your birthday cake?  You're brutal!  I had no idea...

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3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You would insist a Muslim baker put Muhammad on your birthday cake?  You're brutal!  I had no idea...

Sure. Wouldn't be a problem.

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35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 Everyone should have the right to make a cake or not make a cake for whomever they wish.

 

 

Goddess, you don't understand the bible.   It's the same as doctor-assisted suicide or abortion.  You can't ask someone who disagrees with those things on religious grounds to help you perform doctor-assisted suicide or abortion on someone.  That makes the person helping complicit.

No-one forces anyone to be a doctor.  Not in Canada, anyway.

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36 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No-one forces anyone to be a doctor.  Not in Canada, anyway.

That's true.  No doctor should be forced out of his profession after spending years of his life and money to become a doctor by some authoritarian government who wants to impose it's totalitarian ideology on society.   We also have a shortage of doctors in many towns and cannot afford to lose any doctors.  Trudeau is an authoritarian who is trying to impose his progressive ideology on society.  Probably inherited some Marxist leanings from his father who reportedly was somewhat that way.  Pierre Trudeau loved Castro and Communist dictatorships and shunned our traditional allies. 

  No doctor who disagrees with those things should be forced to perform them or aid them in some way.  Freedom of conscience must be respected.  

Edited by blackbird

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13 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That's true.  No doctor should be forced out of his profession after spending years of his life and money to become a doctor by some authoritarian government who wants to impose it's totalitarian ideology on society.   We also have a shortage of doctors in many towns and cannot afford to lose any doctors.  Trudeau is an authoritarian who is trying to impose his progressive ideology on society.  Probably inherited some Marxist leanings from his father who reportedly was somewhat that way.  Pierre Trudeau loved Castro and Communist dictatorships and shunned our traditional allies. 

  No doctor who disagrees with those things should be forced to perform them or aid them in some way.  Freedom of conscience must be respected.  

Freedom of conscience is assured by the availability of other jobs.  Sometimes one's conscience is a harsh mistress.

That said, forcing someone who no longer wants to live to take their own life by a means amateurish, painful and messy instead of allowing a medical professional to provide a peaceful and painless stop is what I would describe as authoritarian and totalitarian.  Tyrannical and dictatorial, as well.  Not to mention despotic, iron fisted and autocratic.

The right to end one's life is one of the most basic there is. 

That said, I would be happy for a doctor to refuse  to help if another were available to provide the mercy.

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1 hour ago, Omni said:

Now there's a feeble attempt at spin if ever I heard one. She is refusing service to people because of her religion. 

Refusing A service!  You still don't see the difference huh?

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Just now, Hal 9000 said:

Refusing A service!  You still don't see the difference huh?

Because of religion. You still don't see the connection do ya?

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Just now, Omni said:

Because of religion. You still don't see the connection do ya?

Well, Duh!  Of course it's because of her religion - that's never been in doubt. 

And, if she wasn't Christian, there's no way that this lesbian couple would've even asked for a wedding cake.

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